Bachmann Anchor Mounted Tanks at Warley

[Wickham Green]

What books are available as a source of information on fuel / oil tank wagons?

 

I have:

Petroleum Rail Tank Wagons of Britain by R. Tourret

Oil on the Rails by A. Coppin

 

Gordon A

There's a nice selection of pictures - probably mentioned somewhere above here - in Geoff Kent's 4mm Wagon Part 2 ....... and there are a few tankers in most of the general Private Owner books by Keith Turton and the late Bill Hudsdon etc.etc.

[Fat Controller]

I also have these:

 

Cheona Publications, Railways in Profile series.

 

No.4: British Railway wagons - Railtanks, compiled by G. Gamble. 

 

No.14: British Railway Private Owner tank wagons, compiled by R. Tourret.

 

Pages 36/7 of the former carries photos of two distinct types of 20t anchor-mount tanks in Shell-BP Class B livery. One looks very like the Bachmann model but with a slightly fatter barrel (or so it appears to me) but the other is radically different.

 

John

There is also the most recent David Larkin book I mentioned earlier, 'Non-Pool Freight Stock, 1948-1968', published by Kestrel Books (ISBN 978-1-905505-40-1). This volume only goes as far as 'H', so you have 'BP' and 'ESSO', but not 'Shell-Mex- BP'.

[SDJR7F88]

A review of the all new 20 Ton Anchor Mounted Tank Wagon, in smart ESSO Black Livery.

The model is a totally new tooling to the range, including a number of design differences, which can be used to create various other prototypes of the wagon.

Bachmann have done a great job in capturing the overall rugged looks of these Tankers very well, with the model features a very high level of detail, including; Separately fitted Ladder, Detailed Filler Cap and Valves, Metal Buffers, Darken Metal Wheels and Highly Detailed Under Frame.

The 20 Ton Anchor Mounted Tanker is must for any British Railways period good rake!

Hope you enjoy!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRlDAntFq2s

Edited July 8, 2016 by SDJR7F88

[lofty.ian]

Hi there,

I have just discovered this thread, and would like to offer some thoughts on tankers.  I have almost completed 5 Shell/BP anchor tankers (just need catwalks and ladders to complete), so I didn't beat the Bachmann models.  I used shortened barrels from Airfix kit tankers to get the larger diameter and length of 20T tankers - they make a nice comparison with the earlier smaller Bachmann tankers.  Variety is important for that era,

For 4 of them I used Parkside solebars with plastic strip to form the internal steel members.  This gave strength with the important open look.  For the fifth one I used a Cambrian chassis which I would use for any future models - the time saving is significant.  The Anchor mountings were scratch built - another slow job!

By the way, every Anchor tanker photo I have seen shows the chassis to have tie-bars between the axle-guards.

At least they show progress from the earlier Bachmann tankers.  These were hybrids of saddle and cradle tank mountings as well as having the solid chassis.  With these I cut out the central part of the chassis and again built up the structure using plastic strip as well as modifying the tank mountings by making new saddles (cross mountings).  I added the below solebar discharge piping for class B tanks.  One can also introduce variety by removing the rivets from some to represent welded tanks and fitting axle-guard tie-bars to some.  Geoff Kent's book '4mm Wagon' is an excellent guide along with the 'bible' Tourret.

I demonstrated this process at an ExpoEM North exhibition a few years ago - on the next stand to Dave if I remember correctly.

[Gordon A]

Hi lofty.ian,

 

Any chance of some pictures please?

 

Gordon A

[Fat Controller]

When looking for something else, I happened upon a photo of a train of tank wagons taken in South Wales in 1962. It was in 'Freight Wagons and Loads in service on the Great Western Railway and British Rail Western Region' by J H Russell. 

The wagons are 14t capacity Class B tanks, lettered for Shell-Mex-BP; of the nine or so clearly visible, only one is of the anchor-mounted type. About half are still on spoked wheel-sets.

[lofty.ian]

Hi lofty.ian,

 

Any chance of some pictures please?

 

Gordon A

Regarding photos, not got my camera till late next week.  Then I will try and work out how to post them.

[hmrspaul]

When looking for something else, I happened upon a photo of a train of tank wagons taken in South Wales in 1962. It was in 'Freight Wagons and Loads in service on the Great Western Railway and British Rail Western Region' by J H Russell. 

