moose4675 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Hi Folks, I am looking to re-number a Hornby R2504 M7 to a Mid 50's West Country shed allocated version. While sifting through my numerous books searching for a suitable loco number I was wondering whether anyone was aware of a web site where the variations (PP, smokebox door dogs, frame length etc) of individual loco's were detailed? I am specifically looking for an Exmouth Junction or Plymouth Friary allocated loco during 1954-56. R2504 has a long frame, is PP fitted and has smokebox dogs. A front view of the loco in photographs will normally offer the required information for PP fitting and smokebox dogs but I find it quite awkward unless the view is spot on to see whether it is long or short framed. Many thanks in advance. Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 The SEMG site might be a good starting point - http://www.semgonline.com/steam/m7class_01.html And the BR database should help with allocations - http://www.brdatabase.info/index.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 If I have interpreted the SeMG data page correctly, locos in the second column were built with the longer overhang. Edit just to say, as you probably know, that Irwell do a book on M7s. I suspect this might hold all the details you seek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 A front view of the loco in photographs will normally offer the required information for PP fitting and smokebox dogs but I find it quite awkward unless the view is spot on to see whether it is long or short framed. I am quite surprised that you say that. The front end difference between long- and short-framed M7s was significant and is usually obvious in any front end view. Only if photos were taken dead square on or from below footplate level is it usually difficult to tell and such photos are rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 I am quite surprised that you say that. The front end difference between long- and short-framed M7s was significant and is usually obvious in any front end view. Only if photos were taken dead square on or from below footplate level is it usually difficult to tell and such photos are rare. Which gets the OP precisely where? What may be obvious to you is not to him. Let's help not ridicule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose4675 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Thanks for the help Ian and RFS its very much appreciated. Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 If it is pull-push fitted, then it is a long frame. That doesn't help with non-pull-push locos, though. Don't forget to keep an eye on the sandbox arrangement differences too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Each batch was slightly different. Pp as above all long frames. I would try and get Bradley's Drummond classes and Irwells m7 classes. They are a minefield to get right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2016 Long frame M7s don't seem to have featured much in Devon, I think you would be limited to a handful of examples throughout their life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I think there was only one at the time the op stipulates, 1954-6, and I think it was 30374, one of the X14's, but not p&p fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2016 Cant recommend the Irwell Press book enough - for anyone wanting to accurately model a particular member of the class (indeed of any engines) its vital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2016 30021 is a good candidate. From the records I have from the Midland Railway Society (?!), she was at 72A 3/51 to 9/61. Also 30045 from 9/51 to 12/62 (withdrawal) SBDD , 30046 from 1/1/48 to 2/59 (withdrawal) SBDD. All appear in Branch lines to Seaton and Sidmouth, Middleton Press, so even if the MRS records are not totally accurate, photos show them in East Devon in the 50's. SBDD = smoke box door dogs. Not sure about 30021 as she is running bunker first in the photo. 30021 only had a dart, no dogs at the bottom. http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p1018623573/h829AB6B#h6589c3a1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose4675 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Great info folks, thank you. I shall certainly be having a look at the irwell press book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Which gets the OP precisely where? What may be obvious to you is not to him. Let's help not ridicule. I didn't mean to ridicule the OP but wondered whether he was actually looking at the right thing to determine short as opposed to long frame. I didn't write idly either, I looked at well over 50 photos of M7s from the front end and in only one of those views - an over the stops lowish view at Seaton(?) - was it not immediately obvious (apart from the fact that it was p/p-fitted) whether it was long or short frame. But as others have said M7s are/were an absolute minefield and it wouldn't surprise me if every loco was different in one respect or another by the mid-1950s. They are definitely one of those classes where it is important to find as many photos as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted January 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2016 The Bradley book is long out of print but can be found by an internet search. Bill Hudson books currently have a secondhand one for £35. Compared to some silly prices asked for any of the 4 volumes in the series, IMHO that's not too unreasonable. That's an excellent price, grab it before someone else does! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 A quick note that the long frame series, with sandboxes below the footplate, weren't motor fitted. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted June 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2016 Actually, at least one was, 30378 did very late on in its life. I have even made a model of it: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87450-Hornby-m7-questions-and-variations-was-chassis/&do=findComment&comment=1687308 And here it is at Haywards Heath of all places! https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/8612972820/in/photolist-e86JKo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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