Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[mikeharvey22]

Surprised that Oxford have not been pulled up for failing to get that characteristic ripple in the lower bodyside which makes the finish look a bit like the "orange peel" effect that we all try to avoid when painting. Mk2s are even worse for this and yet the Bachmann ones have failed to capture it. ;-)

[njee20]

Do you not think the Bachmann coach given what we have seen so far is worth the extra £10 (setting aside its a mk2 and a mk3) and you've got the glaring error on every coach but pocketed a tenner on each one ? The price of everything and the value of nothing springs to mind here. Unless you are suggesting the Bachmann coach is about a tenner to expensive.......I'm not privy to your personal situation on price sensitivity but the point is these coaches are not correct.

I think you’re passing your opinion off as fact, clearly you find the window frames such a catastrophic error that you’re rubbishing the model. I’m trying to show that others won’t, the Bachmann coaches are 50% more expensive (they’re not here yet, let’s not deal in box shifter prices), and both are a total unknown, yet here you are with all the vitriol about how atrocious the OR coaches are. Sorry you feel like that, you have options - get over it, buy the (IMO wildly inferior) Joeuf/Lima/Hornby offerings, or fix it.

 

If I modelled OO I’d be snapping up rakes of the OR coaches and be pleased at the price (and that’s not about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing, which is just mildly offensive). YMMV.

[jjb1970]

These are like any other model, if you like them buy them, if you don't like them then buy something else. People will make their own decisions. My own disappointment is that these look like they'll probably good enough to dissuade anybody else doing a new Mk.3 model but not as good as they could be. 

[Shedmaster]

Hi All,

 

I can't say I know enough about Mk3's to say how good or bad the new one is, however, here is a Hornby Mk3 SLEP that was extensively modified by a member of this parish for my Stewarts Lane VSOE project.

 

I think there's plenty that can be done to one of these 'older' models to make it what you want, this one took a huge amount of work before even being painted but maybe for a 'new release' I'd expect the model to be as right as possible ?

 

 

 

 

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Shed.

[Hilux5972]

A Mk3 for the VSOE? I didn’t think there were any in that rake. Or is it for one of the other luxury trains that Belmond now own?

[Shedmaster]

A Mk3 for the VSOE? I didn’t think there were any in that rake. Or is it for one of the other luxury trains that Belmond now own?

 

Hi,

 

You're absolutely right, there isn't one in the VSOE set now This one, 'LEVIATHAN', used to live at Stew. Lane many years ago and was mostly unused and certainly unloved by the fitting staff ! My model of Stew Lane is based back when this SLEP was resident, before the 'GM' invasion, in a depot inhabited by 33's, 73's and 47's.

 

I do have a record for one outing, when I took the set into Vic with 73 129 in scabby NSE livery, to do a weekend away with 47 739 in even scabbier RES livery on 26/04/2002! The Mk3 was second from rear, the genny car being right at the back or nearest the stops at Vic before departure. The Mk3 was included in the set when a weekend away was involved and was used to accommodate the staff for the trip.

 

The VSOE fitters used to hate the thing due to it's complexities......circuit boards if I remember rightly ?

 

Thanks,

 

Shed.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Shedmaster

[black and decker boy]

Could the window frame issue be compounded by a slight recess on the inside to the glazing. The frames might not stand as proud as some think but the angle of the photo causing the angst and lighting could exaggerate both the externals projection and internal recess to the glazing.

 

It's not going to put me off a scotrail rake as NEM pockets with Kadee no20s are worth it vs Lima with body mounted kadee no5s, especially for push pull operation.

[Hilux5972]

Hi,

 

You're absolutely right, there isn't one in the VSOE set now This one, 'LEVIATHAN', used to live at Stew. Lane many years ago and was mostly unused and certainly unloved by the fitting staff ! My model of Stew Lane is based back when this SLEP was resident, before the 'GM' invasion, in a depot inhabited by 33's, 73's and 47's.

 

I do have a record for one outing, when I took the set into Vic with 73 129 in scabby NSE livery, to do a weekend away with 47 739 in even scabbier RES livery on 26/04/2002! The Mk3 was second from rear, the genny car being right at the back or nearest the stops at Vic before departure. The Mk3 was included in the set when a weekend away was involved and was used to accommodate the staff for the trip.

 

The VSOE fitters used to hate the thing due to it's complexities......circuit boards if I remember rightly ?

 

Thanks,

 

Shed.

Well something new is learnt all the time lol.

[PoshPaws]

Can't agree with you there - the frames stick out way to far - far beyond anything on the real model. Compare this post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/page-33&do=findComment&comment=2865381 with this photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/15199311001 (not mine and the closest match I could find for angle).

 

The Mk3 frames are nearly flush and pretty much flat. The OR frames stick out more than the bevel around the CDL light and are taller than the roof ribs - on the real thing they are less than both.

