david.hill64 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 With Malcolm simmering on Haymarket shed, it's time to start the next of David Allan's fleet. This is a V1 form the DJH/Piercy range. It comes in the sturdy DJH box. The etches are crisp and the castings good quality. I started by forming the coupling rods - 13 pieces per side - and whilst I was at it did the con rods. The instructions are interesting. Photos of completed sub assemblies with minimal words. We'll see how good that is as we go. They do include photos of the individual parts - I always like that - but no complete parts list. I have cut out the frames and embossed the rivets on the frame overlays. Photos to follow. Looking forward to this but I have a trip to Japan starting tomorrow so progress will be a bit slow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverstreak Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I'm looking forward to this build David as I have an unbuilt one gathering dust on top of the wardrobe Regards Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Mainframe assembly today. These have gone together well. Only one point to watch: fitting the etched overlay rivet detail part 84 requires there to be a gap between part 108 (rear dragbeam?) and the frames. To get this it is probably necessary to file a little from part 108 before you solder to the frames. I didn't do that and had to cut a slot with a razor saw. The instructions suggest tinning the frame detail overlay and frames to sweat together, but I think that nickel silver doesn't need tinning like that so I simply fluxed the area and let capillary action draw in the solder, running a hot iron along all of the seams including the axle bearing holes and plunger pick up holes. A work trip will take me away for a week or so, so no more updates for a while. Frame parts tabbed together. Then all soldered. I removed the frame spacer screws on one side, placed the overlay in position, refitted the screws to hold the overlay in place, then soldered. A couple of close ups of the rear where I had the small problem. And form under: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 After 2 weeks of travelling I have been happy to get back to the workbench. I started the kit at diagram 4 (coupling and connecting rods - part completed) and then moved on to diagram 2 for the frame assembly. I then decided it was on (or back?) to diagram 1 for the pony wheels. No problems here. I used a drill bit to ensure the axle bearings were aligned when I folded the etches. For the leading wheelset it is necessary to cut a little from one of the etches for axle bearing clearance. I will still need to remove some metal from the whitemetal castings to clear the axle washers. No issues with the rear. Having done that it is on to diagram 3 and fitting the axle bearings. The holes had to be enlarged with a broach. I think used the jogs and coupling rods to ensure that the bearings were in the right place, soldering them on the inside. When the wheels were added I was delighted to find that they all touched the ground at the same time. Always a relief on a rigid chassis! I am now going to start the body assembly as I want to be able to check the fit of the Slaters gearbox in the space available so I can get the correct orientation in the chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I found with the DJH 9F kits that you really have to study the drawings ( similar style of instructions ) closely to make sure that you didn't miss any parts out... Regards Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkallan Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Coming along nicely, David! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I will be watching this with interest, as I recently built the ACE model kits one. Looking good so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 I found with the DJH 9F kits that you really have to study the drawings ( similar style of instructions ) closely to make sure that you didn't miss any parts out... Regards Tony Completely agree. Looking at the drawings there are parts shown that are not referenced – for example the toolbox in the cab is shown but given no part number on the drawing. Perhaps it’s just the trainspotter in me but I would really have liked a parts list so I could cross off the bits as they were fitted. Last night I started on the body assembly but did not get very far. The instructions at the beginning of the section point out how essential it is to get everything square and then become somewhat obtuse, seeming to suggest that the front and rear spectacle plates have to be sweated together……It is not at all clear from the drawings how to start but I think I have it worked out. I am going to make sure that all of the main cab and tank members are cut out, cleaned, embossed, drilled and bent as required then have a full dry run before warming the iron. Care will have to be taken in bending the tank/cab sides. This is a job for a clear head. The instructions also suggest assembly on a flat surface, but this will be hindered by the locating tabs at the bottom of some etches so I think the thing to do will be to cut out the footplate, sellotape it to a strip of flat wood and use it as a jig. I will try to post step by step photos as I go along once soldering starts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 This evening worked out better than I thought. No soldering done, but at least the main components are ready to be stuck together. I thought that the rear spectacle plate should go behind the part that also forms the front spectacle plate and had it confirmed. To get an idea of how the parts would fit together, I first laid out teh unbent tank sides, spectacle plates and bunker rear on the unbent footplate using the locating tabs. I then formed the tank bends around some silver steel bar held in the vice, taking care to ensure squareness. This was then located onto the footplate and checked to ensure that the tank sides were parallel to and equidistant from the edge of the footplate and that the front of the tank was vertical. The same was done with the bunker rear and then everything held together to check that the fits are good. So far no problems. The first soldering job will be the front spectacle detail plate to the former, then the rear and then tack the sides and tank top on while everything is still lined up on the footplate. Once tacked I will remove the assembly from the footplate and solder properly from the inside of the tanks and bunker. I think I will probably use my 80W iron for this to get in and out quickly. I have an RSU back home and I think that this would have been ideal for laminating the spectacle plates onto the former as it would be possible to secure it in the centre of the plates. Never mind: I'll make do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 David, is that correct having the half etched lines on the top of the footplate at the front of the tanks? I have noticed that they don't go right to the edge, but one thing that I've found when you have these etched lines is that the curve can end up looking like threepenny bit (for you young ones it's a bit like a 20p coin with more flat sides) was it twelve? