Family 8x4 OO layout - Trains running again.

[class"66"]

Looking realy good this!!

wil follow ..

[Jaggzuk]

A few productive evenings and one full day has allowed me to get most of the track laid!!

 

I started by laying the track at the station area first, as this alignment would dictate the actual position of the curved loops.  I printed out the track plan (again) and taped this to the baseboard.  I then cut and pinned all the flexi-track and points on top of the plan.  Once happy, I then pulled the plan out from underneath the track tearing it round all the track pins.  I was then free to set out all the gradient curves from the station approaches and this did not need any plans, just a mix of setrack 2nd and 3rd radius and a bit of flexi over the flyover.  Best tool used so far, Xuron Track Cutters, well worth the money and have made track laying much more of a pleasure!!  http://xuron.com/index.php/main/consumer_products/3/13

 

Once all the cures were in, I then finished off with the low level junction and then finally the lower goods yard.

 

All that is now left is the outer loop which I have decided to do in concrete sleeper, which I now need to buy.

 

I am really pleased with the station curves and the approach curves to the flyover.

 

Next, I have made a start with wiring.  Started with the station area droppers and also had a bit of a production line pre-wiring up all the Seep point motors.  These will be fed up through holes pre cut in the original baseboard which is 40mm under the station level.  Next best tool used, Knipex wire strippers. http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1363&groupID=1383

 

We now have full DC power to the loops and a bit of temp track on the outer loop means the boys (and me) can play trains again.

 

 

General view of laid track on rubberised cork underlay.  All the underlay has been stuck down with PVA glue.

 

 

Mix of concrete and wooden sleeper track.  I was not sure on using concrete sleeper track, but with the right weathering I hope it will look the part.

 

 

Point motor holes and DCC track droppers.

 

 

Point motor pre-wiring.  The two motors with less wires will be paired up with a 6 wired version for the two ladders either side of the station.  As all my points are insulfrog, I will be using the switch on the point motor for LED routing indication on a mimic control panel.

 

Next task is to carry on with track droppers and start to connect them to the DCC Bus.  This will then mean I can test all the track for electrical connections in DCC before I start with ballasting; mmm need to find some smart ballasting tools me thinks for that job!

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[Chris64B]

Looking good! Did you pin or glue the track down?

[Jaggzuk]

I have only pined the track so far and left the heads slightly proud until I have done all the wiring and checked there are no derailments areas. Then I shall do all the ballasting after which I will remove all the pins as the PVA glue and ballast should hold all the track in placd. The only exception will be where I have curved joints in the flexi track I will leave the pins in just to ensure the fish plate joints all stay true.

 

In the main this is because I either end up bending the sleepers down by over hammering or you have unsightly pin heads everywhere.

[Jaggzuk]

After get one more length of concrete sleeper track, last night I managed to complete all the track laying,  which I am really please with. 

The other event today was the postman delivered a rather nice blue box containing a superb Class 20 in red stripe Railfreight livery.  This was quite a bargain from Train Shack, me thinks, at £81 with free postage! http://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Bachmann-32-045-Class-20-20118-Saltburn-by-the-Sea-BR-Railfreight-Red-Stripe-Bachmann-32-045.html    Some £16 cheaper than others on-line. So now with my other BR Blue 20, I can now run some rather nice double header MGRs or Speedlink services; one of my real days-gone-by passions.

 

Back to the track,  everything appears to run OK round all the loops, but is is obvious I need to get some practice at being a signalman - two trains, one DC controller and conflicting set routes equals an oops! It does make me think about the possibility of creating some form of simple route setting protection.  Perhaps a simple dead section of track which is energised when the point is changed?  Any suggestions? 

I am now going to focus on all the electrics and getting the points motored up and linked with a control panel,  yet to be made.

 

 

Class 20 double head on MGRs, running on new concrete sleepered track.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[vulcan product fan]

The twenty's look great even better on coal trains pal 

[Gilloverland]

Some advice with wiring diagrams for interlocking here:

 

http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/dcc-advice-11-wiring-pointwork-and-special-track-conditions-for-dc-or-dcc

[Jaggzuk]

My new home for the next couple of nights.

