PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

[Mike Riley]

Thankfully prices still the same, I think getting mixed up between the cost of 250 & 500 packet sizes

 

After my last post I compared the current price on their web site with my invoice from 2008.  They have nearly doubled in price since then.  Sadly, my other investments have not increased similarly.

[J060794]

Hi,

 

I really like the look of this track, Is it realistic to use this on a 90's era layout in little-used sidings alongside concrete sleepered track? or is it likely this track would have been removed/relayed long before?

​Thanks,
J.

[martin_wynne]

I really like the look of this track, Is it realistic to use this on a 90's era layout in little-used sidings alongside concrete sleepered track?

 

Hi J,

 

Yes, sure. There is still plenty of bullhead in yards, sidings, and branch/secondary lines.

 

In some places bullhead is still being laid new. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59973-brand-new-bullhead-points/

 

Martin.

Edited December 20, 2016 by martin_wynne

[gordon s]

After my last post I compared the current price on their web site with my invoice from 2008.  They have nearly doubled in price since then.  Sadly, my other investments have not increased similarly.

 

 

You should worry, the cost of a pack of copper clad strip has gone up from around £5 to £15.95 over a similar period.  

 

It's enough to make me buy Peco.......

Edited December 20, 2016 by gordon s

['CHARD]

Reminds me of an experience my Father had many years ago. He went into a hardware shop and asked for a 'ball and pein' hammer; the young assistant replied that they only sold Spear & Jackson.

 

Just after I started on the railway, during the Cook's Tour of the various works' departments, I was the proud creator of various welded and soldered items, and a lathe-turned plumb-bob.

All of these had to be accounted for with a chitty before you could take them off the premises; not to do so was theft and therefore a disciplinary offence.  

 

The slip made out by the stores clerk for the last named item read:  'PLUMP BOB.'

[Junctionmad]

You should worry, the cost of a pack of copper clad strip has gone up from around £5 to £15.95 over a similar period.  

 

It's enough to make me buy Peco.......

Steady on , no need for that

[gr.king]

This is all very interesting compared to where we were a year ago, including pages 1 to 7 of initially promising but rapidly deteriorating debate on:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106133-165mm-traditional-oo-gauge-classic-steam-era-pointwork/page-1

 

It is so nice to think that the doom mongers and apparent opponents of any departure from the old Peco standard have not won the day. With a little luck, by this time next year those who simply want their track to look at least "in proper proportion" and with adequate "typical" details, without having to take time to build it all, will be able to buy a helpful small range of points to go with any OO flexible track of their choice, probably without being compelled to adopt an even narrower gauge. Reasonable-looking track on a large layout will no longer be reserved for those who make track research and construction their full-time occupation. Not before time, the track beneath many more models of locos and rolling stock may actually do some justice to them.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... Not before time, the track beneath many more models of locos and rolling stock may actually do some justice to them.

 We will know the revolution has come if Hornby can be persuaded to take at least one display photo of any new stock introductions on a carefully ballasted length of a 'better OO track', instead of exclusively using their own lamentable stuff with its 1950s origins on show.

[hayfield]

Yes.  Didn't I read that C&L have recently put up the price of chairs?  I still have quite a few 2-bolt chairs left over from making the turnouts on my current layout.  A good investment?

 

 

 

Mike I think my reply about recent price rises was correct, previous price rise was 18 to 24 mths ago

After my last post I compared the current price on their web site with my invoice from 2008.  They have nearly doubled in price since then.  Sadly, my other investments have not increased similarly.

 

 

Sadly many items have shot up, copperclad strip has gone up by even more, but comparing a price of 2008 as recent is pushing it a bit

 

The little I have read about C&L and Exactoscale on these pages and press releases by C&L is that in 2008 the company either just or was about to change hands, the business needed to be overhauled price wise and both the costs of manufacturing and retailing have shot up.  The prices that can be charged when working from home is totally different to having business premises, extra staffing, changes to employment law and additional employment costs have all combined to increase costs greatly

 

Being a small business working from home has a low overhead cost structure, moving the business to the next step increases the overheads greatly, unless there is massive expansion where economies of scale kick in. Add to that a period of wage deflation/stagnation, but massive rises to raw materials and increasing oil prices equates to commodities rising at a much greater rate

 

A lot of consumables have had their prices kept artificially low owing to manufacturing in low wage areas, positive currency exchange rates. Raw material prices used by C&L have rocketed over this period, fuelled mainly by China's desire to dominate manufacturing and economic growth.

 

Plastic in the 60's was seen as a very cheap material, then came the oil price explosion !!