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 David, is that correct having the half etched lines on the top of the footplate at the front of the tanks? I have noticed that they don't go right to the edge, but one thing that I've found when you have these etched lines is that the curve can end up looking like threepenny bit (for you young ones it's a bit like a 20p coin with more flat sides) was it twelve? OzzyO. Yes it was 12 sided: I think the new £1 coin will be the same. A nice coin. I remember our conversation over a beer about the possibility of 'theepenny-bitting' when folding etches with reliefs. I hope we can do that again soon. Well spotted eagle eyes! It is correct: the underside of the etch contains the locations for the valences and buffer beams and also the etched relief lines for forming the bend. I think I now need to bend a soldering iron bit to be able to get the soldering done properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Memo to self: 'Remember to check hole diameters in etches that are going to folded up before you fold and fix to frames making subsequent hole enlargement difficult.........' No pictures today. I now know which way the motor gearbox has to fit and have prepared most of the parts for the next stage of frame assembly (Diagram 3 in the instruction book). I had expected to be able to complete this at the weekend but I had forgotten just how long it might take to get the slidebar/crosshead assembly correct. Three hours of careful filing and they are now ready for soldering. A couple of points form here: DJH supplies a 1/8" 10BA cheesehead screw to locate the con rod in the crosshead which is 1/4" wide. I have countersunk the rear of the crosshead and will use a 1/4" countersunk 10BA screw. The hole in the con rod has to be larger than the 1.4mm instructed and the con rod small end needs forming to fit nicely in the recess in the cross head. I will also have to file the slide bars as instructed to give clearance to the con rod, so I think I am going to make another small diversion from the instruction sequence and test fit the coupling rods and con rods and lake sure all is smooth before fitting the brake gear, cylinders wrappers etc. A special crankpin is supplied for the centre drivers which will have to be tapped M2. I will also need to adjust the holes for the plunger pick-ups which seem to be a touch inboard of the flanges. The memo to self was driven by finding that the holes for the inside slidebar/con road assembly and valve cover are a bit small and now difficult to access. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 So having decided to fit the coupling rods I first had to fit the crankpins. The leading and trailing drivers use the 12BA screws supplied with the Slaters wheels but I did my normal practice of replacing the cheesehead screws with countersunk ones and recessing the rear of the wheels. The centre crankpins are supplied by DJH and require the wheels to be tapped M2. I wanted to clean up the threads on the pins by running an M2 die along the threads, but for reasons I still cannot fathom I just couldn't get the thread to start. In the end I gave up and found some steel M2 nuts which I managed to get onto the thread. I ran them up and down a few times until it was possible to move them by hand. The bigger problem was that on one of the pins the threaded section was not concentric to the main body of the pin, so on screwing it into the wheel it was quite apparent that the pin wasn't at right angles to the wheel face - a sure recipe for poor running. I wound a few nuts onto the threaded end and holding them in a pair of pliers carefully tweaked the pin until all was in order. The good news is that the chassis runs freely with the coupling rods on. DJH suggests that to fit the return crank, its position should be marked, the pin removed, the crank soldered in place and the pin screwed back in. I am not 100% sure about this as I don't like screwing things into plastic threads more than a couple of times (and once is usually better). DJH provides a couple of crankpin bushes that are reduced height compared with the Slaters ones. The instructions show them fitted to the trailing wheels but it seems obvious that they fit on the leading wheels to give clearance behind the slidebars, so I will fit them there. I tend to let the trailing axle have some end float and will fit the standard bushes there. So tonight it will be back to fitting the slidebars. I did a quick check and yes there will be some filing to do, and clearance is tight to the leading axle but should be OK. Edit: when I look at the instructions properly, they do show the reduced height bushes on the leading wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 Having looked again at the instructions and noticing that DJH has shown the reduced height crankpin bushes in the correct place, it was back to the crosshead assemblies last night. I polished the piston rods with emery cloth to take off and microscopic burrs and satisfied with the sling fit in the slidebars, soldered the slidebars together. I then filed the inside rear of the bar to give clearance to the con rod with the wheels at top dead centre. I then drilled out the whitemetal piston rod glands and then used a broach so that the piston rods are a nice sliding fit. At this point another session of head scratching is required. With the crossheads captive in the slidebars, the only way you can affix the slidebars to the rear of the cylinders is with the glands in place. I am not too happy about this as it means soldering a large-ish