RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2018 At a local meeting last Friday evening there was an amazing (even to me!) outburst from most people about Crossrail's trains and the fact that they will be running west of Maidenhead - a great pity that they weren't represented at the meeting chaired by a local MP but no doubt their ears were burning anyway (I hope). But more interesting was the revealing of Crossrail's latest intentions for services to/from Reading in the off-peak period (and presumably in the peak as well is there happens to be capacity for them?). Their service is currently intended to be 4 trains per hour to/from Reading and I believe all will running to/from Abbey Wood (as will all the Heathrow trains), no trains off the GE will run west of Paddington (which strikes me as a bit daft in some ways although it does at least keep all the delays in one basket so to speak). Two of the Reading trains will be 'all stations' stoppers which sounds like one of the dafter ideas I have ever heard as I would seriously wonder about the resource cost of taking such trains west of Maidenhead or the likelihood of anybody from anywhere east of Slough ever using them to get to stations west thereof). The other two trains will be semi-fast calling, as far as I could see, and as Mark Hopwood read out, at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton, and Ealing Broadway prior to diving underground. These latter trains provide an interesting mix with the GWR intention of running a similar frequency and stopping pattern but calling at Hayes instead of West Drayton - the real advantage of this (for those prepared to put up with travel on a Crossrail train) is that it leaves two viable routes for passengers travelling to LHR from several stations east of Reading. Personally i wouldn't fancy changing to an LHR train at Hayes as it strikes me as far too busy with local traffic to make a decent change to a train to the airport and although West Drayton is currently a very long way from being finished it currently offers quite a good interchange point with a 'bus route into LHR (it's definitely my daughter's preferred option to get to Terminal 5). I can but hope that in all of this the freight paths are properly left in place immediately behind the semi-fasts as notwithstanding NR's peculiar reduction of the maximum permitted speed of freight trains east of Reading they are still more than capable of running away from an all stations stopper or, looking at things from the other angle, suffering horrendous delays if they have to follow one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Fascinating to see the Kingsway Tram Tunnel being made use of. Speaking of historic structures playing a part, here are Elizabeth Line platform sliding doors awaiting despatch at the former LNWR, now Knorr Bremse Rail Services facility at Wolverton 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 At a local meeting last Friday evening there was an amazing (even to me!) outburst from most people about Crossrail's trains and the fact that they will be running west of Maidenhead ... While I agree the internal layout of the trains and the lack of toilets, is very far from ideal (a.k.a. - abysmal) for services running out that far from the central core; I think the locals can get as agitated as they like, but it won't make any difference. At least in the short term. Crossrail starts its initial services on the Great Western (in the temporary guise of TfL Rail), in just a few weeks time, when they take over the running of the Heathrow Connect service. The full Crossrail service to Maidenhead and Reading is due to start in just 20 months time (December next year). Do you think they are going to change the trains at this late stage? ....But more interesting was the revealing of Crossrail's latest intentions for services to/from Reading in the off-peak period (and presumably in the peak as well is there happens to be capacity for them?). The stopping pattern is very similar, if not exactly the same as they have been talking about since at least last summer. I don't see anything new in what you've reported Mike. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I thought the rules were any train service over (about) an hour had to have a toilet available? Or dont the rules apply to TfL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2018 I thought the rules were any train service over (about) an hour had to have a toilet available? Or dont the rules apply to TfL? The ATOC rules (actually guidelines) used to state 30 minutes. However they have been changed to exclude that time limit on 'metro like' services. Tfl - in response to my complaint - told me the average journey time on Crossrail will be 20 minutes which sounds a bit silly when my total journey time will potentially be nearer one hour to/from London. Doesn't worry me because if I get taken short I'll simply use the gangway area and smile at the candid camera. But such seems to be the strength of feeling that I suspect their effort to turn the clock back 60 years will not go down at all well and could lead to legal challenges. However if the GWR service materialises as promised and connects with the branches, as GWR currently wish to proceed on the basis of providing a single operator contact with passengers it will keep the heat off Crossrail. And it seems all sorts of respondents to the DafT call for comments on the new 'Great Western' franchise - including the relevant commuter groups etc - are seeking a retained non-Crossrail service off-peak as well as those during the peaks and have been asking GWR to provide such a service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Doesn't worry me because if I get taken short I'll simply use the gangway area and smile at the candid camera. Recommend you stay away from the gangway areas as those inevitably have floor joints where your effluent can penetrate and get access to working parts as well as making it difficult to clean. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted March 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2018 As long as people keep it to liquids and stop short of squeezing out a curler in the aisle. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Recommend you stay away from the gangway areas as those inevitably have floor joints where your effluent can penetrate and get access to working parts as well as making it difficult to clean. Regards Indeed. I believe that is one of the problems with the 313s along the south coast where thanks to the rather busy nightlife in Brighton, evening services see the inter car gangways used as makeshift Pissssoirs* * Those continental street urinal things Edited March 26, 2018 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 There seems to be some testing/route learning going on regularly now; because I have seen a number of 345s passing the Slough webcams over the last three days. (I am not that nerdy to watch all the time - honest; but I have been attempting to flush glaze a Bachmann 57ft suburban coach using my cow-udder fingers, and it makes a great background activity to watch while I go do-lally allow the glue to dry). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 There seems to be some testing/route learning going on regularly now; because I have seen a number of 345s passing the Slough webcams over the last three days. They seem to only be doing runs out to Maidenhead, running into the stabling sidings and then go back East, I haven't heard or seen any in Reading yet. