Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[65179]

1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

Apologies! 

No need to apologise. Broadly the same things are being covered on different threads at the moment, and I just meant that I'd quoted from that old thread elsewhere (not on this thread) and as it happens that thread includes the explanation for where that Blyth trailer came from. It would have been easier to deduce if all the photos were still present!

 

Regards,

Simon

[Daddyman]

17 minutes ago, 65179 said:

No need to apologise. Broadly the same things are being covered on different threads at the moment, and I just meant that I'd quoted from that old thread elsewhere (not on this thread) and as it happens that thread includes the explanation for where that Blyth trailer came from. It would have been easier to deduce if all the photos were still present!

 

Regards,

Simon

Ah, yes, I see that you mentioned it on Wright Writes, which I've had on "ignore" for 4 happy years!   

[rowanj]

Great to hear from David/Daddyman again. I posted the query on WW hoping to catch a wider audience than my own little thread. As it happens, no such luck, but I think I have got enough information to recognise how tricky it will be to build an accurate rake. But I think I have enough  to tackle my Kirk kit to build the driving trailer which went to Blyth after its' brief spell on the St Coombs Branch, It will be an interesting change, with its' Fox bogies and only a LH side window.

I assume the SC would change to E on transfer, The thtead seems to think there was only one pipe on the front rather than the usual 2, and Bill bedford thought it may have been decomissioned as a driving trailer. This would account for it being "wrong way round" on the photos I have. I dont have front end view to check.

Thanks again,

[65179]

3 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Ah, yes, I see that you mentioned it on Wright Writes, which I've had on "ignore" for 4 happy years!   

 

This is what I added to Wright Writes:

 

"I listed the NER driving trailers elsewhere, but the full set looks like (starting at the loco end):

 

First train: LNER D64 BT p&p conversion (D320 as converted), LNER D56 T (p&p modified),  D213 NER 52ft Driving brake third.

 

Second train: all NER, D213 52ft Driving BT, D178 49ft T, D162 52ft DBC.

 

Edit: new evidence suggests what I had as D65 should have been D64, both BT(4)s."

 

In the photo on this thread showing Fox bogied D320 E86997E, the loco is being controlled from the D213 trailer. That must mean that the D320 at least retains some of the p-p modifications in order for the D213's control gear to work, mustn't it?

 

I think the wrong way round thing is also just because the locos and the driving trailers had their usual orientation so that when extra driving trailers were used as strengtheners they were all the same way. Note, the D213 in the other photo is also 'the wrong way round' as well. All driving trailers being the same way round is described as the normal situation on the Craigendoran-Arrochar services in the previously linked thread.

 

Simon

[rowanj]

Sorry to return to this. I'm talking to Andy at Isinglass  about a Dia  320  Can anyone repost the photo of the coach taken at Blyth  in 1958 which was lost in the  web crash a couple of years ago? I am trying to understand the comments about only 1  sidewindow, and pipework, and to clarify what the front window shape was on this particular coach.

Was the odd 320 designation simply due the odd fitting of the Fox bogies?

Sometimes the research is harder than the actual modelling.

Edited October 18, 2023 by rowanj

[65179]

20 minutes ago, rowanj said:

Sorry to return to this. I'm talking to Andy at Isinglass  about a Dia  320  Can anyone repost the photo of the coach taken at Blyth  in 1958 which was lost in the  web crash a couple of years ago? I am trying to understand the comments about only 1  sidewindow, and pipework, and to clarify what the front window shape was on this particular coach.

Was the odd 320 designation simply due the odd fitting of the Fox bogies?

Sometimes the research is harder than the actual modelling.

 

It was presumably a D320 because it was converted from a 9ft wide D64 BT rather than the D317s which were from the 9ft 3in D65s.

 

If you look in Historic Carriage Drawings Vol.1 by Nick Campling or p.101 of LNER Standard Gresley Carriages, for example, you can see how the D317 conversions from D65 had an extra window added in front of the single guard's/driver's door on each side. The D320 shown in the picture you posted previously appears (although it's hard to be certain) to lack this window on the non-driver's side at least. The diagrams shown for D317 and possibly D320 seem to be wrong with regard to this window in that neither diagram shows them, and also shows end windows of the wrong pattern for D317 at least.

