Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[The Black Hat]

Problem with these new models is that they are getting more intracate and detailed. As a result, opening up models that used to be able to be opened up, taken apart and had detailed added isnt quite so easy as it once was. Things break and with details now including interior details and fittings it only makes things more complex. Yes some might not want DCC fittings and lights, but the market and the hobby is fast moving in a direction where everything needs to be compatable to run on either system, so that means DCC is a must. Lighting again is needed to be included as it was originally quoted. If its not, the temptation is there to go for a simple Hornby one that is already available.

 

The idea here is that the new Oxford one trumps this and has detail, lighting and looks that move a MK. 3 model onto the levels being produced for other items that are high in detail and ability to operate on a DCC system.

[Roy Langridge]

Lights are a definite yes for me. Whilst I can do it myself, I have better things to do with my limited modelling time than fit lights to a dozen Mk3s.

 

Roy

Edited September 14, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[fozzy280472]

I'm in the non lit camp here , whilst I can understand people wanting lit coaches I'm sure there's a large group who aren't interested in lighting .

For me I have over 20 on pre order and will be ordering another 8 when the hst trailers appear. If as someone above stated it could possibly add maybe another £10 per coach to have lighting it becomes a large amount of extra cash for a feature I don't require.

I wonder whether Oxford could maybe go the route Hornby took with the lighting in their mk2e coaches and have some fitted lighting and some without.

It would be a shame to have to reconsider quantities due to a large price increase.

Just my thoughts

 

Paul.

[adb968008]

The last few posts are an even split..

 

No wonder Oxford are taking their time.

 

I don't doubt though, that after this first batch, there will probably be a large jump in price for the next batch.. lights or no-lights.

[wombatofludham]

I'd like lit, especially the Mk3 RFM as it will be useful to go into a Bachmann Mk2f rake.  Actually I'd quite like DCC sound as well, the Mk3 had fairly noisy external air-conditioning noise and the characteristic asthmatic farting of the air suspension.  If the Mk3s have pick-ups for lighting then it would help installing a sound chip!

[ThaneofFife]

i think some sound chips for the HST power cars had the mk3 air suspension wheezing noise as a function.   Ideal if that was added to a sound chip for an 86 or 87 loco.

 

that said it can get tiresome.......

[MGR Hooper!]

It might sound rude, but I don't see why Oxford are taking so long over the decision of lighting. If we look closely what do we see?

- People who want interior lighting
- People who don't want interior lighting

 

The solution is so simple, it's been mentioned before and they have to simply look at Dapol for their answer. All they have to do is design a coach and make sure it's light-bar ready. Those who wish to have lighting and are happy to spend a little more can buy light-bars.

[Legend]

Absolutely agree MGR Hooper

 

DCC asthmatic farting from an RFM suspension , exactly the sort of DCC excesses I referred to earlier!

[Roddy Angus]

_{I agree, who needs a sound chip for that!#}

 

_Roddy  

[MGR Hooper!]

Absolutely agree MGR Hooper

 

DCC asthmatic farting from an RFM suspension , exactly the sort of DCC excesses I referred to earlier!

 

 

 

Manufacturers will earn more if they are smart in their design, if they have a base product to which they can have addons like a lightbar or DCC farts (excuse me) then let those be addons.

 

A basic coach and/or a basic coach with a simple form of lightbars will satisfy the major part of the modelling community. And also keep prices in check.

Edited September 15, 2017 by MGR Hooper!

[wombatofludham]

When you consider what continental modellers can get with DCC (opening doors, lighting, sounds, raising pantographs) and what we get it's about time we started to catch up.  The Mk3 is one of the few coaches that actually has a distinctive sound and would benefit from it.  Frankly I'm looking forward to the Bachmann Mk2fs as they are going to be pushing the boundary a bit further and I think that Oxford would be better served looking at what they are doing and trying to match them in spec rather than trying to match Hornby on price.

​Hornby's Mk2e was designed and built down to a price and look what we got - a Mk2 with a Mk1 solebar.  If Oxford are to produce the "definitive" Mk3 (whatever that is) and clearly want to model every detail variation then they have to consider what DCC technology can deliver.  Otherwise the models won't be any further on from Hornby's indeterminate lumps apart from a few added details.

 

In any case I can't see Oxford holding to the price they have trailed these coaches at.  Their Dean Goods has ended up selling for more than they said it would so those of you thinking you will get these coaches for second hand Lima prices might have a bit of a disappointment coming.

[Legend]

No problem with the ability to upgrade being built into coach, lighting,DCC chips, opening doors. But let's have the basic version without the bells and whistles that we don't need to pay for.