lost wax casting to a nickel silver plate with a relatively delicate whitemetal component next to the soldering. It may not be a problem as the slidebars will be soldered to the motion bracket and are located in the cylinders by a small lug. As well as the potential to melt the whitemetal, there is also the not insignificant problem of ensuring that all is square so that the piston rods are still a nice sliding fit in the gland. An alternative might be to break the soldered joint at the rear of the slidebars so that the crosshead can be removed, fit the slidebars in place, fit the gland, refit the crosshead and remake the joint at the rear of the slidebars. A bit safer but runs into a potential problem that the slidebars will be distorted and the crosshead may no longer be a nice fit.It's a pity that the gland is not a lost wax casting. Anyway that will be tonight's problem. Another issue found last night is that the distance from the locating square hole in the cylinders for the slidebar to the centre of the hole for the gland is a little less than the distance from the lug on the slidebars to the centre of the piston rod. I have got round this by opening hole for the gland a little so it is a loose fit (which will help with alignment later) and by filing the lug on the slidebar to make it smaller. The total error is probably about a quarter of a millimetre, but enough to give a problem. The other job last night was to start assembling the motion bracket. This is formed in two pieces each side, one of which is like a piece of metallic origami with several folds. A drawing to confirm the folds would have been very nice. It wasn't until the last fold was completed that I could work out that it was actually correct and would work. I aligned the two parts with a piece of 1mm rod through the holes for the expansion link pivot. The next problem will be fitting the cylinder wrappers. I want to solder the valve guides and other cylinder furniture from the inside, which means fitting the wrappers after the whitemetal components. An RSU would be the sensible option, but in its absence I'll need to think of something else. Glue if soldering is not practicable. DJH provides some nice castings to replace the crankpin nuts. A reduced thickness one is provided for the leading crankpins. I will need to double check clearances behind the slidebars but I have already noticed that the reduced height crankpin bush is not as thick as the coupling rod boss so I will have to work out whether to reduce the boss thickness (which will help with clearances but may look a little strange) or if there is room pack out the bush with a washer. I'll try and post some photos tonight. I am enjoying this build even though it has become a bit tricky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hi David, Just a quick reply as I'm off to work in a minute. Regarding the piston rod glands could you not make these up out of some tube and washers? I always try and avoid any white metal parts when it comes to moving parts. Most piston rod glands are not very detailed, well not the GWR ones maybe up north they are, you will have to put up a photo. Just a thought, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 I was pleasantly surprised to find that fitting the slidebars was less trouble than I expected. First some photos of the crossheads and slidebars. Then the origami that is the motion bracket. Fitted to the frames: I was able to solder the rear of the slidebars to the motion bracket, locate the front in the cylinders and solder the gland getting the alignment correct and not melting anything! I decided to quit while I was ahead! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You are doing a crcking job as usual. It looks to be almost as much work as I had with the Ace one. But I must admit the castings look better. To me though it is a lot of fiddling on an expensive kit, or am I wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkallan Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Great work David!! I'm so looking forward to seeing this one progress. Looks like you are enjoying the challenge! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 You are doing a crcking job as usual. It looks to be almost as much work as I had with the Ace one. But I must admit the castings look better. To me though it is a lot of fiddling on an expensive kit, or am I wrong? Thanks Peter. I think it is a really nice kit, but not for the inexperienced! The issues I have had so far have largely been of my own making - I should know by now to check and open out hole sizes in etches before assembly! The minor problem with the rivet detailing part could have been avoided easily if I had done a dry run first. This prompted me to make ready all of the parts for diagram 3 and try each before getting out the iron. The only real niggle has been the fettling required to get the slidebars and piston rod into the cylinders, but the error is minor and well within normal fettling criteria! The etches and castings are excellent quality and well packed in the box. I really like the identification of part by photo: a minor quibble is the lack of a parts list and description. More detail in the instructions would be useful, but given that I am not actually following the suggested order, but doing things as I think best, perhaps that is not so important. I would not wish to put anybody off buying this (on what I have found to date) but don't try it as a starter kit! Interestingly looking at the photos the piston rod seems to have a casting line on it. I cannot see that at all by eye and I had used emery to polish it. The camera sees all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wasn't going to mention it, I wondered if it was a trick of the light, look at the piston rod glands, they have brass/copper rings in them on one photo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Trick of the light Jeff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 Fitted the rest of the cylinder furniture last night. Some fettling required to get the valve guides to sit right: filing the slidebar cylinder attachment flanges so there is enough room for the valve guide castings to sit flush. I had pre-drilled the valve guides to take the valve rods and used a 1mm drill bit as an alignment tool to ensure that the front and rear guides line up. I have offered up a cylinder wrapper to the assembly