BG John Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I built this mock-up card building earlier this year, and several joins I stuck with UHU Solvent Free are coming apart. I had the same thing on another building too. The instructions on the tube say "Apply a thin layer to one surface, join surfaces together.To stick non-absorbent surfaces apply a thin layer to each surface (dry and free from grease) leave for a while, apply another layer and press together.". Both these buildings are made from Bonio boxes, and the joins that have failed have one surface that's on the printed side of the card, so is that the problem? Should I have treated them as non-absorbent? They are still tacky, so would applying another layer of glue now fix it? I'm currently building some Scalescenes kits, and don't want them to come apart, although I'm using greyboard for them, so if it's a problem with non-absorbent materials only, presumably they will be OK, but I'd like to be sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF51 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 John, I haven't done much in the way of card kits recently, am off on a 1/72 WW II armor tangent, so had a look at my card buildings. I have 4 structures at various stages of completion, the oldest build from just over a year ago. That one and one other have actually been in a shoe box out in my shed, and 2 here in the house, up on a open shelf. Except for using CA glue for a very few detail items, I just use either PVC or resin glues for my kits. Over here, it's the Elmer's brand, the pvc being their standard item, the resin glue their carpenter's glue. None of the structures are showing any signs of joint separation. The above is just a FWIW, as we don't have UHU glues over here, that I've found. Jim F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I have used the UHU solvent free glue (Green Writing) and have found its OK for some card but not all, I have found the same as you if it can't soak in it can stay wet, the other problem I have found is that when it does dry it can become brittle, and the joint is easily broken so I have gone back to using either PVA or Poundland Hard as Nails (Cheap version of No More Nails) if I need extra strength. I have kept the little yellow bottles it came in though and filled with PVA as they make a nice applicator, the thread of the green collar is left hand so you have to twist accordingly to open it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 John, I too had problems with the solvent free, when using it on foam cored board. This was partly due to not reading the instructions regarding two coats, but it does seem to have been a recurring problem even when applied properly. I have now moved to the white 'PVA like' Gorilla Glue from the DIY outlets, and apart from the fact that it takes longer to dry, it seems much better. As you're not using foam cored board there's probably no reason not to use the original UHU all purpose, which has always been fine for me in the past, it seems to be the solvent free that's the problem. Where it doesn't show I've also found the glue gun to be my new best friend for holding stuff together, as it puts a substantial fillet into the joint. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Thanks everyone. This is what I've built so far, all in 4mm. I've started to wonder if the laser printed paper overlays may not be absorbent enough either! Or is that just paranoia? I've used a mixture of Pritt, cheap supermarket superglue and UHU on them. The UHU does hold, even if it doesn't dry, quite quickly, which is an advantage. There's a limit to how often I can stop to wait for things to dry once I've got the momentum going! Although I messed around with some mockup versions, these are the first Scalescenes kits I've built for real, and there are bits of all of them I'm not totally satisfied with, so I may build them again one day, as I learn all the things I need to watch out for. But I'd rather it was done when I choose, not because they fall apart! I'm planning quite a number of temporary mock-up buildings for short to medium term use on the various layouts I'm planning, similar to the one in my first post (but with rather more subdued colouring!), so there will be a lot of card gluing happening. It may be worth trying some PVA, if I can find something suitable to put some in. Apart from a from small chunk of a big mill building, everything I'm planning will be either 4mm or small 7mm buildings, so I need to be able to apply it to small areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Steve14 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 You lot are lucky. The last time I tried using the UHU solvent free glue it never dried so never stuck. Never had that problem before, and never will again. Threw the stuff in the bin to put it out of its mysery. I now use evostick contact adhesive, but not always as a contact adhesive if that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Hi, Late to this....but....I thought it was just me. I dropped a NG engine shed recently and it came apart at three of the corners, didn't tear the paper, just broke down the joins leaving a shiny 'snail trail' on each half of the joint. I think I am going back to my old favourite, Evostik ResinW , a posh PVA, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Evo-Stik-Wood-Adhesive-Resin/dp/B0001P03UG applied with my 'Finetip' dispenser bottle, http://www.finetip.co.uk/ for card, UHU type pritt stik for texture paper to card and the UHU twist-up solvent type glue for sticking non-absorbant [shiny] card. I have found 'Anita's Tacky Glue', a sort of thick PVA very useful and reliable, too. To the best of my knowledge I haven't built anything for anyone else using the solvent-free UHU, touch wood. