Driving standards

[Baby Deltic]

29 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Call yourself "Engineer", "Electrical Engineer" or "Mechanical Engineer" and see if that helps.... 

 

The trouble is they then ask what your annual mileage will be typically. If it is a second car, you might be able to say less than 10K. If they ask about any other vehicles you might drive or a company car its going to be over 40K easily. Therein begins the problem.

[Waverley West]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

If it's a 50/50 and the other party starts getting shirty, just prolong the argument as long as possible with the other party and insurance companies.

I had a similar situation with my wifes car after a supermarket car park altercation, manage to spin it out long enough for my wife to die from breast cancer, so there was only one loser, not that I am suggesting a similar outcome for yourself obviously, but playing insurance gobbledygook has a some what satisfying ring to it!

 

Mike.

 

A mischievous thought occurred to me earlier - I understand it's an offence to drive a vehicle without a driver's side mirror. Our aforementioned "other driver" was spotted this morning driving by without this mirror following yesterday's incident. I don't suppose for a second that she would see the irony in the first thing she said to Mrs WW being that she was "endangering the lives of her children".

 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/98355/is-driving-without-a-wing-mirror-illegal-

 

Would it be wrong of me to photograph her vehicle passing by without said mirror tomorrow morning?  

 

Mrs WW is currently using my car to avoid the issue.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Waverley West

[PhilJ W]

The old adage about after a car accident is to never admit liability, even if it is your fault. 

[Baby Deltic]

Never apologise either.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Baby Deltic said:

Never apologise either.

 

Legally an apology doesn't constitute an admission of guilt. That came up in Prince Phillip's little incident recently.

[JDW]

6 hours ago, Waverley West said:

 

A mischievous thought occurred to me earlier - I understand it's an offence to drive a vehicle without a driver's side mirror. Our aforementioned "other driver" was spotted this morning driving by without this mirror following yesterday's incident. I don't suppose for a second that she would see the irony in the first thing she said to Mrs WW being that she was "endangering the lives of her children".

 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/98355/is-driving-without-a-wing-mirror-illegal-

 

Would it be wrong of me to photograph her vehicle passing by without said mirror tomorrow morning?  

 

Mrs WW is currently using my car to avoid the issue.

 

 

 

This reminded me that I came up against one such numpty a few years back.  Approaching a give way junction, driving a nice easy-to-spot bus, traffic on the main road was queuing across the junction.  Traffic holds back to let me out (I was turning right) and as I emerge I'm confronted by a very irate woman coming down the right hand side of the "parked vehicles" towards me.  She was very indignant about my driving having endangered her disabled child, and even sat and phoned my employers to get them to make me reverse out of her way.  Needless to say, I didn't...  There's just no getting through to them sometimes. 

 

back on topic, I'm sure having a pic of her driving without the mirror would come in handy of she did  try and pursue you for anything, although as you say, it's unlikely.

[polybear]

On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 15:28, geoffers said:

Did your wife and the other lady swap insurance details? If not ask yourself why. Does this mean the other cars not car insured? I would probably contact my own insurance company and inform them and forward any bill/correspondence to them and let them deal with it. If you have the other cars registration number you could check on the dvlc site to see if they were insured or not.

 

It's worth noting that, even if the car is insured, it doesn't necessarily mean that she is insured to drive it.....

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

It's worth noting that, even if the car is insured, it doesn't necessarily mean that she is insured to drive it.....

I had problems with this after an accident many years ago. (Other drivers fault, he shot out of a side turning into the side of my car.) He was insured but not for the car he was driving though his insurance gave him legal cover. What complicated matters was that the other driver, the other vehicles owner were all insured with the same company. When I went to renew my insurance I found that I had lost some of my NCB. It didn't take long to sort out after I mentioned taking it up with my solicitors and the insurance company quickly backed down.