[GordonC]

When you consider what continental modellers can get with DCC (opening doors, lighting, sounds, raising pantographs) and what we get it's about time we started to catch up.  The Mk3 is one of the few coaches that actually has a distinctive sound and would benefit from it.  Frankly I'm looking forward to the Bachmann Mk2fs as they are going to be pushing the boundary a bit further and I think that Oxford would be better served looking at what they are doing and trying to match them in spec rather than trying to match Hornby on price.

 

​Hornby's Mk2e was designed and built down to a price and look what we got - a Mk2 with a Mk1 solebar.  If Oxford are to produce the "definitive" Mk3 (whatever that is) and clearly want to model every detail variation then they have to consider what DCC technology can deliver.  Otherwise the models won't be any further on from Hornby's indeterminate lumps apart from a few added details.

 

In any case I can't see Oxford holding to the price they have trailed these coaches at.  Their Dean Goods has ended up selling for more than they said it would so those of you thinking you will get these coaches for second hand Lima prices might have a bit of a disappointment coming.

 

Did they make the same wheezing/creaking sound at faster speeds too?

 

I really only remember that on the move at slow speed for station stops - probably generally with AC electrics as I'd have been listening more to the HST power cars screaming out rather than the coach sounds!

[adb968008]

Did they make the same wheezing/creaking sound at faster speeds too?

 

I really only remember that on the move at slow speed for station stops - probably generally with AC electrics as I'd have been listening more to the HST power cars screaming out rather than the coach sounds!

Mk3,s have that distinctive sound of air escaping a balloon, not sure what it is but you often hear it in multiples when standing in the station.

[adb968008]

I still don't see why companies can't manufacturer coaches with the frame in the tooling, rather than the roof.

 

From an assembly perspective it's no difference, in fact it might be easier to fit a weight by dropping it in, covering with the interior and snapping together, than putting the interior in, adding the weight to the frame and trying to line it all up without it falling apart.

 

It may even be cheaper when different diagrams of coach have similar sides but a different roof.

 

But a removable roof could allow easier fitting of passengers, lighting and appeals to kids no end as they can "play" with some realism.

Edited September 15, 2017 by adb968008

[Gerald Henriksen]

My suspicion , and it's only that , is that the delay is probably more due to pricing . These are very attractively priced at £29.95 . This has been going on so long now that I've forgotten when announced but I think it was before the Brexit referendum, when the value of the £ dropped. I'm wondering if they are trying to figure out ways they can deliver this model within the existing price and whether they need to reposition it in the market.

 

 

While the initial announcement was pre-Brexit, the second run announcement was only January this year so they had an opportunity to revisit pricing at that point.

[Gerald Henriksen]

But a removable roof could allow easier fitting of passengers, lighting and appeals to kids no end as they can "play" with some realism.

 

It is difficult to hide the joint at the top of a coach, where things are very noticeable to the eyes.

[ThaneofFife]

a coach "well type" design like the old Lima Mk3 with glazing that locked into the coach bodysides was a tricky beast if you wanted to open the coach up and add passengers or paint the insides and the walls but i think these OR coaches have pre-painted interiors so thats not really an issue.  still I hope access is easy to add figures and if wanted lighting.  its horrible to try opening a coach up and breaking some fragile part of the model.

[adb968008]

It is difficult to hide the joint at the top of a coach, where things are very noticeable to the eyes.

Back in the 1980's may be, locos today have all kinds of parts visible to the user but a joint invisible to the naked eye..

I just took apart a Bachmann std 4 2-6-4t... into about 4 distinct parts of the body, including separating frames, tanks, cab roof and boiler, when assembled it was impossible to know it was comprised of so many bits... indeed I did have to wonder why as it's not got anything in common with other classes or variations within the fleet, The 3MT is another loco made of many bits.

 

It's definitely possible, some DCC locos have switches hidden under body panels, especially in Europe.

Edited September 15, 2017 by adb968008

[Verulam Central]

I  would prefer the lights were sold as an add on as my layout is mainly run in the day so lights in coaches seem a bit pointless and are simple there to raise the prices of the items. The hobby is danger of becoming more for the rich or on large wages.    

[BigAndy]

When you consider what continental modellers can get with DCC (opening doors, lighting, sounds, raising pantographs) and what we get it's about time we started to catch up.  The Mk3 is one of the few coaches that actually has a distinctive sound and would benefit from it.  Frankly I'm looking forward to the Bachmann Mk2fs as they are going to be pushing the boundary a bit further and I think that Oxford would be better served looking at what they are doing and trying to match them in spec rather than trying to match Hornby on price.