 

Not being able to flip the layout on to its' side, for fear of bending it along the joints, I am going to have to solder all the droppers to the DCC Bus on my back!!

 

I have completed the soldering of 35 pairs of droppers to the track around the layout and installed the Bus. So far I have connected 15 pairs to the Bus.

 

Station droppers

 

Droppers soldered to the DCC Bus

 

We also had a great time testing all the laid track today on DCC; surprisingly I am able to electrify the whole layout (excluding the engine shed and headshunt) with just three track connections! Testing took the form of slow and fast running the shorted loco, a Hornby 0-4-0 Southern steam and the longest, a Hornby Railroad Class 66. There we no derailments and only one dead section of track was found leading in to the lower good yards. This was solved by temporally connecting the adjacent droppers.

 

I am really pleased that my track laying is up to scratch and the curved radii and the Settrack insulfrog points have not caused me any problems

 

A quick question to end with, DCC Bus, should I go a fully connected loop or a single radial bus with dead end? Any advice?

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[Removed a/c]

I have heard that end to end is best for a bus, not sure why though. 

 

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#On

[Jaggzuk]

A quick update of the track plan to show all the dropper locations.  This was quite a good exercise as I have found one dropper which is the wrong side of a fish plate joint for the toe of a point.  A quick solder of the joint should rectify this.

 

I have applied the following "rules" for dropper locations:

1. At the toe of every point, if not at the toe, then the point fish plates are soldered to the joining track with a dropper feed.
2. A feed to every line that ends at a buffer stop.
3. A feed to every section of track at approx 3 foot intervals.
4. And as I have used quite a bit of Setrack for my curves, I have added a feed to make sure there is no single piece of track without a soldered connection either from a dropper or by soldering fish-plate joints to adjacent dropper fed track.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[RFS]

I would advise against soldering the fishplates to the rails.  In hot weather the track will expand, and if there's no gap in the rail due to the rails being soldered together, you could end up with buckled track.

[Jaggzuk]

Very valid point and as the layout is in our converted attic it does get a bit hot up there. So I will not solder any more joints. Fortunately I have only soldered a handful of joints so far.

[ess1uk]

Like what you are doing.

[Jaggzuk]

We have a name at last for the layout! After some consultation with son number 1, the Station is to be called Fox Wood Park.

 

Basically I asked him what his favourite animal was and where does he like to play and this is what we ended up with. Mind you we did have a couple of false starts one being Guinea Pig Attic.

 

Next is to find names for the two tunnels and the junction under the flyover.

[Chris64B]

Looks like good progress! Done any more scenics?

[Jaggzuk]

No more scenics yet Chris, still focusing on getting all the track wired and points motors installed everything tested.  Then I might start on ballasting.

 

So, with regard to point motors, I have picked up a few tips on how to install Seep point motors during my arm chair research for the layout, I thought I would share how I have decided to it on our layout.  Here is a bit of a staged process:

 

I have pre soldered a set of six wires and a choc block to the point motor to make post installation wiring up much easier.

 

All ready for the motor to be pulled up.

 

1. First you need to centre the point motor armature and tie-bar pin using either a notched out wooden clothes peg or, in my case a blob of blue tack as the peg was too long to go up the round holes in my lower baseboard.
    
2. Next you need to wedge the point blades such that they are mid throw/centred using something like plasticard or a wooden slip.  See web articles:
   
   http://www.railwayblog.kevinappleby.co.uk/fitting-seep-point-motors-1059/ 
   http://www.cravenmodels.com/SEEP.htm (1/4 of the way down the page)
   
   Steps 1 and 2 are key to ensuring that the point motor has an equal throw when full installed.
    
3. To get the best alignment of the motor such that it is perpendicular to the alignment of the track, I drilled two holes to the toe end of the point, at the side of the sleeper has the holes for a peco point motor fixing lugs. I then posted two pieces of stiff wire down the holes, orange wire in the Photo.  What this gives is an alignment guide for the Seep Motor PCB to rest against when located. 
    