[ejstubbs]

A recurring minor irritation for me is people giving way unnecessarily.  It disrupts my flow and usually ends up being of little, if any, help to me.  Two examples from the other day are still fresh in my mind:

 

1) Waiting to turn right out of a side road, I looked right and saw two cars approaching, but at a distance and speed which meant that I could have moved out in front of them perfectly safely.  I then looked left and there was someone just about to pull out of a slightly offset turning on the opposite side of the road, to go in the same direction I was intending to go - so they were turning left.  On the principle that someone turning left takes priority over someone turning right, and since I didn't know how quickly they would accelerate after joining the main road, I waited for them.  As I watched them complete their manoeuvre and go on their way quite sedately, it occurred to me that the cars approaching from my right should be about to pass in front of me as well, so I should be able to complete my own manoeuvre safely within a few more seconds.  On checking to my right, though, I found that the lead car of the two had slowed to sub-walking speed, and the driver was frantically flashing for me to go.  Which was very nice of them and all, but it meant that I had to re-set the timing clock in my brain, and check again to both left and right to make sure that the road was otherwise still clear (and that the driver of the second car approaching from my right hadn't got frustrated with the driver of the first car and decided to overtake them) before I was able safely to complete my turn.  If the driver unexpectedly giving way to me had just carried on as they were then I'd have been able to move safely out after the two cars had passed having had to wait maybe one whole second.  As it was, they delayed both themselves and the driver behind, they confused and then flustered me - and I still didn't get out of the junction any sooner than I would have done if they hadn't tried to be unnecessarily helpful.

 

2) Approaching this mini-roundabout from the south, intending to go straight on, I saw a bus approaching from the north, and nearer to the junction than I was.  From the route number I knew that the bus would be turning right, so I slowed down in preparation to give way to it.  I had been aware of a car approaching the junction from the west, but my focus up to that point was on the bus as it was the vehicle having right of way over me.  I then noticed that the bus was slowing as well, so I checked the car approaching from my left and saw that they were indicating right, and the bus was obviously giving way to them.  No problem: I could therefore safely proceed across the roundabout after the right-turning car had cleared my exit from the roundabout as they executed their right turn.  Except that they then stopped in the middle of the junction to give way to the bus.  Except, of course, that I was now - through no fault of my own - unable to clear the roundabout because the other car was in the way, thus leaving me in the way of the bus.  Fortunately I was able to squeeze carefully past the rear of the other car to clear the way for the bus, otherwise we could have been there a while...  In this instance, not only was the driver of the car giving way unnecessarily but they actually created a potentially dangerous situation, if the bus driver hadn't been awake to the fact that I had already, and perfectly legitimately, moved on to the roundabout.

 

Don't get me wrong: I do very much appreciate people letting me out at busy junctions, or in other situations where I might otherwise be stuck for a fair while.  But being "let out" when it's actually the person being over-considerate who delays me is (in a small way) frustrating - and can be dangerous precisely because it's not expected behaviour.

[Reorte]

18 hours ago, JDW said:

 Traffic holds back to let me out (I was turning right) and as I emerge I'm confronted by a very irate woman coming down the right hand side of the "parked vehicles" towards me.

Parked vehicles... Reminds me of the time I was sat in a queue that didn't seem to be moving much, and I was wondering why the lane next to me was moving OK. Eventually I realised I'd stopped behind a row of parked cars...

[JDW]

I can think of at least one place where I've had multiple trainee bus drivers do exactly that the junction up ahead has two lanes, but there are parking spaces on the left before it.  If the left turn has cars right up to the parking spaces, especially when they're concentrating on trying to learn the route, the fares, and listening to me, it's common for them to aim to pull up in the queue behind the parked cars...