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 There was one yesterday which seemed to be on a Reading depot to OOC run (according to RTT), but yes the majority are Maidenhead to Ealing or OOC, and back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 For the purposes of a little light entertainment and to trigger the Stationmaster .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 For the purposes of a little light entertainment and to trigger the Stationmaster .... I think the Stationmaster might be triggered more by the knowledge that TfL have started running empty trips with 345s between Paddington and Maidenhead (Reading?). I observed two today, as well as noting that they are limited to 90mph, slower than the 387s. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 I was only joking and trying to spread a little lightheartedness around the issue, with no ill will meant towards Mike (the Stationmaster). Note: It's only a month or so before the 345's are due to start operating to Heathrow, initially under the TfL Rail brand. Anyone know if the signalling problems have been resolved? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 as well as noting that they are limited to 90mph, slower than the 387s. But the relief lines are limited to 90 anyway for multiple units (and the 345s won't run all that often, if at all, on the main lines), so it's not a problem. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 When I was talking with a TfL chap at Hayes on Saturday, he seemed to think that the CrossRail units would initially run into the bay there, replacing the Hayes stoppers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 When I was talking with a TfL chap at Hayes on Saturday, he seemed to think that the CrossRail units would initially run into the bay there, replacing the Hayes stoppers. Apparently this is the 'contingency plan' along with keeping the 360s for a bit longer on the Heathrow route. Lots of detail here: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-cutting-fine/ There is also a contingency plan for the contingency plan apparently (in case the platforms at Hayes are not extended in time this month) involving using 7 car 345s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2018 But the relief lines are limited to 90 anyway for multiple units (and the 345s won't run all that often, if at all, on the main lines), so it's not a problem. Simon Yes, great shame about the Relief Line speeds not being upgraded for passenger trains (and being reduced for other trains - NR also appear to have one of those back to the past Deloreans on their books. And thanks Ron for the videao - I have already thought of a suitable challenge for our local MPs (various) which would be to send them for a trip on one of those things after a ride on a 387. But at least it's good to read that they'll be too slow to run on the Mains when the Reliefs are shut and no doubt their drivers will end up only signing the Reliefs in any case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 For the purposes of a little light entertainment and to trigger the Stationmaster .... How many forward facing seats are there on these trains, compared to sideways ones? If my wife's travel sickness is not unique to her, they will need extra cleaners to remove the vomit produced by those who do not take kindly to moving sideways at high speed in a crowded and sweaty carriage environment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted April 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yes, great shame about the Relief Line speeds not being upgraded for passenger trains (and being reduced for other trains - NR also appear to have one of those back to the past Deloreans on their books. And thanks Ron for the videao - I have already thought of a suitable challenge for our local MPs (various) which would be to send them for a trip on one of those things after a ride on a 387. But at least it's good to read that they'll be too slow to run on the Mains when the Reliefs are shut and no doubt their drivers will end up only signing the Reliefs in any case. I would have thought that route knowledge of the Mains as well as the Reliefs would be essential for Elizabeth line drivers given that NRs maintenance plan for the GWML route relies on being able to run a two track railway at times. I would also expect Elizabeth line drivers on the GEML to have knowledge of both pairs for the same reasons. Granted the lower top speed might make the pathing of 345s difficult - but if engineering work takes place train timings are usually amended anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 How many forward facing seats are there on these trains, compared to sideways ones? If my wife's travel sickness is not unique to her, they will need extra cleaners to remove the vomit produced by those who do not take kindly to moving sideways at high speed in a crowded and sweaty carriage environment. If that kind of thing was a widespread problem, TfL and just about every other metro system in the world would have found out decades ago.Not that it helps the small number of people who find traveling sideways a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 How many forward facing seats are there on these trains, compared to sideways ones? If my wife's travel sickness is not unique to her, they will need extra cleaners to remove the vomit produced by those who do not take kindly to moving sideways at high speed in a crowded and sweaty carriage environment. Not sure about numbers but there's a lot more sideways seats than forward facing, you can definitely squeeze more people on there. Seats are not that comfortable either although I think I said in a previous post when the trains packed it's easier to fight your way off than trying to squeeze through a packed aisle of people on the older trains. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) When I was on the project a few years ago what became the 345s were to be cleared for the Mains including making calls at those stations with a suitable platform. And as far as I'm aware crew route knowledge covers all tracks on a route if it covers any. The intention was to sustain the maximum service possible during engineering access or unplanned disruption - and given what's happening on their other lines I'd expect TfL to be pushing for some sort of "Night Elizabeth" service before very long. Edited April 5, 2018 by Edwin_m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Hi Mike A few months ago a construction manager and I did a survey of Maidenhead for the ASDO for the 80x's, we were both surprised to find that the platforms are only just long enough for an 8-car Class 387 (160m), and from what I remember of the scheme plan (I've been off work for a few weeks due to illness), the platforms are only 185ish metres long, so are too short for a 9-car Class 345 (205m). Simon I stand corrected. I just had a look at the platform lengths for Maidenhead, and discovered they are between 210m (Platforms 2 & 3) and 211m (Platforms 4 & 5) long, so long enough for a 9-car Class 345. Platform 1 is only 176m, so not long enough. Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 If that kind of thing was a widespread problem, TfL and just about every other metro system in the world would have found out decades ago. Not that it helps the small number of people who find traveling sideways a problem. I was careful to say "moving sideways at high speed". There are not many metro systems which regularly reach 90mph in normal service conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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