LNWR Glass Wagon

[Nick Holliday]

Confined to the house for six weeks, following a hip replacement, I thought I’d tackle my kit mountain.  For some reason I selected as a starter one of my more recent acquisitions, a Bill Bedford LNWR Glass Wagon, bought at ExpoEM this year, rather than pick something more appropriate for my LBSCR layout.  As it is an unusual vehicle, I decided to record the process, and post it here.

The kit itself comprises a moulded body, with a moulding containing the rest of the bodywork items, a fret for the excellent sprung chassis, moulded buffer housings with turned heads and fine springs, etchings for the various shackles and some fine chain to complete. Whilst there are some detailed instructions for the assembly of the shackles, I had to rely on his generic instructions on his website for the rest of the assembly, and the information in LNWR Wagons, Volume 1, was vital to complete the task.

 

The first thing was to clean the thin flash off the mouldings, together with a few pips that had appeared.  This was easily done with a sharp scalpel and a bit of filling.  I am not sure of the materials used, so I assembled everything with Hafixs super glue, which worked very effectively.

The buffer heads needed some turning pips removed, and I probably spoiled the springing with some over-zealous drilling out of the buffer stock, so they have ended up solid, which is a pity but I am not entirely convinced of the benefits anyway, as they don’t really behave like the prototype, in my opinion.

Creating the shackles and turnbuckles was a time consuming nightmare, due to my inherent clumsiness trying to make maximum use of the fine chain.  Eventually everything was assembled and installed, but this all took much longer than the rest of the kit! Everything else fitted very well, apart from a couple of items. As there were only three hooks on the etching and I felt I needed four, I made use of some spare PC Models etched screw coupling frets which also supplied some additional shackles, and I made a couple of the chains longer than the instructions stated, since I didn’t think they would actually reach across the wagon otherwise.  If I were to tackle another glass wagon, I might consider investigating a more user friendly source, such as Ambis and Roxey provide, although there would still be a lot of chain involved.  The assembled chains were blackened with Carrs’ Metal Black to minimise the need for painting later.

 

The etched chassis went together well, once I realised that a) the springing units could slide along the wire, allowing the wheelbase to be adjusted to match the w-irons, and b ) it was easier to have the ears that retain the spring wire bent slightly away from the w-iron, allowing the wire to be slipped into place.  Both fairly obvious, with hindsight but not clear from the instructions. 

The base of the wagon moulding had ribs which should fit inside the hole in the etching, but there was a protrusion on the latter that meant that some of the ribs had to be removed to allow the etching to fit snugly on the floor.  This protrusion I think is to locate the moulded brake detail, but that had to be carved quite a bit to get it to fit where I thought it had to go.

I did encounter a minor problem with the brake lever.  The LNWR book had a detailed drawing and a high definition photograph, and there were differences between the two.  Unfortunately it would seem that the brake gear has been modelled on the photograph, whilst the lever follows the drawing, resulting in the lever being roughly a foot too long.  In order to get the bends in the right place, I cut the lever close to its fulcrum, and removed the necessary and glued the bits back together.  For the brake guide I substituted an Ambis etching, which I thought was slightly better than the one supplied, and the coupling links are a combination of Ambis and Maygib.

The completed wagon, with metal Gibson split spoke wheels, weighed in at around 14 grams, so I added another 30 grams with sheet lead glued to the underside, and it seems to run through a couple of P4 turnouts quite well.  If it needs extra weight this could be added by building a wooden packing case for the glass load, with more lead stuffed inside, but then I would have to try and get the shackles to work properly to retain it.

Altogether, an interesting and unusual wagon, which, apart from the shackles, was a delight to build.  It now needs painting and the addition of, as a very minimum, some LNWR diamonds, before entering service, whether I can source the glass traffic lettering is another matter.  I think I can justify its presence in the south east, but sightings of them on trains is extremely rare, especially the handful built by the LSWR and LBSCR, so I fear it may not see much use.

[garethashenden]

That looks very nice, but aren't the springs supposed to be separate for each bearing? IE 4 short springs instead of 2 long ones?

