OHLE masts in smaller stations and approaches

[SGJ]

I am thinking of changing my layout, more precisely the station area because I am considering using some class 91 locos ( plus the odd class 90`s and WCML locos etc).

 I have bought some Dapol masts, however the stations that I normally see like Guiseley, Keighley, Frizinghall etc they have tall masts with wires between them from one platform to another, then the Dapol masts are at the ends of the station, do any stations have the Dapol masts in the station or are they all the wire system, the only station that I know that has something similar to the Dapol masts is Ilkley but even then they are not the same and are twin arm plus they look upside down, maybe more a design for trams ?

 

What I am wanting is the DFapol masts in the station as well as the station approaches

 

This is a photo of the wires and masts over the platforms at Guiseley

 

The mast on the platform

 

The Dapol style masts after the end of the platform

 

The masts at Ilkley (twin arm)

 

[kenw]

With the standard mast / support arm arrangement, as the Dapol models, I think it's highly unlikely that these would be allowed over a platform, as 2 major issues here with these.

 

1. As modelled, the reach of the support arms would be too short, placing the mast too close to the platform edge.

 

2. With this arrangement of support arms, note in the picture of masts off the platform end, the insulators are attached directly to the mast, so the whole of the support arms and associated fittings are live. On a platform this would put live equipment directly overhead on the platform.

 

On the arrangement pictured at Guiseley ("Headspan"), note when used over a platform this type has the insulators positioned over the platform edge in such way that the live components are over the track only.

Similarly, the arrangement pictured at Ilkley, the space between the tracks allows for masts to be positioned between them for both lines, again with no live equipment over the platform.

 

I think there may be some mast / support arm arrangements used over platforms, but to a different design of support arm and with insulators arranged so live components aren't over the platform.

[terrysoham]

Hi Dutch_Master,

Thank you for the information which was very interesting.

Any chance of some photographs to explain your instructions better please?

What gauge and type of wire do you use for your cross-wires? What do you use for your insulators?

 

I have quite a few of these to construct for Neely.

 

Many thanks

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi SGJ

 

Is this of any help. Dimensions for 00, EM and P4.

 

 

Quickly redrawn from this

 

[Nick Holliday]

I know they are not the head span type as per the photos, but N Brass Locos do etched kits for lattice trussed portal frames for two or four tracks in both N and 4mm scales, together with some fittings such as insulators that might help if you make your own.

[Edwin_m]

There are places where supports similar to the Dapol type are used on platforms, but they have longer arms so as to reach across from the back of the platform to the track, and there are insulators part way along the arms so there is no live equipment above the platform. 

[Clive Mortimore]

I know they are not the head span type as per the photos, but N Brass Locos do etched kits for lattice trussed portal frames for two or four tracks in both N and 4mm scales, together with some fittings such as insulators that might help if you make your own.

Hi Nick

 

The N Brass etches are wonderful but they are for Mk1 equipment. See Andi Dell's Ravensclyffe layout. The Dapol mast are Mk3  and the only time you see the two together is when an older system meets a newer system. Mixing them is a bit like a Gresely buffet car in the middle of a HST set.

[Clive Mortimore]

There are places where supports similar to the Dapol type are used on platforms, but they have longer arms so as to reach across from the back of the platform to the track, and there are insulators part way along the arms so there is no live equipment above the platform. 

Hi Edwin

 

Bit like these

[SGJ]

I should have said that its for Midland Road http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72294-midland-road/ which is oo gauge.

Thanks for the answers, Its genuinely appreciated.

I am not sure that I want to do the OHLE but its ticking in the back of my mind to have some 91`s 

[Nick Holliday]

Hi Nick

 

The N Brass etches are wonderful but they are for Mk1 equipment. See Andi Dell's Ravensclyffe layout. The Dapol mast are Mk3  and the only time you see the two together is when an older system meets a newer system. Mixing them is a bit like a Gresely buffet car in the middle of a HST set.

Sorry about that. My interest in overhead electrics stops when the Southern dismantled the superior LBSC system in favour of the inferior South Western third rail!

[Clive Mortimore]

Sorry about that. My interest in overhead electrics stops when the Southern dismantled the superior LBSC system in favour of the inferior South Western third rail!

There is no need to be sorry, even Dapol was/is going to make a similar mistake. They did propose some portal mast which were Mk1 equipment and would not have been compatible with their Mk3 cantilever mast.

 

Overhead equipment is the poor relation when it comes knowledge, models, information tec. to other stuff in the "Modern Image". As for pre WW2 or even pre WW1 like the LBSCR stuff, well who would be interested in that? I have a lovely book by Stephen Grant, "The LBSCR Elevated Electrification, a pictorial view of construction".

[kenw]

I am not sure that I want to do the OHLE but its ticking in the back of my mind to have some 91`s 

Just stick a 67 on the front then;

 

After all. the 91s end up 'Thunderbird' hauled often enough!

 

Ooops, that's the turn I'm on next two days

[terrysoham]

Hi SGJ

 

Is this of any help. Dimensions for 00, EM and P4.