and it will be a good fit. I think before I go any farther I will fit temporarily the motor/gearbox and just double check that the con rods slide freely. I am confident but it will also help the running-in process for the gearbox. I need to solder the brake pull rods together and add the nut detail, so I can do that while the running-in is ongoing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Yesterday was spent mostly doing remedial works. I fitted the con rods and centre wheels and axle and span it round by had to ensure free movement. I then noticed that the rear of the slide bars on the right hand side were about 1mm lower than those on the left, and the piston rod didn't point to the axle centre. Moreover the motion brackets on both sides were not quite correct with some distortions. So the whole lot came off for a rebuild. I was also unhappy that the 10BA nut on the crosshead looked way too big. Checking back it seems I misread the instructions: DJH do not supply a too short 10BA cheesehead screw for the joint, but rather a correct length 12BA countersunk screw...........So I have bushed the con rod small end to take the smaller screw. Much better now. The only new progress was to fit the springs. I have glued them in place but will run a fillet of solder round the edges where they join the frames. The rear springs are going to interfere slightly with the pick ups but this is not an issue. I'll just drill through the hole and remove the small amount of offending whitemetal from the springs. Here are a selection of photos at the present state. One piston rod seems too be fish-bellied! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Good progress today, but also a lesson learnt. The first job was to fix the cylinder wrappers. Deliberately I left these until after I had fixed the piston rod glands and valve rod guides, but next time I would definitely fit the wrappers first. The main reason for this is that I accidentally touched one of the piston rod guides with the body of the soldering iron and my previously very free running piston rod became immobile. I had to break open the slidebars and remove the crosshead so I could get in to clean up the gland. Exactly what I was hoping to avoid. The instructions suggest pre-bending the wrappers but I found that any attempt to pre-bend them resulted in a kink along the line of the drains, so I simply made the first bend where the etch goes from full to half thickness. Now I say simply, but it isn't. That first bend has to be exactly along the line where the thickness changes and it doesn't want to do that. For the second wrapper I scored a deep groove, which helped, but for both of the I had to resort to some gentle tapping with a blunt instrument to get the bend right. I then soldered the thick part in place and formed the thin part of the wrapper around the cylinder end plates, securing as I went along with 145 degree solder. Quite pleased in the end though I will need to adjust the bend at the top of the cylinders. That is one that could be made first if only you knew where to bed it! Once that was done I fitted the drains and operating linkage. The drain cock castings are exquisite. With that done it was on to the brake shoes and pull rods. no issues with this: laminate top and bottom the the pull rods, add the nut detail form wire, align a set of brake blocks against one wheel and the rest align naturally. There is not much clearance between block and tread, but the blocks are nicely tapered so that there is more clearance behind the outer face. Fitting these did show one unrelated issue: the wheel flanges are an interference fit with the motion brackets so there is a bit of material to grind away from these. Nothing to worry about. I have started to fit the brake cylinder and its associated cranks and rodding. No issues at all. I think I will leave the handbrake actuator rod and damper control rods (?) till much later in the assembly as they will be vulnerable to my customary ham-fistedness. That will leave just the inside cylinder detail to fit and this can go to the paint shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 This stage of the frame construction is now complete. I completed the brakes by fitting the cylinder and associated pull rods, but I have left the handbrake until I get the body on the chassis so I can get the position correct. I also fitted the blowdown valve, rocking grate spring and internal slidebar and valve cover castings. I had to reduce the length of the inside con road a little to get a fit. I also opened out the holes for the weighshaft and pick-ups and filed the motion bracket to give clearance.With that all done I masked the slide bars and crossheads and have used the acid 8 etch primer. I forgot to take photos before sending to the paint shop. I will spray it all black before moving onto the valve gear. So with that out of the way I have started on the body assembly. First job was to carefully align the front spectacle plate to the cab former and solder together. There are a couple of small tabs on the spectacle plate that fit into the running plate. I used the running plate as a jig, locating the spectacle plate in position and offering up the former, using the running plate to check alignment and holding all together with clips. I made a couple of solder tacks to hold all in place then removed the parts from the running plate and set the sides onto a piece of glass while I soldered the side that was now at the top. I then cleaned up the solder to make sure the edge was straight and turned over the assembly to repeat on the other side. With that done I then soldered around the windows and along the bottom seam. I used 60:40 solder as I will use 145 degree solder to add other parts. With the front done I followed a similar process for the rear. The I started on the attachment of the tanks and cab side. I had already bent this assembly in the dry run last week. Again I used the running plate as a jig. At this time i have just soldered at the top of the assembly by the windows where there isn't much of a heat sink. I think I am going to use my 80W iron to make the longer joints below. That will be a job for a fresh pair of eyes: not one for 9:30pm! I have spent a lot of time checking alignments as getting this wrong will ruin the build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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