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 applied with my 'Finetip' dispenser bottle, http://www.finetip.co.uk/ for card Some people are really annoying! Telling us about the perfect product that we would all rush to buy, if the makers hadn't retired and stopped doing them . I was getting quite excited about it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadway Clive Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Solvent free glues are often problematic. I've built lots and lots of card models and for assembly I always use normal Uhu or Bostick. My friend John Howe, of Kingsway Models always uses the latter, though it tends to be slightly more expensive. For sticking paper to card I use spray adhesive. 3M is the best but expensive, the problem with some cheaper ones is that they can soak through the paper, so need to test first. For smaller bits of paper I use a Pritt stick or equivalent. I never use PVA because I mostly work with ink jet printed artwork and water based glues will damage it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Some people are really annoying! Telling us about the perfect product that we would all rush to buy, if the makers hadn't retired and stopped doing them . I was getting quite excited about it! Fret not John, Metcalf do these.... http://www.metcalfemodels.com/ultra-fine-tip-glue-applicators I suspect just as good, but they no longer post outside UK, annoting because I need replacements for my Finetip, would you believe after 10 years the tip has started to corrode...and block up....since I started to use UHU Solvent Free! Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Solvent free glues are often problematic. I've built lots and lots of card models and for assembly I always use normal Uhu or Bostick. My friend John Howe, of Kingsway Models always uses the latter, though it tends to be slightly more expensive. For sticking paper to card I use spray adhesive. 3M is the best but expensive, the problem with some cheaper ones is that they can soak through the paper, so need to test first. For smaller bits of paper I use a Pritt stick or equivalent. I never use PVA because I mostly work with ink jet printed artwork and water based glues will damage it. Using Epson Durabrite inks I have no problems re water based glues, in fact I weather using watercolour washes. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Fret not John, Metcalf do these.... http://www.metcalfemodels.com/ultra-fine-tip-glue-applicators I suspect just as good, but they no longer post outside UK, annoting because I need replacements for my Finetip, would you believe after 10 years the tip has started to corrode...and block up....since I started to use UHU Solvent Free! Doug Thanks. I've been searching for alternatives and there are a few out there, but trying to decide which one isn't easy. Finetip tips are still available according to the web site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 I've ordered the dispenser bottles from an Amazon seller for a bit less, some Anita's Tacky Glue and some non solvent free UHU. Hopefully that will do for now. Tonight's job is to stick several A4 sheets of Scalescenes Low-Relief Factory to greyboard using Pritt. Covering an A4 sheet with it is as much as I'd like to do, but it seems to work. They'll spend the night under some weight, and I'll start cutting out tomorrow night. Using Epson Durabrite inks I have no problems re water based glues, in fact I weather using watercolour washes.Doug I'm using a colour laser, so water based glues shouldn't be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 This seems an appropriate time to suggest the tip below when joining 'cardboard ends' to 'textured sides'.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28097-joining-scalescenes-textured-elements/ I don't do it all the time, but where I am concerned that a lifting-off of a texture paper would give me problems it's out with the sharp, pointy-thing and Robert is your mother's brother. In the Scalescenes Edwardian school building http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97427-scalescenes-edwardian-school-to36/ there are lots of such end-to-side joins, some of which have to stay secure and rigid during further assembly work. It's one of John Wiffen's best, I think. