Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[micklner]

The LRM N8/9 has arrived, and with appropriate care looks as if a lovely model will result. I'll source Yeadon 49b to assist.

I'm struggling to obtain an N10 kit which,along with a D20, would complete the loco stud seen regularly at my chosen location. The Alexander and ArthurK versions seem currently unavailable. I'm wondering at the feasibility of converting an N8/9. Other than the smaller wheels, what else needs doing? Has anyone attempted something like this?

 

Looks like Arthur can solve your problem re the N10 !. Good info from Arthur re the old G5 body.

Edited January 14, 2018 by micklner

[Worsdell forever]

It is a common misconception that the cabs/tanks of the G5 were the same as the N8/9/10. They were not. The G5 had a wider can 'window'  opening. Whereas the cab side sheets  were the similar front and back of this the overall cab length on the G5 was some nine inches longer. In 4mm that is a difference of 3mm. The boiler was also smaller although the same diameter. The front sandbox/splashers are too bis and have a secondary splasher for  the coupling rod.

 

I would advise against using the G5 body for a N8/9/10 conversion.

 

My own N10 is still available although it is awaiting packing.

 

ArthurK

 

I think when the Nu-Cast G5 came out it would have been acceptable, a bit like the use of the triang chassis for many kits and the general lack of much fine detail. 

[rowanj]

I think when the Nu-Cast G5 came out it would have been acceptable, a bit like the use of the triang chassis for many kits and the general lack of much fine detail. 

 

I agree, Paul, but I thinks Mike's conversion still looks the part even today. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The 2 options for a J77 are the Dave Alexander largely-whitemetal or ArthurK's etch-lost wax castings. Having built the latter, and having the former in a box, I can make a sort of comparison, Arthur's kit has much more detail - the cab, for example, is exquisite. Dave's kit, being largely whitemetal, is probably slightly easier to build if you are content with a more basic kit, and I suppose you can add detail as required. There is little to choose between them for price .For the Fletcher cab version, Arthur's cab may be tricky to form for an inexperienced builder, whilst the whitemetal version, though needing some filler between the cab roof and sides, is probably simpler.

 

Mikemeg's thread shows what a lovely model can be made from Arthur's kit. I haven't seen an equivalent build of the Alexander version.

 

The photo of the Alexander chassis etch is a good example. In itself, It is a lovely etch, and should be a straightforward assembly. However I cant see any provision for other than OO, and there is no built in design for compensation. though I imagine those who need such things will be able to adapt it. Neither is their provision of the elaborate pipework between the rear and centre driving wheels on both sides. The firebox is a neat etch, but I think I preferred Arthur's separate etch of this part.

 

You pays your money... both kits should give you an excellent model of a J77.

 

 

[rowanj]

A quick update on the J77 chassis, as this is a "first" for me.

 

As I don't have any Markits 16mm wheels, I'm trying again with Gibsons. I've only used their driving wheels once, and totally failed to get the crankpins to work. So this time, I reamed out the hole and used Romford standard crankpins. They "cut" a thread in the plastic centres and I'll add a touch of superglue before the final fixing. As they are plastic centred, I'll need to be quick with the iron when fitting the washers. 

 

I'm sure others have done this before, though I've never seen it posted.  . I need to dress the coupling rods, but the chassis revolves as it should after the usual reaming of the holes in the rods.Gibsons wheels are, as most will know, a push-fit on the axle, and need quartering by eye - no useful square as per Romfords, I believe they can work loose if removed several times, so I hope I'll only have to do it once more, after the chassis is painted,

 

Edited on grounds of senility -- thanks, Paul

, 

Edited January 20, 2018 by rowanj

[Worsdell forever]

Assuming you mean Gibson wheels, Slaters only do 7mm and above I think.

[RBAGE]

Hello John (or anyone else that might help),

I'm still struggling with the LRM J25.

Part of my problem is that there is no identification of parts on the etches or numbered photocopy of the etch.