 

Simon

Edited October 18, 2023 by 65179

[rowanj]

16 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

It was presumably a D320 because it was converted from a 9ft wide D64 BT rather than the D317s which were from the 9ft 3in D65s.

 

If you look in Historic Carriage Drawings Vol.1 by Nick Campling or p.101 of LNER Standard Gresley Carriages, for example, you can see how the D317 conversions from D65 had an extra window added in front of the single guard's/driver's door on each side. The D320 shown in the picture you posted previously appears (although it's hard to be certain) to lack this window on the non-driver's side at least. The diagrams shown for D317 and possibly D320 seem to be wrong with regard to this window in that neither diagram shows them, and also shows end windows of the wrong pattern for D317 at least.

 

Simon

I believe this is the D320, and it seems pretty clear that there is no window ahead of the drivers door. This suggests strongly that there was only one extra window fitted on conversion, on the drivers side, Does this make sense - the original reference I saw was to "only 1 side window on the LH side".

[rowanj]

On 06/10/2023 at 17:14, jwealleans said:

I had to get back home to look at my D & S catalogue.  The kit you want is DS225, but he only specifies "Auto Coach (Elliptical)".  I think Mick B may have one, he might know what diagram is is.

 

@micklner?

If you get a chance , could you please check the catalogue and let me know what DS174 is?

 

John

[jwealleans]

14 minutes ago, rowanj said:

could you please check the catalogue and let me know what DS174 is?

 

I could almost do that one off the top of my head as I've built a few.  It's the D171 Luggage Van.

[65179]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

I believe this is the D320, and it seems pretty clear that there is no window ahead of the drivers door. This suggests strongly that there was only one extra window fitted on conversion, on the drivers side, Does this make sense - the original reference I saw was to "only 1 side window on the LH side".

 

That was my assumption. Do you have the Nov 2005 Model Rail referred to in the thread where that info came from? It sounds like the D320 was the one produced in the article. If not then a call to the Vintage Carriage Trust (https://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/magazines.htm ) to see if they have a copy seems quite appropriate!

[rowanj]

Armed with all the help from RMWebbers, and a great contact with a member of the Blyth and District MRC, an order has gone to Isinglass for a Dia 320 ,I'll post the main elements of the build , just for completeness, though I don't imagine it will be any different from any other Isinglass coach construction.

 

It's a while since I built a new loco kit, though I'm after a J21 and D49 Hunt, after which my roster will be (over) complete. Like many solo modellers, my locos don't get out much, so here are several builds being dragged past Little Bentom en-route to the scrapyard at North Road , Darlington. Many of the builds were described here, though the photos are long lost.

Edited October 20, 2023 by rowanj

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

Armed with all the help from RMWebbers, and a great contact with a member of the Blyth and District MRC, an order has gone to Isinglass for a Dia 320 ,I'll post the main elements of the build , just for completeness, though I don't imagine it will be any different from any other Isinglass coach construction.

 

It's a while since I built a new loco kit, though I'm after a J21 and D49 Hunt, after which my roster will be (over) complete. Like many solo modellers, my locos don't get out much, so here are several builds being dragged past Little Bentom en-route to the scrapyard at North Road , Darlington. Many of the builds were described here, though the photos are long lost.

 

I trust that it is only a "virtual" scrapyard!!!

 

John.

[Daddyman]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

D49 Hunt

Does it have to be a Hunt? I have (1) a PDK Shire only lightly started, and (2) a Hornby/Comet/Mike Edge (GC tender) mashup to rescue if you're interested? 

[rowanj]

15 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Does it have to be a Hunt? I have (1) a PDK Shire only lightly started, and (2) a Hornby/Comet/Mike Edge (GC tender) mashup to rescue if you're interested? 

Thanks for the offer, David,  However I already have a Shire, so it's the Hunt I want, They were actually more usual visitors to Tyneside, though not exactly common as muck. Last time I asked PDK, they were still out of stock.

[rowanj]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

I trust that it is only a "virtual" scrapyard!!!

 

John.

Well, I suppose that depends what I find when I get them into Works.The first pair have escaped the breakers torch though they have emerged looking scruffier than when they went in.