 

Roy

Actually, to my eyes that photo of the Virgin Mk3 isuggests that the OR window frames are not that big an issue. They look far from flush on the prototype, and while the OR representation might be a little bit thicker, it is most certainly not adding something that isn't there, which has been claimed in other posts.

 

I expect to buy two rakes, one to replace a Lima ScotRail set (and probably a Bachmann DBSO to replace the Airfix conversion that I did in 1989) and a set of blue / grey IC125 trailers. These photos certainly haven't dented those plans, I think OR look like they have really caught the character of the Mk3s at a great price. I do still expect to have to do some modelling though, unless OR release a TRUK and a TRSB when they get to the HST trailers.

[wombatofludham]

I think rather than jump to conclusions based on a photo taken in close-up I'm going to wait until they are released to pass judgement. 

And still buy them.
 

[Andy Mac]

I think rather than jump to conclusions based on a photo taken in close-up I'm going to wait until they are released to pass judgement. 

And still buy them.

 

Mark,

 

Don't think we'll have long to wait... got an email update from Hattons saying delivery between Oct and Dec for the blue gray/intercity/Scotrail liveries....

So won't be long till folks closely examine the window frames with magnifying glasses....

 

Me, I'm looking forward to some decent quality mk3's at a very reasonable price....

[BigAndy]

Mark,

 

Don't think we'll have long to wait... got an email update from Hattons saying delivery between Oct and Dec for the blue gray/intercity/Scotrail liveries....

So won't be long till folks closely examine the window frames with magnifying glasses....

 

Me, I'm looking forward to some decent quality mk3's at a very reasonable price....

 

Oct to Dec for the ScotRail version as well? Thought that was going to be in the second phase..............?

 

cheers

 

Andy

[Andy Mac]

Oct to Dec for the ScotRail version as well? Thought that was going to be in the second phase..............?

 

cheers

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

 

Yeah, I was hoping for a gap between the releases to give the credit card a chance to be cleared, but looks like they are all coming about the same time....

 

I'm assuming that things are running so far behind schedule the individual phase deliveries will all end up being one big production run...

[James90012]

Would seem strange though without seeing any Virgin liveried preproduction samples?

[Roy Langridge]

First the caveat, I have already said I wait to see what they look like i the flesh.

 

Now the point, I stood next to a Mk 3 at Paddington last night. The window frame to bodyside depth is no more than the boiler bands on many steam locos. If we saw an EP of a steam loco with bands that deep, people would not be suggesting that they be sanded down. Why, therefore, is the suggestion acceptable for rolling stock?

 

Roy

[royaloak]

Note on this picture posted earlier-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railpics-online/34750821291/in/photolist-UWP3te-qC3r2i-8KCWTp-nhiGj1-bkcqVN-RQARBE-SzKwVu-AYQ6gS-bWbFkp-JHPS7c-q4PVtG-S1of9U-VPdCqb-U7Ak66-srqh3s-e19zVA-qkkewu-SPeQsV-rpzszS-8PBcUf-9ZxCad-bHoM2R-8d1k4D-RUJZnP-qg7miv-daRpvb-9LQaBZ-RMXaEb-9nn9fQ-dqdBR8-qE95S1-rdQgMN-pxSjUv-8cQKfS-9sUMnh-3duVKF-pwkBzN-Re3oGQ-qYBnQ6-ciNscu-qgiJdZ-avr3Hc-o6gkWH-qHSJJB-oq3utB-nMuBUN-rggEiz-h1UrSJ-Sn2FYV-hzGva2

 

That the silver is only on the inner part of the beading and not all of it as modeled.

[Bon Accord]

First the caveat, I have already said I wait to see what they look like i the flesh.

 

Now the point, I stood next to a Mk 3 at Paddington last night. The window frame to bodyside depth is no more than the boiler bands on many steam locos. If we saw an EP of a steam loco with bands that deep, people would not be suggesting that they be sanded down. Why, therefore, is the suggestion acceptable for rolling stock?

 

Roy

 

The point should perhaps be made that the boiler bands and indeed handrails on pretty much every RTR steam loco are hideously overscale and yet nobody gets too worked up about it.

[justin1985]

From the perspective of an N gauge modeller, I'd say that the images of the window frames on the Oxford coach on this thread seem to suggest it is just as prominent as the one on the Dapol N gauge Mk3. To my eye, that is over-pronounced, but it didn't seem to attract much comment when they were first launched, or indeed it doesn't seem to be discussed as much of a problem to this day. As someone who travels on Mk3a's three or four times a week, I'd definitely say there is too much relief on pretty much every model I've seen in any scale, but it definitely needs SOME relief. 