[ianmaccormac]

Nice one Nick! Hope the healing goes well.

Now lets see some of the Brighton ones!

Cheers

Ian, also off work but slowly getting better.

Edited August 31, 2015 by ianmaccormac

[Nick Holliday]

 

That looks very nice, but aren't the springs supposed to be separate for each bearing? IE 4 short springs instead of 2 long ones?

Possibly. I don't recall the instructions being that specific, and I thought the long spring would stay in place better. Would it make any difference on a two axle wagon?

[LNWR lives on]

The generic instructions look like it is a spring per bearing, not none across the wagon, but as the wire gets hidden behind the solebar it doesn't really matter either way

 

Just want to say thank you for the thread, will be invaluable when I come to attack my kit of this wagon

[jwealleans]

'Me too' - have one of these to tackle later this year (hopefully) and this will be invaluable.

[Poggy1165]

Very nice and unusual model. I think you can probably justify it. These wagons (and very similar GC ones) were despatched from St. Helens to places all over the country that needed sheet glass. So all you have to think of is some excuse for sheet glass to be needed in the area. A bit less likely in a small village than in a town perhaps. You are right though, pictures of them in trains are far from commonplace.

 

Actually, I have just thought of a question. Did builders merchants use to buy sheets of glass and cut them to size for small windows? Haven't a clue, to be honest. Just an example of how railway modelling can force one into researching all sorts of obscure questions.

[N15class]

 

 

Actually, I have just thought of a question. Did builders merchants use to buy sheets of glass and cut them to size for small windows? Haven't a clue, to be honest. Just an example of how railway modelling can force one into researching all sorts of obscure questions.

I would say probably not, but the local glazier would.

[LNWR lives on]

The lettering you require is on the LNWR PC sheet which is available from HMRS now I believe. Also has the diamonds on it

 

I have started having a go at mine and have to say the instructions leave a fair amount to be desired, you do have to figure out a fair bit for yourself, but it is a lovely wagon when its built, just need to try and paint it when the weather is in a kinder mood

[Fat Controller]

I would say probably not, but the local glazier would.

From many visits over the years, a glass merchant would buy in glass in large sheets, which would be cut to size to suit the customer's needs. Certain sizes became 'preferred', so the merchant would have these cut and ready; most glass merchants I've visited over the years have a large 'cullet' bin, where offcuts, and failed cuts, were thrown. 

These glass wagons would also carry, of course, the large sheets of 'plate glass', used in the increasing number of 'emporia' of the period.

All would have been delivered in large wooden cases, carefully secured.

[LNWR lives on]

See now this is something I am struggling with slightly, the large wooden cases, there is one sketched in on the drawing in LNWR Wagons 1, and the detail is there for how they secure the case to the wagon frame etc.

 

What I cant find out is how they would have lifted the case onto and off the wagon, did the case have lifting eyes in the corners somewhere or on the sides?

[Fat Controller]

See now this is something I am struggling with slightly, the large wooden cases, there is one sketched in on the drawing in LNWR Wagons 1, and the detail is there for how they secure the case to the wagon frame etc.

 

What I cant find out is how they would have lifted the case onto and off the wagon, did the case have lifting eyes in the corners somewhere or on the sides?

Probably using rope slings under the bottom of the load; the crates would have to be raised off the floor of the wagon with packing of some sort. None of the fancy devices they have on the current generation of glass-carrying (road) vehicles.

[billbedford]

Something else to concede on a loaded wagon, it seems the crates were always covered with a tarpaulin. presumably this would have to be put in place before the holding chains were attached.

[LNWR lives on]

That's an interesting comment Bill, where did you find that out?

 

Regards the packing off the wagon floor I would guess baulks of wood maybe?

[Fat Controller]

That's an interesting comment Bill, where did you find that out?

 

Regards the packing off the wagon floor I would guess baulks of wood maybe?

4" x 2"? It only needs to lift the crate enough to get a rope sling under it.