The wagons are 14t capacity Class B tanks, lettered for Shell-Mex-BP; of the nine or so clearly visible, only one is of the anchor-mounted type. About half are still on spoked wheel-sets.

SMBP would have had a fleet of over 8000 unfitted tank wagons at that time, I doubt they had any VB tanks at all. Their fleet had wagons going back to the turn of the century and anchor mount tanks would have only been a smallish proportion of the entire fleet. However SMBP did divide their fleet into wagons only permitted to run short local services and others which were used for long distances, so it is likely that trains would be largely made up of pre war or wartime (see Lionheart 7mm tank wagon) and anchor mounts.

 

Paul

[Wickham Green]

When looking for something else, I happened upon a photo of a train of tank wagons taken in South Wales in 1962. It was in 'Freight Wagons and Loads in service on the Great Western Railway and British Rail Western Region' by J H Russell. 

The wagons are 14t capacity Class B tanks, lettered for Shell-Mex-BP; of the nine or so clearly visible, only one is of the anchor-mounted type. About half are still on spoked wheel-sets.

I'd guess most - if not all - of the non-anchor tanks would have been ex Air Ministry type and a lot of those ( I nearly said the majority ) would have had open/spit spoke wheels from new and, like you, I think of that as an archaic feature ....... but is that strictly the case ? - does anyone know when ( three-hole ) disc wheels became universal for new construction ? - did it vary from builder to builder ? - did the war have an effect on this ? - were there just zillions of perfectly sound old wheels knocking around at the time ? ............. anyone got any thoughts ?

[hmrspaul]

I'd guess most - if not all - of the non-anchor tanks would have been ex Air Ministry type and a lot of those ( I nearly said the majority ) would have had open/spit spoke wheels from new and, like you, I think of that as an archaic feature ....... but is that strictly the case ? - does anyone know when ( three-hole ) disc wheels became universal for new construction ? - did it vary from builder to builder ? - did the war have an effect on this ? - were there just zillions of perfectly sound old wheels knocking around at the time ? ............. anyone got any thoughts ?

Certainly plenty of split spoke wheels were being put under newly constructed wagons for BR in the early 1950s. Just as an example the early BR single bolsters http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/singlebolster

 

Plenty of the SMBP predated the AM types, for example they had lots of wagons built for the Scottish shale oil traffic from the turn of the century onwards.

 

Paul

 

PS interesting to note Hornby are to produce a split spoke wheel in 00.

Edited July 8, 2016 by hmrspaul

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just a thought.

As Paul has mentioned in passing, the Bachmann TTA is somewhat bereft in variety, to the extent that the releases so for are about 95% wrong for the builder/livery/underframe details, but I don't remember such a firestorm of antagonism against it, so why the angst for the anchor mounted tank, are we getting more demanding?

 

Mike.

[Gordon A]

Just a thought.

As Paul has mentioned in passing, the Bachmann TTA is somewhat bereft in variety, to the extent that the releases so for are about 95% wrong for the builder/livery/underframe details, but I don't remember such a firestorm of antagonism against it, so why the angst for the anchor mounted tank, are we getting more demanding?

 

Mike.

 

I expect more as the rrp has passed £20.00. This is no longer the price for an inaccurate toy.

 

Gordon A

[Enterprisingwestern]

I expect more as the rrp has passed £20.00. This is no longer the price for an inaccurate toy.

 

Gordon A

So would, say, £12 be a better price for an inaccurate toy?

 

Mike.

[Wickham Green]

So would, say, £12 be a better price for an inaccurate toy?

 

Mike.

You could have a half decent model of a cattle wagon for a mere tenner ! .............................................. though, off hand, I can't remember which is the decent half : is it the half without the vacuum cylinder - or the other half without a vac.cylinder which should have one ??!?

[Brian Hawkins]

Just a quick and stupid question, would 38-776 and 38-777 ever be seen together on tank train ? This question was asked with the help of necking Carlsberg all afternoon :-)

[Wickham Green]

Just a quick and stupid question, would 38-776 and 38-777 ever be seen together on tank train ? This question was asked with the help of necking Carlsberg all afternoon :-)

Without going over old ground concerning the resemblance of those two models to the wagons they're supposed to represent - let's say it's unlikely that SHELL/BP and ESSO tankers would have been seen together very often : Each would have run between their own refineries and distribution depots and it's possible that tankers for smaller 'rival' depots could have ended up in the same mixed freight going in the appropriate direction ........................... Carlsberg, on the other hand, would have been carried in six-wheeled stainless steel tankers with the necessary HAZCHEM warnings !