 

25kv mk3a 1110arm headspan platform 2 track.png

 

Quickly redrawn from this

25kv mk3a 1110arm headspan platform rm.png

I am trying to find a diameter of nickel silver or brass rod that could be used to fabricate the supporting cross wires that go between posts (NOT the catenary itself) that is stiff enough not to sag see the above drawings. I am modelling in 1:148 scale so it needs to be pretty thin. I have tried 0.1 mm diameter nickel silver and it is unsuitable! I note that brass rod is available in 0.2 mm and 0.3mm diameters (I don't want to go any bigger than this). Does anybody know whether this would be stiff enough not to sag?

 

Thanks

[Clive Mortimore]

I am trying to find a diameter of nickel silver or brass rod that could be used to fabricate the supporting cross wires that go between posts (NOT the catenary itself) that is stiff enough not to sag see the above drawings. I am modelling in 1:148 scale so it needs to be pretty thin. I have tried 0.1 mm diameter nickel silver and it is unsuitable! I note that brass rod is available in 0.2 mm and 0.3mm diameters (I don't want to go any bigger than this). Does anybody know whether this would be stiff enough not to sag?

 

Thanks

Hi Terry

 

Head on down to your nearest musical instrument shop and have a look at their selection of small diameter guitar strings. Take a butchers at what Rich is doing with his Stromallee layout.

[stewartingram]

Work harden it by stretching it, also this will straighten it too. Grip one end tight in a vice or pliers, and pull the other end. Be prepared for it to break where grippd.

 

Stewart

[Dagworth]

Hi Terry

 

Head on down to your nearest musical instrument shop and have a look at their selection of small diameter guitar strings. Take a butchers at what Rich is doing with his Stromallee layout.

Agree completely, guitar string is ideal for multiple reasons, it solders easily, it is designed to be tensioned and is also designed to be belted hard...

 

Have a look at https://www.flickr.com/photos/dagworth/albums/72157631810673831for some photos of Dagworth that uses mark3 equipment and headspans. THis is all guitar string and brass section. The headspan cross wires are guitar string, the actual equipment support rods are 30 thou brass rod. 

All my insulators are made from a small coil of tinned copper wire painted brown, it looks good enough from 30 cm or so. 

 

Andi

[28XX]

You could have stanchions which extend below the baseboard and are linked together by a spring or rubber band. This would tension the headspan wire to keep it straight.

[5BarVT]

 

Overhead equipment is the poor relation when it comes knowledge, . . .

Not just in the modelling sphere. A number of years ago there was a photo doing the rounds of a platform extension that had been done on the basis that it was nothing more than building works so had just been constructed around an existing mast with the insulators attached to the post. It resulted in a long term emergency isolation of the 25kV through the station, fortunately on a route that had no booked electric traction. I think it must have been Earlstown.

[Clive Mortimore]

Not just in the modelling sphere. A number of years ago there was a photo doing the rounds of a platform extension that had been done on the basis that it was nothing more than building works so had just been constructed around an existing mast with the insulators attached to the post. It resulted in a long term emergency isolation of the 25kV through the station, fortunately on a route that had no booked electric traction. I think it must have been Earlstown.

Hi

 

When the privatisation took place one of the many small companies that sprang up took on the role of station repairs along the GE suburban lines. They inherited the old BR wooden ladders, which were battered and worn. They replaced them with new aluminum ones. Very surprised when their workers were denied access to their first job.

[uax6]

Google Littleport Station and look at the portals in use here, basically headspan consrtuction without the top wires, the wires being replaced by a H beam the same size as the uprights,

 

Andy G

[terrysoham]

Google Littleport Station and look at the portals in use here, basically headspan consrtuction without the top wires, the wires being replaced by a H beam the same size as the uprights,

 

Andy G

Thanks Andy,

 

I think that you have solved my problem. I shall use a H Beam without the top wires for Neely.

 

Thank you very much.

[uax6]

And its from the same area too! Now just be careful of the bases, those around Ely are cast concrete boxes with four studs sticking out and the bottom of the upright has a 25mm thick steel foot that goes over the studs. They don't sit on the concret though, the studs have nuts on, and the base sits on the studs, and is then nutted on top!

 

Andy G

[Trog]

Hi

 

When the privatisation took place one of the many small companies that sprang up took on the role of station repairs along the GE suburban lines. They inherited the old BR wooden ladders, which were battered and worn. They replaced them with new aluminum ones. Very surprised when their workers were denied access to their first job.

 

The version I heard was of contractors who turned up to paint the lamp posts on a platform with aluminium ladders, and were turned away due to the OHLE. When they returned with new wooden ladders another member of the station staff asked why they were using the wooden ladders, so they explained it was a safety precaution because of the OHLE and they could not use metal ones. The staff member said that's not what I was getting at and proceeded to demonstrate how to fold the lamp posts down to platform level.

[terrysoham]

Andy these are to go across from platform 1 to platform 2 and my photos show that the platform's tarmac goes right up to the H beam. I assume that all the fasteners are under the foundations for the platforms.

 

I assume that your description applies to the portals that are at the southern end of the station which I shall also model using the H beam. However, some of these go over 4 or 5 tracks, would the H beam still be ok?

 

You should remember that I'm modelling at 1:148 so no one will see the bolt heads!

 

By the way are you the signaller that Neil Watson has mentioned to me?

 

Thank you.

[Clive Mortimore]

I done this drawing while cooking tea.

 

 

I hope it is of use, note dimensions are for a 4mm model.