That's not such a big issue when dealing with the major parts but with things like parts 87 (firebox fronts), I haven't got the faintest idea which parts is being talked about. This is only going to get worse when I look at some of the other nondescript parts that are coming up.

 

For the front handrail holders, once you fit the smokebox door, the wholes for the holders are partially obscured. How did you overcome this?

 

What possessed LRM to come up with a smokebox door with no detail so you have to fit hinge and strapping? It is obviously a smokebox door that fits any number of models but it's a job that would have saved a bit of heartache if moulded. Anyway, job done now.

 

Anyway, back to the firebox fronts, do you have any detail of the etch or can you point me in the right direction for the firebox fronts?

 

Regards,

 

Bob 

[rowanj]

Bob.

 

 It sounds as though some instructions may be missing. On mine, there were 3 photocopies on A4 of the etches, with the parts numbers annotated. I really needed them, as the etched parts are all over the place, spread across the etches. I imagine John would send them if you e.mail him. Foolishly, I have ditched mine.

 

Firebox fronts- I couldn't find them, and fabricated them from scrap etch based on the cab photos of Mike's build.  Smokebox door - I agree, and I'm afraid I used a Dave Alexander casting from my (rapidly diminishing) spares box.

 

I don't recall any problems with the outer wrapper, though the inner needed drilling for the handrail knobs.

[RBAGE]

Bob.

 

 It sounds as though some instructions may be missing. On mine, there were 3 photocopies on A4 of the etches, with the parts numbers annotated. I really needed them, as the etched parts are all over the place, spread across the etches. I imagine John would send them if you e.mail him. Foolishly, I have ditched mine.

 

Firebox fronts- I couldn't find them, and fabricated them from scrap etch based on the cab photos of Mike's build.  Smokebox door - I agree, and I'm afraid I used a Dave Alexander casting from my (rapidly diminishing) spares box.

 

I don't recall any problems with the outer wrapper, though the inner needed drilling for the handrail knobs.

Thanks for that. I'll stop looking for anything that might look the part. 

 

The handrail knobs I'm on about are the 3 on the smoke box front. There are 3 half etched holes which I've drilled for the knobs but when you fit the smokebox door the drilled holes are partly covered.

[Worsdell forever]

Thanks for that. I'll stop looking for anything that might look the part. 

 

The handrail knobs I'm on about are the 3 on the smoke box front. There are 3 half etched holes which I've drilled for the knobs but when you fit the smokebox door the drilled holes are partly covered.

 

I don't think you should drill all three, the top one will be for a continuous handrail used on the extended smokebox of a superheated boiler and the two lower ones for a separate smokebox front handrail for the short smokebox.

[RBAGE]

I don't think you should drill all three, the top one will be for a continuous handrail used on the extended smokebox of a superheated boiler and the two lower ones for a separate smokebox front handrail for the short smokebox.

Thanks for the information.

However, the loco I am modelling is 65645. Built as 1961 with a saturated boiler, it was later fitted with a superheated boiler. The photograph I have from the BR period has it with a short smokebox. Presumably the superheater was reversed.

The photograph has it with a separate handrail on the smokebox front. 

[Worsdell forever]

Thanks for the information.

However, the loco I am modelling is 65645. Built as 1961 with a saturated boiler, it was later fitted with a superheated boiler. The photograph I have from the BR period has it with a short smokebox. Presumably the superheater was reversed.

The photograph has it with a separate handrail on the smokebox front. 

 

It will have reverted to a saturated boiler, most if not all were but some may have kept their long smokebox, which shows it's always best to build from a photo or two.

[ArthurK]

65645 was fitted with a saturated, short smokebox, boiler when withdrawn. I have two photos of this loco one at Low Fell and one at Gateshead shed. You will note that the smoke box handrail knobs are very close to the flange of the door.

 

 

 

I can help with the smokebox door if you are wanting a replacement, white metal and full detail. Send me a PM if you are.