[PenrithBeacon]

Certainly plenty of split spoke wheels were being put under newly constructed wagons for BR in the early 1950s. Just as an example the early BR single bolsters http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/singlebolster

 

...

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/singlebolster/h2adb5dfb#h3359dd7d

 

Don't know whether this is the photo you're referring to but it was taken in 1978 after withdrawal from revenue service. I think this wagon would probably been retro-fitted with these split spoke wheels after manufacture.

 

Regards

[Brian Hawkins]

Without going over old ground concerning the resemblance of those two models to the wagons they're supposed to represent - let's say it's unlikely that SHELL/BP and ESSO tankers would have been seen together very often : Each would have run between their own refineries and distribution depots and it's possible that tankers for smaller 'rival' depots could have ended up in the same mixed freight going in the appropriate direction ........................... Carlsberg, on the other hand, would have been carried in six-wheeled stainless steel tankers with the necessary HAZCHEM warnings !

 

Thank you very much, I'm going to be giggling for the rest of the day now at your brilliant response ! ;-)

[Wickham Green]

Thank you very much, I'm going to be giggling for the rest of the day now at your brilliant response ! ;-)

OOPS ! ......... have I created a giggling 'Miss Strawkins' ? .......................... doesn't bear thinking about !

['CHARD]

As Paul has mentioned in passing, the Bachmann TTA is somewhat bereft in variety, to the extent that the releases so for are about 95% wrong for the builder/livery/underframe details, but I don't remember such a firestorm of antagonism against it, 

 

 

Could some kind soul dare point me to that discussion, so I can establish the wrongness of my growing fleet of TTAs for use in the summer of love.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Could some kind soul dare point me to that discussion, so I can establish the wrongness of my growing fleet of TTAs for use in the summer of love.

Without knowing exactly where it was, I would suggest a search of Bachmann TTA, if not just on this site but others, may yield fruit.

To oversimplify, Bachmann have only done a Pickering underframe.

 

Mike.

[hmrspaul]

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/singlebolster/h2adb5dfb#h3359dd7d

 

Don't know whether this is the photo you're referring to but it was taken in 1978 after withdrawal from revenue service. I think this wagon would probably been retro-fitted with these split spoke wheels after manufacture.

 

Regards

No, not necessarily, there are several in the collection. And the Shildon official of this type also has split spoke wheels, as do many other Shildon built wagons soon after the turn of Nationalisation.

 

Paul

[Wickham Green]

No, not necessarily, there are several in the collection. And the Shildon official of this type also has split spoke wheels, as do many other Shildon built wagons soon after the turn of Nationalisation.

 

Paul

At that time there were huge numbers of old wagons being broken up after years of neglect during / after the war - so I'd guess the wheels would have been the one FULLY STANDARDISED component that could be recycled into new construction. There's no way it would have made economic sense to make complicated spoked wheels once pressing ( metal spinning ? ) technology was developed for disc wheels !

[hmrspaul]

At that time there were huge numbers of old wagons being broken up after years of neglect during / after the war - so I'd guess the wheels would have been the one FULLY STANDARDISED component that could be recycled into new construction. There's no way it would have made economic sense to make complicated spoked wheels once pressing ( metal spinning ? ) technology was developed for disc wheels !

The manufacture of split spoke wheels ceased before the amalgamations of the early 1920s. Clearly there was ample re-use of these, none too old, wheels in the 1950s and they could be seen well into the 1970s.

 

Paul

[Wickham Green]

The manufacture of split spoke wheels ceased before the amalgamations of the early 1920s. Clearly there was ample re-use of these, none too old, wheels in the 1950s and they could be seen well into the 1970s.

 

Paul

Any thoughts on what we muddlers tend to call 'plain' spoke wheels ( no idea what the correct terminology was - nor for 'split' spoke for that matter ) ......... tended to be very much a Western speciality and I get the feeling they might have remained in production a little longer - but how WERE they made ? ; a single casting or a separate casting for each spoke and rim segment or ......... ?