PAL Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 This is a real entry-level question, but for all the helpful advice on this site and elsewhere, I just couldn't find an answer I could understand. I should say that as an electrical ignoramus, I'm sticking strictly to wire-in-tube operation and the best combination of electical simplicity and reliability I can get away with - no switches, no motors. The question is about the slot in the webbing about halfway along on my new Electrofrogs that lets you get at the undersides of the rails. As I understand it, it's there so that you can bond the stock rails to the switch rails without mutilating the webbing. If you then solder a dropper to each bond, can you use that pair of droppers as an ALTERNATIVE to a current feed to the toe? Or is it simply a supplement so that point operation isn't completely dependent on possibly dodgy switch blade contacts? While I'm at it, here's an equally basic supplementary: I've always been a bit apprehensive about cutting into Peco point webbing in case it all falls apart and possibly misaligns the point. When you solder droppers to the toe, what's the least destructive way of doing it? Also, I have some ancient Electrofrogs which work perfectly. But if I wanted to bond stock rails to switch rails on those, I certainly would need to cut into the webbing, and I have the same anxiety about that. , All responses gratefully received, and most gratefully to those couched in idiot-proof language! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted October 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2015 You can bond a current feed to the two rails where Peco have cut the webbing for you, but this must only be done in conjunction with isolating the frog and providing power via a polarity switch. Otherwise you will get a permanent short circuit. If you're using wire--in-tube then you can use an SPDT slider switch to operate the wire for the point, the switch providing the power to the frog with the correct polarity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 or, if I dare to mention it, a frog juicer! That's what I'm using with my manual points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've always been a bit apprehensive about cutting into Peco point webbing in case it all falls apart and possibly misaligns the point. When you solder droppers to the toe, what's the least destructive way of doing it? Also, I have some ancient Electrofrogs which work perfectly. But if I wanted to bond stock rails to switch rails on those, I certainly would need to cut into the webbing, and I have the same anxiety about that. , All responses gratefully received, and most gratefully to those couched in idiot-proof language! It is possible to cut certain webs to adjust the geometry so the straight route is slightly curved, so I wouldn't worry too much about cutting a few webs. It is also possible to replace one or more of the longer timbers with a copperclad sleeper. Once soldered, the excess copper can be removed and the fibreglass grained by dragging a fine saw across it, before painting & weathering it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 or, if I dare to mention it, a frog juicer! That's what I'm using with my manual points. Why a frog juicer when a simple switch working with your point control system works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Frog juicers are for DCC only and more expensive than switch machines...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Why a frog juicer when a simple switch working with your point control system works. The power of advertising. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I know there's EVERY reason not to like/use them... but I wouldn't, probably couldn't, be without my frog juicers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAL Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 My - rather belated - thanks to all who took the trouble to reply to such a basic question. Particular thanks to RFS. I'm going to look into using slider switches rather than the standard Mercontrol levers. Presumably you drill a tiny hole in the switch along the direction in which the wire travels to the point, and hook it through. And to 298 for the replacement sleeper idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 My - rather belated - thanks to all who took the trouble to reply to such a basic question. Particular thanks to RFS. I'm going to look into using slider switches rather than the standard Mercontrol levers. Presumably you drill a tiny hole in the switch along the direction in which the wire travels to the point, and hook it through. And to 298 for the replacement sleeper idea. You drill the hole in the switch at 90 degrees to the direction of movement, then you bend the operating wire at 90 degrees to put it through the hole. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You may also need some form of adjustment, such as two overlapping wires joined inside a single piece of chocolate block. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 An Omega loop perhaps to accommodate different throws etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted November 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2015 Or, you drill through the switch in the direction of movement, pass a brass rod through and connect to the point throw, having previously tinned and passed a brass tube and washer over. Then second tube and washer over the rod which is projecting through the switch. Set the point at one throw with the switch corresponding and solder the tube to the rod with the washer tight up to the switch body. tHen do the same for the other side. You should end up with the point travel rather less than the switch travel, the difference being a gap between the washer and switch body. The washer is to spread the pressure over more area of the switch, which is a softer material than your tube. Don't linger with the soldering iron close to the switch, or it will start to melt, keep it at the far end of the tube, in and out. How's that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 PAL- before you buy switches and wire-in-tube etc., take a look at Blue Point manual under board switches. I fitted them to my On30 layout and used old knitting needles as push/pull rods. Once positioned under the point tie-rod there is no adjustment required as the rod movement is the same as the switch machine movement which then moves the tie-rod via a springy wire. It's true that the springy wire pivot can be adjusted to increase or decrease the point blade pressure on the stock rail but about midway is usually about right. Of course it has built-in polarity changeover switches which just need to be appropriately connected. Here's one next to a Tortoise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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