Edited December 21, 2016 by hayfield

[coachmann]

A lot of individual items shot up in price during the period of China's expansion buying up brass, copper etc. Then our own lilly-livered Government threw in it's own wrench by rubber-stamping every so-called "initiative" the EU could throw at us. At least common-sense prevailed over solder, but (quasi) cellulose paint, etching on brass and nickel silver, and modellers size BA nuts and bolts has been expensive these past years. As for small drills traditionally used in modelling, a truly sharp one is a revelation these days!

Edited December 21, 2016 by coachmann

[bertiedog]

A lot of the Cninese number drills and metric types under a mm are not ground correctly at all, they have a poor centre as well, only able to drill wood. In brass they drill oversize, due to off set grinding, and some have a virtually flat end!

Individually packed tubed ones are all right, it is the Micro packed ones from Hong Kong that are very poor indeed.

 

Stephen

[hayfield]

Mike I think my reply about recent price rises was correct, previous price rise was 18 to 24 mths ago

 

 

Sadly many items have shot up, copperclad strip has gone up by even more, but comparing a price of 2008 as recent is pushing it a bit

 

The little I have read about C&L and Exactoscale on these pages and press releases by C&L is that in 2008 the company either just or was about to change hands, the business needed to be overhauled price wise and both the costs of manufacturing and retailing have shot up.  The prices that can be charged when working from home is totally different to having business premises, extra staffing, changes to employment law and additional employment costs have all combined to increase costs greatly

 

Being a small business working from home has a low overhead cost structure, moving the business to the next step increases the overheads greatly, unless there is massive expansion where economies of scale kick in. Add to that a period of wage deflation/stagnation, but massive rises to raw materials and increasing oil prices equates to commodities rising at a much greater rate

 

A lot of consumables have had their prices kept artificially low owing to manufacturing in low wage areas, positive currency exchange rates. Raw material prices used by C&L have rocketed over this period, fuelled mainly by China's desire to dominate manufacturing and economic growth.

 

Plastic in the 60's was seen as a very cheap material, then came the oil price explosion !!

 

 

If I can add something else about costs and this covers most businesses in our hobby, given the number of ranges which have disappeared over the years the hobby cannot afford to loose to many more

 

To stay in business the proprietors need to make a profit, I don't see many Rolls Royce's being driven by the proprietors at shows, in contrast many have older vehicles. Quite a lot of the trade are very small scale and some have day time professions/jobs, just work from home on low budgets.

 

None of us like paying too much, but neither should we expect others to subsidise our modelling activities. I do accept that for most of us, wages have stagnated in recent times and we may have to be more careful with our spending, but there is a limit to where it must be profitable for the businesses to exist

 

With the thread in mind/going back on topic the main supplier is now entering an area, which until recently was only covered by 2 smaller suppliers, now we have 4. This must be good for the 00 gauge modeller, I think it will also benefit the smaller suppliers, as more modellers will begin to realise trackwork is as important as rolling stock and scenic features and invest in upgrading. The big boys will hoover up the lions share of the market, but hopefully there will be an over spill into the nice markets that will benefit all.

 

Not too long ago we saw the demise of those who were providing rolling stock, now however there are more companies than ever supplying their own items, with the advent of 3D printing hopefully we may see further entrants into the trackwork arena, which in turn will keep the big producers on their toes. 

 

The days of cheap locos is long past, perhaps trackwork will follow suite in both increased costs and ranges available. Or will one brand dominate and suffocate choice, time will tell

[Andy Y]

With the thread in mind/going back on topic the main supplier is now entering an area, which until recently was only covered by 2 smaller suppliers, now we have 4. This must be good for the 00 gauge modeller, I think it will also benefit the smaller suppliers, as more modellers will begin to realise trackwork is as important as rolling stock and scenic features and invest in upgrading. The big boys will hoover up the lions share of the market, but hopefully there will be an over spill into the nice markets that will benefit all.

I think you are right; if modellers have their eyes open they will start to see more layouts with better-looking track and may be inclined to follow suit with their next layouts so it'll be a slow snowball but the early days may see more people feeling that they want better points to go with the better plain track and rather than wait several years for a full set of supporting poitnwork to appear they will look at the alternatives available to them.

[Brinkly]

I think you are right; if modellers have their eyes open they will start to see more layouts with better-looking track and may be inclined to follow suit with their next layouts so it'll be a slow snowball but the early days may see more people feeling that they want better points to go with the better plain track and rather than wait several years for a full set of supporting poitnwork to appear they will look at the alternatives available to them.

I couldn't agree more Andy.