4. I have decided to try and deaden the sound of the point motor throw reverberating through the baseboard by using double-sided foam sticky pads (No Nails extra strong) to attach the point motor to the baseboard underside.  It also serves as a quick way to fix the motor in place before using screws as a second fix if required.  Note in the photo I have not pealed the tape of the foam pad there is a reason for this, see steps 6 & 7.
    
5. The best way I have seen how to get the tie-bar pin up through the small hole in the tie bar from under a baseboard is to follow this Chaps idea.  And yes it really works and is so simple! 
   
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k5ivF1PbEQ.
   
   So basically you tape a piece of thin to the metal pin and then pull it up through the tie bar hole and then hold the pin tight up with a peg or blue tack.
    
6. Mark off on the pin the top of the tie bar with a permanent marker pen so that it can be cut.
    
7. Drop the point motor out, (this is why the tape was not pealed of the sticky pad).
    
8. Cut the pin to the right length using a micro disk cutter as it is hardened steel.  Do not use wire cutters as you will just end up notching them and especially do not use Xuron track cutters!!  You can try to cut in-situ with a disk cutter but you run the risk of melting the tie bar (as I did on my first installation).
    
9. Now remove the sticky pad cover tape, re attach the pull wire to the now shortened pin and pull the motor up, this time aligning the PCB with the guide wires and then stick the motor in place.  Use screws if required.
    
10. Removed the track wedges and pull wire.
     
11. Wire up the motor and test the point throw, which should be nice and tight with a good clonk sound.
     
12. If you use the Seep motor with the integral switch, wire this up as well and check that the switching action works with no shorting.

 

So there you go a bit long winded, but it has worked for me and made life a bit easier, only 12 to go.
 

 

I also decided to make a little tester so that I can wire it up to each installed motor and check it works.  I just used two push to make buttons and two LEDs which are changed by the Seep integral switch.

 

 

Point motor tester with switching LEDs

 

 

Tester attached to a point motor

 

Hope this is of use

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[LongRail]

I have a similar problem in not being able to turn my layout over and to avoid the back ache issue purchased wooden seat/back from ikea I purchased the seat only and not the frame.

if put the seat on the floor and sit on it your weight makes it stable and the back provides the support so you can work under the layout

[Jaggzuk]

Had a wee accident installing the point motor on one of the curved points while trying to enlarge the baesboard hole for the tie bar from underneath. I managed to snag the little cover plate to the over center spring and completely mess it up; not recoverable!

 

Really annoyed as this was a brand new one for the layout.

 

So, two options, buy another one, or try a different point motor, as I have both a Tortoise and a Fulgurex motor in my box of bits; bought many years ago.

 

I am quite happy to try either motor as it will serve as a trial for future conversions of Peco points. But the big issue I have it how to deal with the now slightly lose tie bar and point blades. Not the side to side movement as the stall motor will deal with that, it is the longitudinal slack I need to eliminate. Any advice?

[Vistisen]

My new home for the next couple of nights.

 

32 IMGP0004.JPG

 

 

Not being able to flip the layout on to its' side, for fear of bending it along the joints, I am going to have to solder all the droppers to the DCC Bus on my back!!

 

I have completed the soldering of 35 pairs of droppers to the track around the layout and installed the Bus. So far I have connected 15 pairs to the Bus.

 

33 IMGP0009.JPG

Station droppers

 

34 IMGP0012.JPG

Droppers soldered to the DCC Bus

 

 

We also had a great time testing all the laid track today on DCC; surprisingly I am able to electrify the whole layout (excluding the engine shed and headshunt) with just three track connections! Testing took the form of slow and fast running the shorted loco, a Hornby 0-4-0 Southern steam and the longest, a Hornby Railroad Class 66. There we no derailments and only one dead section of track was found leading in to the lower good yards. This was solved by temporally connecting the adjacent droppers.

 

I am really pleased that my track laying is up to scratch and the curved radii and the Settrack insulfrog points have not caused me any problems

 

A quick question to end with, DCC Bus, should I go a fully connected loop or a single radial bus with dead end? Any advice?