 

ArthurK 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RBAGE]

65645 was fitted with a saturated, short smokebox, boiler when withdrawn. I have two photos of this loco one at Low Fell and one at Gateshead shed. You will note that the smoke box handrail knobs are very close to the flange of the door.

 

Book5 31_3.JPG

 

Book5 52_5_2.jpg

 

I can help with the smokebox door if you are wanting a replacement, white metal and full detail. Send me a PM if you are.

 

ArthurK 

Thanks ArthurK.

Lovely photographs. Especially the one at Low Fell. This will be useful for weathering. What do you think the chalk mark is. "TANK EMPTY" maybe?

Looks like a large emblem on the tender. That's surprising.

I'll be in touch.

Bob

Edited January 21, 2018 by RBAGE

[rowanj]

A couple of photos of the Alexander version of the J77 chassis. As expected, it made up easily using the Poppy's jig. I imagine it was produced by 52F on behalf of Dave

 

.Only the brakes need added, so it can be seen that, compared with Arthur's version, it is a little bare. I'll add the pipework between the centre and rear drivers, and have a go at the internal motion, not that the latter is ever seen again once the loco is completed.

 

There is a spacer immediately above the centre drivers, so I'll assemble my Compact+ gearbox next and see if it goes in. I suspect that spacer may be a problem, however, and I can see myself cutting it out and replacing it with a flat piece 15mm or so further back.

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hello John (or anyone else that might help),

I'm still struggling with the LRM J25.

Part of my problem is that there is no identification of parts on the etches or numbered photocopy of the etch.

That's not such a big issue when dealing with the major parts but with things like parts 87 (firebox fronts), I haven't got the faintest idea which parts is being talked about. This is only going to get worse when I look at some of the other nondescript parts that are coming up.

 

For the front handrail holders, once you fit the smokebox door, the wholes for the holders are partially obscured. How did you overcome this?

 

What possessed LRM to come up with a smokebox door with no detail so you have to fit hinge and strapping? It is obviously a smokebox door that fits any number of models but it's a job that would have saved a bit of heartache if moulded. Anyway, job done now.

 

Anyway, back to the firebox fronts, do you have any detail of the etch or can you point me in the right direction for the firebox fronts?

 

Regards,

 

Bob 

Bob,

 

I suggest you contact LRM as John recommends.

 

Jol

[rowanj]

For anyone thinking of building the Dave Alexander J77 kit, here are a couple of things which I came across on the chassis,

 

As I suspected, the spacer between the centre wheels made it impossible to get the Highlevel Compact+ to fit. Indeed, I cant see how any gearbox or motor mount would fit. though I suppose someone has managed. All the spacers go directly below the driving axles, and as I will be using conventional wire pickups. there is no spacer on which to stick the paxolin strips.

 

I cut out the centre spacer and fabricated 2 new ones to in the "conventional" space, at the same time removing half of the etched springs as recommended by Tony Wright. Of course, for those using Gibson plunger pickups, none of that would be necessary, but that system is beyond me at this stage.

 

I have fabricated, from 15A fuse wire, a representation of the pipework by the ashpan, using photos in Yeadon as a guide. It's certainly not prototypical, but looks OK at normal viewing distance.

 

I'm in 2 minds about the inside valve gear. I'd quite like to have something in there, but I haven't got a photo, those in Yeadon of actual locos showing how little there is to see "side-on", and once the model is built it , it is invisible

 

 

 

John.

Edited January 25, 2018 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The chassis was all but completed, until I realised I hadn't fitted the sandpipes. so a bit of scraping off some paint will be needed. As with Arthur's version, there is almost no room under the chassis to fit pickups. I couldn't bet a good connection behind the rims so resorted to bending them outside. This gave a good electrical connection, but cause problems through pointwork. The solution was to bend them, still on the outside of the rim, up through almost 45 degrees, towards the footplate, if that makes sense. Anyway, I now have a smooth running chassis, picking up on all 6 wheels, with the Mashima motor giving a suitably modest top speed.