 

I have some sympathy with @ejstubbs's post, I think it comes down to a lack of general awareness.  Sometimes it is the right thing to do of course, but it's utterly pointless (but frustratingly common) for the last car in a long string of vehicles to stop and let you out, when if they'd continued, you could just have gone behind them.  Another personal irritation is people who treat traffic islands as pedestrian crossings and stop if there's someone waiting to cross.  Some of my [bus] trainees were surprised when they did something like that and I suggested they shouldn't, because as nice as it is to be nice, in reality there's nothing to say that the cyclist behind won't carry on up your nearside, or a motorcyclist overtake you and nip in between you and the island, at the same time as the pedestrians start to cross.  Of course, they will assume that it's safe because you've stopped, and neither they not the motor/cyclist can see each other because you've just parked a great big bus blocking everyone's view.  Sadly, my view that [in moving traffic] it is more dangerous to stop and be courteous than drive on and leave them to cross with a clear view in both directions comes from experience rather than any kind of "I think it should be like this" opinion or "Health and Safety" rules.  

[polybear]

4 hours ago, Reorte said:

Parked vehicles... Reminds me of the time I was sat in a queue that didn't seem to be moving much, and I was wondering why the lane next to me was moving OK. Eventually I realised I'd stopped behind a row of parked cars...

 

A good friend of mine (RIP Gordon) was a London Bus Driver many, many years ago when London Smog was all the rage.  He was driving one night when the smog was very bad; a car was following the Bus as it had better lights.  When the car driver noticed that the Bus hadn't moved for quite some time he got out to investigate.  Bus and car were inside the Bus Garage....

[johnarcher]

6 hours ago, Reorte said:

Parked vehicles... Reminds me of the time I was sat in a queue that didn't seem to be moving much, and I was wondering why the lane next to me was moving OK. Eventually I realised I'd stopped behind a row of parked cars...

I knew someone who failed their driving test doing that - the examiner had to point out the situation to them and suggest they pulled out and got going.

[Bill]

On 26/02/2019 at 11:20, PhilJ W said:

The old adage about after a car accident is to never admit liability, even if it is your fault. 

 

But some take this 'admitting guilt' a little bit too far...

 

I was exiting the multi-story car park of our local hospital.

When the car in front overshot the down ramp. 

He stopped and then to my and my wife's utter horror began backing up.

The driver had given no thought to the fact that there might be another car behind his. 

(Or like many, had no use for his rear view mirror.)

Next  came the inevitable, 'BANG' ...

I got out and was confronted by an irate and his equally abusive harridan of a wife.

Who to my complete amazement both began screaming at me for rear-ending their car.

 

You just can't make this stuff up...

 

I now own and use a dash-cam...

 

[Coryton]

On 11/02/2019 at 11:07, big jim said:

if one person is willing to stand up to such a nasty bastard to show him he cant get away with it (despite shooting myself in the foot) he may think twice about his driving (probably not in reality, lets be honest!)

 

Prib

[Waverley West]

On 25/02/2019 at 15:18, Waverley West said:

 

This morning, Mrs WW was on her way to work when she passed another car coming the other way. Unfortunately, their wing mirrors clipped and minor damage was done to both mirrors. Both cars were moving at the time of the collision, neither at excessive speed. The other driver got out of the car and was initially unpleasantly aggressive towards Mrs WW.  After a while she seemed to calm down a little but claimed that Mrs WW was over on her side of the road. There is no white line down the middle of the road at the scene and the road is really only just wide enough for two cars to pass. It seems to be a pretty clear-cut case of claim and counterclaim with no proof either way. 

 

The other driver seemed to realise it would not be a good idea to claim via her insurance, but strongly implied she would be sending us the bill, After initially saying "I'm sorry", Mrs WW recovered her composure and calmly said she wasn't sure who if anyone was at fault.

 

 

Hi guys,

 

Just a quick update on this. We had a phone call from the other driver's husband this morning. They've decided to go via their insurance company.

 

I'm struggling to understand the sense in what they're doing. The other car is a 2008 Seat Alhambra, so presumably a new wing mirror is not exactly going to cost the earth.

 

We're not accepting liability in an incident for which there is no other evidence other than the drivers' respective words.

 

Am I missing something or does this just not make sense?