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 After trying many glues for wood and card constructions over many years, I've settled on using the water-resistant version of Evostick Resin W, which I guess is a PVA. It is the one that comes in a blue,rather than a green, bottle. http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/evo-stik/Resin-W-Weatherproof-Exterior-Wood-Adhesive/5 I got into this one when I was building wagons and coaches for garden-railway use, which can get the odd dousing if a shower arrives unexpectedly. It is quicker-grabbing than the "green bottle" version, but does need the same discipline of keeping the joint under pressure (might be as simple as light finger pressure on some parts) while the very initial cure occurs. It isn't as cheap as some of the pound-land type PVAs, but neither is it already watered-down, which they seem to be. Don't get it on your clothes though - it would be ideal for waterproofing diving suits, so it doesn't wash out/off. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 This seems an appropriate time to suggest the tip below when joining 'cardboard ends' to 'textured sides'.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28097-joining-scalescenes-textured-elements/ I don't do it all the time, but where I am concerned that a lifting-off of a texture paper would give me problems it's out with the sharp, pointy-thing and Robert is your mother's brother. Thanks. I think the only joins like that I've done so far are on the coal staithes in the free R024 Weighbridge/Coal Office. They are weak joins anyway, as there is no strengthening, but it's recommended that pieces of foam are inserted cut to a pile of coal shape. It could be worth making another on to see if my wobbly joins become stronger. Has anyone built this kit? There are a couple of oddities with it, and one of the instructions is a bit confusing for anyone who's half asleep at the time! PS My mother's only brother was Sidney, but she had a nephew called Robert! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted December 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2015 I find Rocket Card Glue very effective and dries very quickly too unlike PVA. I have had Scalescene models stored in the garage now for over two years and no signs of coming apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted December 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2015 I find the tubes of Bostic work very well. They can be a bit stringy but that can be minimised with care, and any persistent strings can be easily removed with tweezers after the joint has set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I find Rocket Card Glue very effective and dries very quickly too unlike PVA. I have had Scalescene models stored in the garage now for over two years and no signs of coming apart. I have to agree.. Rocket card glue is an exceptional adhesive. More expensive but bonds brilliantly. Before I discovered Rocket I used PVA woodworking adhesive and 99p shops UHU tubes. But Rocket beats them all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I have to agree.. Rocket card glue is an exceptional adhesive. More expensive but bonds brilliantly. Before I discovered Rocket I used PVA woodworking adhesive and 99p shops UHU tubes. But Rocket beats them all! Yes, it is jolly good, I use it to glue window acetates onto the back surfaces of window cut-outs, it seems to stay minutely flexible and I've not had one fail. I have found it rather 'sticky', staying gluey on ones fingers, sometimes pulling off what has just been applied! Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 I spend money buying glues people recommend, and then get other products recommended! I'm still experiencing the excitement of trying Anita's Tacky Glue, and now I'm being tempted to try Rocket Card Glue . I've almost finished Scalescenes Low Relief Factory, where I've mostly used Pritt. The Tacky Glue arrived part way through the job, and I'm impressed with it. Some of that is due to the tiny nozzle on the tube, as it's an ideal size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I find Rocket Card Glue very effective and dries very quickly too unlike PVA. I have had Scalescene models stored in the garage now for over two years and no signs of coming apart. Yep, I'm another to agree. Initially I was sceptical, thinking it was too wet and would take a long time to set/dry meaning a lot of holding while it 'grabbed' the parts. But I've found it otherwise and to be very useful for card construction. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 It appears to be Roket, not as in what's used to get into space or fire explosives over long distances. Many more suppliers appear when searching using the right spelling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If you want instant grab but with a PVA strength joint and don't have any special glues around, coat one surface with a thin layer of PVA and the other with some cheap thin superglue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george stein Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 A quick note from the USA about Elmer's PVA glue. You are likely to find two versions side by side. One will say "School Glue" the other just plain Elmer's glue. While it should be intuitively obvious, the "School Glue" is water-soluble - designed to be washed out of children's school uniforms. That's NOT the one you want! Experiment also with Elmer's "Carpenter's" - a resin base also good for cardstock. Otherwise, Merry Christmas (Boxing Day) and hopes for a New Year with cheaper DCC sound. George North Carolina Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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