 

The boiler, chimney and dome have yet to be fixed, but I like to see a model in this state. The photo of the loco at North Blyth in 1958 is the prototype for my model. Compared to Arthurs version, the Alexander chimney looks "chunky" but does seem a good match for that on the photo.

 

The next, and last, shots should be of the completed loco.

 

 

[KalKat]

Could an answer to pickups on this be from the top of the wheels  where the tanks cover them?

 

 

 

Emma

[rowanj]

Could an answer to pickups on this be from the top of the wheels  where the tanks cover them?

 

 

 

Emma

 

I think the technical term is "bottom-scratchers", Emma, and this method was suggested when I built the ArthurK version and had the same problem.  I did try it, but just couldn't find the space to fit the paxolin and pick-ups without it all shorting on the body. Nothing wrong with the system - just my ham-fistedness,

 

My method seems to look and work OK, but keeping the wheels clean will be more important than ever .

 

John

[rowanj]

So far, so good. This pic was taken literally watching paint dry. Other than numbering, I still need to fit 3-link couplings as well as my usual "goalpost" to act as the working coupling, and coal. Wire to represent the sandpipes was added to the chassis, but the brake rods below the chassis have not yet been fitted. I'm thinking of using microstrip for these rather than wire, as there is little room to avoid the pickups. We shall see.

 

 

[micklner]

Insulate the the pick ups with plastic microbore tubing plenty on eBay. MIcrostrip wouldn't last two minutes on a working chassis.

[rowanj]

To complete this thread, here lieth the Fletcher Cab J77. It's churlish to compare the Alexander model with Arthur's etched version. The latter is much more detailed, and, when I built the Worsdell cab version a couple of years ago, I found it a splendid introduction to etched kit loco building. Dave's is much simpler, and whitemetal makes the thing look bulkier, but it too is basically sound, and has built up into an acceptable layout loco. There is more detail to add to Dave's if you want or need to, but I found that, along with the necessary research, half the fun. Price-wise, their is nothing in it, though I think Dave does slightly larger "runs" of his kits and his may be easier to get hold of. Arthur will correct me if I'm wrong, and if so, I apologise.

 

I think one's personal preference for either whitemetal or brass etch is probably the determining factor. I recommend both kits without reservation.

 

As I said earlier, replicating these builds is unlikely to add to anyone's store of knowledge, so I'll only do so if something peaks my interest. On the other hand, I'm about to build a couple of Southern Pride Newton-Chambers Car Carriers, and I haven't found a recent description for those, so I'll illustrate that on this thread, just for continuity.

 

Thanks again for the help given.

Edited February 4, 2018 by rowanj

[rowanj]

NEWTON-CHAMBERS CAR CARRIER

 

There has been some discussion on another thread about teaching grannies to suck eggs, so will grannies please look away now.

 

When I was a spotter on Tyneside, the Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier was a regular sight, and I always admired the model on Stoke Summit. I built 3 Newton-Chambers vehicles from Southern Pride kits, and added brass sides to RTR donors to give the RFO, FO and BSO which tailed the car carriers. I now have the kits for 2 more Car Carriers, and this will complete the representation of the train - 8 coaches is all my layout can comfortably accommodate.

 

The kit is pretty old, but I can't find a build online. I'm sure there must have been one, so sorry, grannies.

 

The 3 photos show the first one I built 5 years or so ago. I'll see if I can make any useful upgrades as I get on with the kits, which I'll build together.

 

Instructions are quite detailed. On my first 3, I did all the bends by hand or in a vice.  Some were easy, and some were not. This time round, I'll use my bending bars. Almost all the etched body and chassis parts have slots and tabs to ease construction.

 

You start with the well, which is just a box, and can be formed by hand. The floor has 2 bends of 90 degrees along each length.  That's as far as I'll get today.

 

John

Edited February 3, 2018 by rowanj

[RBAGE]

John,

How fortuitous, your recent J25 build prompted me to start my own London Road Models kit.

I also have 5 Newton and Chambers to build. I'll watch with interest and hope you encourage me to make a start in this direction.

Bob