 

The short-bunker J72 is on a Mainly Trains chassis. It started out as Mainline body- I needed a pair of bodies to build the loco, If I was doing it again, I would either get a kit from ArthurK, or try to fit a bit more detail,especially internal motion, To see how much can be done, Mike Meggison is building a Highlevel chassis, beyond me, I'm afraid. I have it running well enough, though ideally I would rplace the chinese motor with something with a bit more oomph.

 

The N8 is the LRM kit, for some reason, these locos were turned out with mixed traffic lining though I have never found a photo of one on passenger duty. On the photo, the lining looks a bit rough, but I've managed to tone it down a bit. It came into Worksas a non-runner, but a bit of cleaning up, lubrication and pickup adjustment has it ready to go back into service,

 

 

[Daddyman]

Came across this on Flickr. Not sure if it helps at all: 

 

[rowanj]

On 21/10/2023 at 08:44, Daddyman said:

Came across this on Flickr. Not sure if it helps at all: 

 

 

 Nice photo, David. I think this must be on the Epping-Ongar service. I canot find any photos of this diagram on the Blyth trains, but who knows.

 

All the tanks I photographed earlier have escaped the breakers yard. Here are the last pair to go back into service- two of my favourirs built from ArthurK kits. Other than oiling and cleaning, all I needed to do was tone them down with my trusty Humrol Powders and give them a light spray with varnish to seal the work. For painting duffers like me, I can recommend this method to get a decent result. The locos are , of course, an N10 and J73.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by rowanj

[Daddyman]

18 minutes ago, rowanj said:

I canot find any photos of this diagram on the Blyth trains, but who knows.

Definitely somewhere south, yes. I thought it helped illustrate the extra window, missing on the Blyth ones.   

[65179]

22 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Definitely somewhere south, yes. I thought it helped illustrate the extra window, missing on the Blyth ones.   

 

As it notes on Flickr, the photo is taken at Blake Hall. This was the least patronised of the stations on the Epping-Ongar route.

 

Simon

[rowanj]

The final piece of evdence- the LH side of the Dia 320, with the drivers window clearly visible. And conveniently propelled by the loco issued RTR by Bachmann.TMC.

Edited October 24, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

There are several posts around on construction of Isinglass coaches around, so I'll only post  build updates  to describe any mods I find I need or want to do.

Tthe photo shows what you get.  In my case, I ordered the body/roof,  underframe kit and bogies. In addition, there is an interior kit, which I didnt want- I already have sufficient parts. A print with roof vents, and a dynamo and vacuum brake are supplied, though I'll probably replace them with castings from Dart/MJT. The drawing comes with the kit.

 

As described in earler threads, the driving trailer I wanted was a one-off, and this resulted in a helpful exchange of messages with Andy at Isinglass, in order to identify what specific parts were needed.  He has managed to produce just what I need, for which I'm very grateful.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

As advised, I wrote to D&S, and Dan replied with a price for the ex-NER driving trailer. It arrived today, courtesy of the first cheque I;ve written in years. Letters, s.a.e's, cheques.... those were the days.

 

Looking at the kit, the only obvious mod will be to the drivers  front window, In the kit, they are circles, but the coach was obviously modified at some point to fit the larger rectangles. Otherwise, it seems to be pretty similar in design to the other couple I built a few years ago. However, I dont think I will be able to replace the portholes with the rectangular windows. There is also a window in the space behind the driver which I dont see in the prototype, so the NER coach must have been modified at some stage.

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by rowanj

[Daddyman]

14 hours ago, rowanj said:

As advised, I wrote to D&S, and Dan replied with a price for the ex-NER driving trailer. It arrived today, courtesy of the first cheque I;ve written in years. Letters, s.a.e's, cheques.... those were the days.

So he still supplies 4mm kits? How much did it cost, if I may ask? This happened during the week: 

 

 

[rowanj]

56 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

So he still supplies 4mm kits? How much did it cost, if I may ask? This happened during the week: 

 

 

Less than a third of that, David.

Edited November 4, 2023 by rowanj

[John Tomlinson]

4 hours ago, Daddyman said:

So he still supplies 4mm kits? How much did it cost, if I may ask? This happened during the week: 

 

 

 

This looks like a classic case of a buyer with more money than sense, who has just  got carried away. I've seen various D&S coach kits go for around £70, but nothing like this!

 

John.