 

Dave

 

 

[Nick C]

You're not missing anything, it really doesn't make sense. They obviously think your wife was at fault and they'll get the full claim. They won't, the insurance will almost certainly go 50/50, and their excess will probably be more than the cost of the new mirror - so instead of putting it down to experience and spending 50 quid on a second-hand mirror, they'll spend most of their excess and put their premiums up next year. Sadly they'll also put yours up too...

[Waverley West]

I can well imagine the tale told by the driver to her husband, about Mrs WW being right across on her side of the road.

 

Given that the road is only around 4m wide at the point of impact and assuming the two cars are each around 1.8-1.9m wide, if Mrs WW had been "right over on the other side of the road", the result would have been a major collision, rather than a 2cm overlap between two mirrors as evidenced by the extent of the damage to our wing mirror. 

 

Hey ho.

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Waverley West

[duncan]

or a substantial amount of the country on the underside & nearside of the car

[alastairq]

On 26/02/2019 at 12:54, Waverley West said:

What is very noticeable is that the more expensive the car, the more likely they are to just remain stationary while you squeeze past, knowing full well that any contact will be your fault. 

 I will tend to do that anyway......

If the oncoming vehicle isn't looking like it's slowing , or isn't looking like it's prepared to carefully pass me, on a narrow carriageway.

I don't even attempt to put wheels on the grass, if they don't look willing to do so....If they slow, and look like they're prepared to go on the verge [and especially if they are in a normal motorcar]....then, I will take to the verge. Otherwise, the room they have left [whilst I deem it adequate] is exactly what they've got to play with.

I am fed up with those who drive about on narrow roads, expecting others to 'get out of their way'.....with no intention of attempting to do so themselves.

My daily driver is a Fourtrak......so a mirror clout will usually end up with their bits all over the road....

A dashcam is a useful aid in these circumstances.  Although totally pointless in the Dellow [see avatar?]....even though the Dellow actually has a supreme off-tarmac ability....which is often demonstrated....Pointless due to the vibrations and screen shake...even my retinas can detach at 60 mph! One other advantage is, the Dellow is narrow.........so I can  charge around the streets locally, not having to 'give way' as I can keep to the left of the marked centre line........unlike the obese panzer-lookalikes that infest the roads these days....who seem to have forgotten that, if any part of a vehicle is across that marked centre-line, the vehicle is in a potential 'give way' situation regarding oncoming traffic.....

Rantover, I'm retired now!!

Edited February 28, 2019 by alastairq

[melmerby]

On 27/02/2019 at 10:01, PhilJ W said:

 When I went to renew my insurance I found that I had lost some of my NCB. It didn't take long to sort out after I mentioned taking it up with my solicitors and the insurance company quickly backed down.

Note

It is a " No Claim Bonus" not a No Blame Bonus and as such the insurance company needn't have backed down unless it clearly states in the policy details that it will not penalise you  in a no blame situation.

They normally do cover those costs, but I found one company in particular, difficult to deal with - AXA. They expect you to do all the leg work. I had to sue another driver in the small claims court to get back the cost of some damage in a no blame accident.

AXA wouldn't do it themselves, needless to say I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole now. I still lost two days annual leave for the two appearances in front of the beak.

Edited February 28, 2019 by melmerby
Missing words changed meaning!

[Happy Hippo]

I will relate a case of wing mirror clashing, where the insurance claim just vapourized and I heard no more about it.

 

Way back in 1994 and in the process of retiring form the Army, I was driving along one of the roads in the National sports Centre at Lilleshall (Shropshire) in a Fiat Tipo, when a Ford Escort coming the other way at a fair old lick, collided with the Fiat.

 

Now people may laugh about Fiat cars but this Tipo was a tough old bird and the os door mirror, flipped in and the lens cracked.  The Escort completely shed it's mirror.

 

I stopped and walked back to the Escort, picking up the mirror en route.  On presenting the mirror to the driver (female), I was greeted with accusation and a bit of abuse.  this was also fired at me by the two passengers (also female).

 

After quite a bit of what is best described as bluster and lip, where they refused to disclose identity or and form of contact details, I offered to call the police.