 

​Hornby's Mk2e was designed and built down to a price and look what we got - a Mk2 with a Mk1 solebar.  If Oxford are to produce the "definitive" Mk3 (whatever that is) and clearly want to model every detail variation then they have to consider what DCC technology can deliver.  Otherwise the models won't be any further on from Hornby's indeterminate lumps apart from a few added details.

 

In any case I can't see Oxford holding to the price they have trailed these coaches at.  Their Dean Goods has ended up selling for more than they said it would so those of you thinking you will get these coaches for second hand Lima prices might have a bit of a disappointment coming.

 

Totally agree with you on the point of European modellers being treated to vastly superior models than the British market. It's been like that since the year dot. Even back when I first started in the hobby in the mid 70's, the continental produced locos were vastly superior to anything on the British market, my Dad would quite often start modelling something in British OO then get completely fed up with the quality of what was commercially available and be swayed back into the HO market - he would even do that in 2mm as well.

 

The problem being is what Lima came up against in the 80's when they started to produce models for the 'Modern' scene. It still stands with the moulds today - they were pretty much dimensionally spot on, but the motors in them had to be built to a price, resulting in the 'pancake' being put inside all Lima diesels.

 

The problem? The fact that the British modeller wanted a top spec model but refused to pay the sheets for it..........the problem still stands today. You can read all sorts of posts bemoaning how much Bachmann or such and such are going to be charging for their next model and it sounds like these modellers are being asked to pay in vials of blood. One of the main reasons why production went over to China was so that the manufacturers could get away with paying low wages but managing to produce reasonably high spec ( or a lot higher spec than the British market was used to ) models.

 

Now that the average Chinese production worker has become skilled, higher wages are demanded plus the whole Brexit thing has dramatically pushed up the end price to us customers. If you want to continue to have the standard of models that we've been treated to in the last 20 years, you're going to have to suck it up buttercup and get with the programme. You cannot demand high spec models and want to pay low costs for them - Locos are now costing £150+, more if you want sound, that's the reality, no ammount of whining and whingeing is going to alter that - all it's going to do is drive the quality down again by refusing to pay what it costs. Have you had a look at how much someone like Fleischmann charges for one of their 2-10-0's? it's about 370 Euro's!!, but they're top quality.

 

By all means carry on complaining about the prices you're asked to pay now, but from my perspective, the gear that's rolling out of boxes and straight onto the track these days is better than in the history of British modelling. Just be glad you don't have to pay what a continental HO modeller has to fork out for!

 

cheers

 

Andy

[royaloak]

I was agreeing with you until this bit-

 plus the whole Brexit thing 

How much has the Pound actually dropped against the Chinese Yuan since or because of the Brexit vote?

 

Here is a grid for you-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=chinese+currency+to+gbp&oq=chinese+curre&aqs=chrome.2.0j69i57j0l4.6006j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited September 17, 2017 by royaloak

[BigAndy]

I was agreeing with you until this bit-

How much has the Pound actually dropped against the Chinese Yuan since or because of the Brexit vote?

 

Here is a grid for you-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=chinese+currency+to+gbp&oq=chinese+curre&aqs=chrome.2.0j69i57j0l4.6006j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Apologies royaloak, maybe I didn't make it as clear as I could. Whilst not taking sides either way, what I was trying to convey was more the uncertainty of the trading markets which may then have had an effect on import/export, and the resulting knee jerk reactions which a lot of businesses seemed to do after we all voted out.

 

Besides which, I'm not really clever enough to understand the whole trading profit/deficit thing.......

 

cheers

 

Andy

[royaloak]

The currencies have always fluctuated quite a bit, the Pound was at an all time high against the Yuan until the vote but has now returned to more normal levels, some will say it was always going to happen, others will say its because of Brexit while others will say its because of little blue men from Mars, all I will say is nobody really KNOWS what will happen post Brexit, some people THINK they know but they dont/cant because if they did we might have actually had some truth about it before we were allowed to vote on it, we will all have to wait and see what happens, somethings will be good and some things will be bad but as net immigration seems to be holding pretty much steady our European and non European refugees still seem to want to get over here rather than remain in Europe so it cant be all bad.

[Pete the Elaner]

I  would prefer the lights were sold as an add on as my layout is mainly run in the day so lights in coaches seem a bit pointless and are simple there to raise the prices of the items. The hobby is danger of becoming more for the rich or on large wages.    

Probably a bit late for a wishlist now.

If Oxford Rail are ready to have them built (which they have because the model is due out in 4-5 months), then this will already have been decided.