Please wear a pair of cheap reading glasses while doing this. I can very close to dropping solder in my eye while lying under my baseboards!

[Jaggzuk]

Great advice on the upside down soldering risk but for me age has already got me there, been a glasses wearer for sometime. Plus I always made sure my head was well to the side of the soldering zone.

 

The other option for safety, just buy an inexpensive pair of wraparound safety glasses from any DIY store.

[Vistisen]

Great advice on the upside down soldering risk but for me age has already got me there, been a glasses wearer for sometime. Plus I always made sure my head was well to the side of the soldering zone.

 

The other option for safety, just buy an inexpensive pair of wraparound safety glasses from any DIY store.

Using a hot glue gun can be just as dangerous.

[Kenton]

 

So, two options, buy another one, or try a different point motor, as I have both a Tortoise and a Fulgurex motor in my box of bits; bought many years ago.

 

 

 

Don't worry you will not be the first or the last to do that.

 

The springs can be replaced but it is a real eye bender to do it. Without the keeper plate or with te base damaged near impossible.

 

The Tortoise is an excellent point motor and will solve the problem of holding the switch rail against its corresponding stock rail. But do change the rather flimsy springy wire supplied with the motor to a more substantial spring wire 25swg is the usual recommended. The Tortoise is an easy motor to drive from a 9v plug in transformer/recharger and if wired through option 3 on the instruction sheet very easy to operate and wire up.

 

Although the tortoise will hold the switch rail fairly tight to the stock rail you shouldn't rely on that only for electrical continuity. All my points are electrofrog and in all cases I have used one of the inbuilt Tortoise switches to change the frog polarity.

 

However, I have to add that if the point has been damaged badly then replacement should be a considered option. Also important if the point is on a critical busy part of the layout. I would hazard a guess that most derailments happen over points and most of those are due to distortion of the point during laying track (pins through sleepers, or twisting to force geometry to plan and nearby track). Points are always going to be harder to exchange once you have ballasted.

 

Oh and don't forget a Tortoise does not require a CDU or instant off-on-off like Seep/Peco solenoid points so having one Tortoise and lots of different other mechanisms could be challenging in terms of wiring simplicity.

[Module00]

realy good thread. This project is really interesting. Nice layout.

[Jaggzuk]

Once more back under the layout we go....

This time it is to connect some 6 core cable to all the point motor choc blocks. I have striped and tinned all the wire so that they are a bit more resistant to the screw connections in the blocks.  Not the best colours in the world, a bit too pastel for my liking, but hay ho it was second hand cable, which cost me a could of pints!

The cables then run to where the control panel will go; centrally on the station side of the baseboard. . I will terminate and solder on to Tag Strips to the inside edge of thr baseboard ready for connection to the control  panel wiring.

And control panel well there's another project to consider,  more on that later. 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk

[Jaggzuk]

An exciting purchase has now been delivered.

 

 

This is the complete airbrush and compressor kit form http://www.airbrushheaven.co.uk/products/?product_id=667 at what I would say was a fantastic price! I cannot fault the company that sells these kits, I phoned to check a few things before ordering and the chap that I talked to (Martyn), was very helpful and knowledgeable of the products and was a modelling himself.

 

My kit is short of one item (planned), the cleaning pot, which will be sent separately when stock comes in from China, (Chinese New Year delays). This is why the kit is currently shown as out of stock on the website. But by contacting them directly, they arranged for the kit to be sent part complete.

 

I went for this kit following the excellent review posted by Rumblestripe on RMWeb http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107480-so-i-bought-a-cheap-airbrush-kit/

 

I will post result of the airbrushes being used when I have a go with them. I did try the compressor out and I was very impressed just how quiet it sounded, bu then as I have never had one not a real comparison ;-0

 

One thing to note, if you looking around on the Net for such a kit, on ebay, Airbrush Heaven (airbrushheavenuk2015) also trades under an older name, that of dmtrading2011, but the products are same and all come from Crewe. Their main website shows all products sold, more than on ebay.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jaggzuk