 

At this point I was informed the vehicle was  a military car, so being well versed with MT procedures, I asked for the driver's work ticket so she could fill out the FMT3 accident report form.

 

This was declined, so having no details apart from the car registration and having  given all my details pointed out that the damage to my car was merely a cracked lens. I suggested that  her reluctance to pass on her details any repercussions would probably be on her.

 

I then left the scene and drove home.

 

On arrival at home,and not being a trusting soul, I contacted the local RMP detachment.  It must have been a slack night because 30 minutes later they were knocking on the door.

 

Funnily enough, I knew the Ssgt, whom after accepting the offer of coffee, asked how my garden railway was doing!

 

By the time we'd had a chat, drunk more coffee, taken pictures of the damage to my car etc, his Cpl came back to report that the car was sitting in the MT shed at Mill Hill (London). She must have driven quite quickly to cover the distance in the time!

 

The next day I get a quite abrupt and rather rude telephone call from the orderly room at Mill Hill, demanding various details, including the fact that I was an officer of field rank, the the call ended with the immortal words: ' We'll be in touch Mate!'

 

Disappointed with the decorum displayed by this WRAC NCO, I finally lost my temper.  Pulled out my old military phone directory and rang the Adjutant at Mill Hill. Having held the same type of post in the past, I know he was well aware at how older officers get extremely grumpy and miserable.  Of course I was charmingly polite, but pointed out that his orderly room staff could do with a bit  of relationship interface training.

 

I then sat back, had a cup of tea, and just imagined the sh*t storm going on at Mill Hill.

 

About 15 minutes later, the telephone rang and a very apologetic Cpl was on the line.  I thanked her and rather pointedly remarked that when she said 'we'll be in touch mate', she probably didn't realize how soon and how personally that was going to be.

 

Anyhow, about a week later I get a call form my friendly RMP Ssgt, whom informed me that the driver of the vehicle was driving without authority, and had taken the vehicle without permission on a non duty trip to see a friend.  Her CO had been rather displeased with this, and because of the various factors in the offence had awarded her 28 days detention at the MCTC (Army nick) at Colchester.

 

Sometimes the wheels of military administration grind quite slowly, and about a month later I receive a load of paperwork about the accident, basically accusing me of causing the collision.  I informed my insurance company, whom had been kept fully informed of the ongoing saga, and told them that I would forward on the paperwork to them, but on this occasion I would be ringing the number on the covering letter.

 

I rang the number and explained the fate of the military driver, and asked how under the circumstances I could possibly be liable?  'We'll get back to you Sir'.

 

I'm still waiting!

 

Since my premium actually went down the following year and my protected NCB remained in tact I can only assume the case was quietly dropped. 

 

 

 

[melmerby]

Tonight whilst travelling home on the bus I spotted a car being driven a little erratically in the opposite direction in traffic.

As it passed i noticed the driver was holding a container with food in it in his left hand and was scooping said food out with a spoon in his right hand.

I assume he was steering with his knees as there wasn't a passenger to do it for him.

The Car? A BMW, however it was covered in little scrapes and knocks so I assume that was his normal driving method.

 

[TheQ]

7 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Tonight whilst travelling home on the bus I spotted a car being driven a little erratically in the opposite direction in traffic.

As it passed i noticed the driver was holding a container with food in it in his left hand and was scooping said food out with a spoon in his right hand.

I assume he was steering with his knees as there wasn't a passenger to do it for him.

The Car? A BMW, however it was covered in little scrapes and knocks so I assume that was his normal driving method.

 

Where is the worrying button? 

[petethemole]

A few years ago while walking back from the shops I was passed by a large(ish) saloon car driving well over 30 and way too fast for that particular bit of urban road; the driver was eating chips.  A police car with blues on was following it but not closely. The road there curves to the left and narrows. The lead car went out of sight, immediately followed by the sound of a collision. When I reached it  the car had clearly run wide and hit an oncoming van. The driver was out of the car being interviewed by the police. His carton of chips was now on the back seat.