 

However, with my own Dapol Mk3s, I found that spraying the glazing, from the inside, with Tamiya "smoke" translucent paint not only added the tinting that Dapol failed to include, but made the window frames seem much less prominent overall. Running a black paint pen around the outside of the raised windows on the clear moulding improved the appearance even more. I went from thinking that the entirely printed side (i.e. entirely flush) old Farish models were better, to now being a little undecided. 

 

Looking at the close up of the Intercity coach, its the glazing that strikes me as pretty shabby - you can see the sides of the moulding almost looking like a second, translucent, frame. Perhaps laser cut glazing would make more of a difference than sanding back the frames?

 

Its the old question of boiler bands and relief isn't it? To true scale, boiler bands could often simply be represented by the thickness of a decal (at least in N), BUT the eye wants to see some relief. I wonder if the outsourced Chinese CAD\CAM procedures used by manufacturers impose minimum thicknesses for design elements like this? 

 

Justin

[Roy Langridge]

I didn’t mean to open a can of worms on boiler bands, simply highlight that those on recent OO models, such Hornby’s Wainwright, show how subtle mouldings can now be. Yes they may still be overscale, but they appear far less prominent than the window frames in the Oxford Mk3.

 

However, and I keep saying this, I raised the issue of the frames having seen photos of an EP, and the reality may be much improved.

 

Roy

[stovepipe]

There's been mention of the inner silver frames on Inter City and Scotrail liveries, but they were this way on Blue & Grey liveries too.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/16120141353/sizes/k/

[Bob Reid]

As you say Stovepipe they were like that from new (except for the prototype MkIII's that were visibly "frameless") just that it was less obvious on a rail grey background and in subsequent works visits I seem to remember some getting painted over.  Only one small section of the frame (and the horizontal bar splitting the toilet light) was specified to be left in a polished plain anodised aluminium.  The problem though is that the thickness of that section of the frame against the bodyside was in real life barely 4mm thick (plus a hair's thickness for sealer onto the panel).  In 4mm scale best served by a transfer!  I'm certainly not getting over excited about how they've represented them - half the problem to me (as has been mentioned before) is that on the pre-production sample, the edge of the glazing inside the body moulding is too visible and appears to make the whole thing look a bit on the heavy / overscale side.   

​At least in the blue & grey livery I'd much prefer if they'd had painted (or at least coloured) the lower half section of the small split bodylights (behind the toilets / luggage racks) in rail blue, and for the benefit of us old gits, that they had modelled the original foam insert gangways (though they lasted barely five years in service) as attempted by Jouef and the like and that the paint or colour of the bogies and modules is chocolate - Nothing there though that couldn't be easily sorted once we have the beastie's!

​Yes there are some "issues" but what's not to love - 4 TSO's and an FO for me...

 

(Edit) Sorry, meant to add this....

(Edit2) for spelling..

Edited October 11, 2017 by Bob-65b

[sjgardiner]

I have a question that doesn't appear to have been answered in the ongoing debate about the window frames.  Has OxfordRail said anything about what the price is actually going to be?  I still see what I assume is a placeholder price of £29 on Hatton's website.  Given that I want a couple of these for my ScotRail push-pull set, which is a "display case central" project re-creating an image of my from my childhood, not a serious part of any layout, it would be nice to know what to budget for them.  Maybe all will be revealed at Warley at the end of November.  Maybe i'm just to used now to Rapido's oversharing that I find radio silence from a manufacturer to be a bit annoying.

 

Again, whats with wanting me to look at the camera. by Stephen Gardiner, on Flickr

 

I'm not planning on a full length rake, ideally two TSO's, a CO and the Bachmann DBSO behind my re-nammed Class 47 St Mungo.  I want to be able to pull them out and run a rake on a friends freelance layout from time to time.  My biggest concern is that the paint colour is a reasonable close proximity for Bachmann's Class 47's (and their DBSO's which one would think would be paint matched to their own locos)

 

Cheers,

 

Stephen

 

PS - The window frames in my grainy 1988 picture look silver (ducks and covers)

[adb968008]

Oxford rail’s website lists an RRP of £34.95

 

http://www.oxfordrail.com/ORalljan17.pdf

 

Due for release Q4.

It does say in the catalog that the next price list is due in October.

For that reason, I got my pre-order in, as lights or no lights, I don’t think we will see this price again.

 

If it turns out to be a dud, or if the price isn’t honoured, you can always cancel, but from what I’ve seen, it looks pretty good, and the price/quality ratio is very good.

Edited October 11, 2017 by adb968008

[Chrisjh]

Excellent news thanks for the post.

 

Do we know if the MK3's will have lights fitted?

 

Best,

Chris

[YesTor]

 

 

Do we know if the MK3's will have lights fitted?

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

I don't think it has been officially confirmed either way, but with these models retailing at under thirty quid each an educated guess tells me 'no lights'...