[MJI]

From many visits over the years, a glass merchant would buy in glass in large sheets, which would be cut to size to suit the customer's needs. Certain sizes became 'preferred', so the merchant would have these cut and ready; most glass merchants I've visited over the years have a large 'cullet' bin, where offcuts, and failed cuts, were thrown. 

These glass wagons would also carry, of course, the large sheets of 'plate glass', used in the increasing number of 'emporia' of the period.

All would have been delivered in large wooden cases, carefully secured.

 

Glass also changes so if it is too old it is difficult to break out cleanly.

[Penlan]

Looking at all the Diagram and GA's in Vol 1 - LNWR Wagons, I'm surprised there is no ribbing built into the floors to allow ropes to be placed under the crates, and there doesn't appear to be any lockers incorporated to house loose timbers either.

 

Conversely I suppose it's not a trip hazard if the timbers are left out, but they're a year or three before H&S.

[LNWR lives on]

At least I am reading the drawing the same as you Penlan, thats why I wondered if the cases had lifting eyes or something

[LNWR lives on]

Had anther look in the book and the first picture in the chapter does show tarpaulin covered cases on wagons so thats one bit answered

 

The bit i cant get my head around is that because its so specialised a traffic (the wagon would be useless for 99% of ther loads) if it was to be landed on timbers because of lifting ropes surely they would have have bolted timbers down or recessed the wagon floor. Think its time to study the text for all the wagons with a brew and see if that sheds any light on the matter 

[jwealleans]

Bit of a bump - this is my completed but unweathered wagon. I didn't take the option of laths on the floor, mainly so as to secure the crate more effectively.

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by jwealleans

[LNWR lives on]

Looking excellent

[Penlan]

I've decided to build my kit now, and the above has been very useful.
However, I feel the chains supplied are far to heavy, the prototype was 7/16" chain with 1" shackles.
I have decided to use a representation of the chain by twisting some fine wire, 4 strands in this example.
I forget who suggested this method originally, Guy Williams, Ian Rice or ............. But thanks.

 

 

 

I also wanted to use the 'grippers a little higher up my glass package, so I've removed the 'blocks' and will replace them in a better place with pieces of plastikard.  Needs a bit of tidying up still.....
I haven't released the side arms yet from the moulding, but on the prototype, they went through the floor and down behind the solebars, not to the inside face of the raised sides.  Once released they may spring back to the correct place, but there's no marks on the floor for locations.

 

 

The Shackles etc., etch supplied are far to big, and although I've looked at this other fret shown (it has the markings SH-2 on it - I'm not sure where it originates from), I'm tempted to look for something finer - 2mm scale?
I feel these smaller hooks on the SH-2 fret are the same overall size, but finer, than the PC etches for coach couplings.

 

BTW, what is this on the moulding frame?



I've already made my crate, but originally 4mm to high, wouldn't go under the loading gauge ....
That's why the framing's unequal.  NO, there's no record that Pilkington's had labels like this,

just a bit carried away be some of Mikkel's recent goodies.....

 

Finally looking at a couple of photo's recently, I believe the glass crate support  framework is a darker grey, if not black. 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Penlan

[Penlan]

The recommendation for attaching the chains is via handrail knobs - supplied.
They have a 0.77mm shank, the holes you should have opened up - following the instructions - are now 0.5mm dia.
I have some long, finer handrail knobs to hand, which allows me to place some of the stem in a mini-drill chuck and turn the rest down with a Swiss file. this is now 0.5mm dia.
My turned down one will now allow me to put the head hard against the framework.

Turned down Long , Long from my spares box, supplied with kit.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Penlan

[Penlan]

Further to the comment of the side strut location....
The end view shows it going down behind the solebar.

 

 

 

[Penlan]

Nick mentions the moulding's to the underside of the body, need tweaking to fit the etched axlegaurds, true, but as can be seen on Nick's assembled model, the etched axlegaurds don't line up with the bolt heads on the solebar, which ever way you place the etched chassis on - look especially at the RH alignment - using the moulding's as a guide under the body. Another adjustment required.

 

 

... and correcting the position, the axlegaurd's now line up with the bolt heads on the Solebars, the arrow shows how far off the guide moulding line is/was.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Penlan