 

I joined the Scalefour Society due to seeing excellent 4mm modelling, that was 8-9 years ago now. With recent developments in 00 (SF track standards, better plain track and even more beautiful RTR modes) modelling in P4 doesn't hold as much appeal as it did 8 years ago.

 

Originally I planned a SR layout (before opting to build Horrabridge) and working to P4 standards made sense; the majority of the locos needed to be kit build, now everything I require (and have subsequently purchased) T9, O2, Well Tanks, Maunsell stock and so on are all produced in RTR form. The thought of converting everything seemed very daunting - the main reason for converting back to 00 again.

 

Modelling time is limited currently, so if I can achieve a decent looking layout, with RTR stock and track, then excellent! I might actually get something finished!

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[Pacific231G]

Hi J,

 

Yes, sure. There is still plenty of bullhead in yards, sidings, and branch/secondary lines.

 

In some places bullhead is still being laid new. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59973-brand-new-bullhead-points/

 

Martin.

Hi Martin

I noticed while travelling on it today that the northern arm of the Greenford Branch triangular junction at West Ealing still has BH pointwork (two turnouts and a diamond) with some BH on the two arms towards the GW main line.  The rest of the branch is FB with a lot of it between Drayton Green and the northern triangle fairly recently relaid on steel sleepers. I'll take a closer look next time I travel on the branch (if I ever do see below) .

Slightly OT but, while waiting for my train this morning, I was struck by the strange logic of TOCs.

 

 

I'm sure you can spot the obvious inconsistency

Edited December 22, 2016 by Pacific231G

[AndyID]

Have Peco said they will sell the rail? I hope they do. Some enterprising individuals might offer 3D printed switch and crossing timbers that can utilize the rail and are designed to be compatible with Peco BH track.

 

Peco might view that as enabling competitors but it would also accelerate the adoption of Peco BH track and take some of the heat off them to release a range of turnouts in short order.

[martin_wynne]

Have Peco said they will sell the rail

 

Hi Andy,

 

They sell all their other rail sections, so there is no reason to believe they won't sell the code 75 bullhead when they have got fully under way and updated their web site. See:

 

 http://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3328&CAT_ID=3329&numRecordPosition=1

 

Their web site is awful to navigate, but Google finds most things.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Pint of Adnams]

Hi Andy,

 

They sell all their other rail sections, so there is no reason to believe they won't sell the code 75 bullhead when they have got fully under way and updated their web site. See:

 

 http://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3328&CAT_ID=3329&numRecordPosition=1

 

Their web site is awful to navigate, but Google finds most things.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

I understand directly from Peco that 'a new website is currently under development that should improve the current offering and address the evident shortfalls of the current site. It should launch early in the new year'.

 

Maybe that's why there is no mention of the new track in the 'News' section or elsewhere???

[Joseph_Pestell]

I'm not sure if it is still the case (I did not think to look when I was there recently) but all the track on Camden Bank was bullhead in quite recent times.

[Junctionmad]

A lot of individual items shot up in price during the period of China's expansion buying up brass, copper etc. Then our own lilly-livered Government threw in it's own wrench by rubber-stamping every so-called "initiative" the EU could throw at us. At least common-sense prevailed over solder, but (quasi) cellulose paint, etching on brass and nickel silver, and modellers size BA nuts and bolts has been expensive these past years. As for small drills traditionally used in modelling, a truly sharp one is a revelation these days!

Most of these initiatives in the EU were as a result of uk pressure , one of the things that I'm looking forward twithout the uk ,is the saner legislation from the Eu with no U.K. input. Nearly 60 % of all Eu directives owed their origin to uk pressure. The country contained the most effective eu lobbying machine of all. ( and a very dedicated Brussels civil service

 

Then of course every Ei directive was gold plated and extended by the uk government hidden under the " excuse" that the EU told us.

 

To suggest that cellulose , lead in solder and BA nuts are somehow a function of " Eur'up" is of course without foundation. Just like boris Johnstons " straight bannas " lie.

 

Copperclad is expensive because of the significant rise in all metals. Nothing to do with the EU.

 

bA bolts are expensive because it's a specialist product , requiring particular machinery , a skilled operator and a tiny market

Edited December 22, 2016 by Junctionmad

[coachmann]

Most of these initiatives in the EU were as a result of uk pressure , one of the things that I'm looking forward to put the uk ,ms the saner legislation from the Eu with the U.K. Lack of input. Nearly 60 % of all Eu directives owed their origin to uk pressure. The country cntsinec the most eu lobbying machine of all.

 

Then of course every Ei directive was gold plated and extended by the uk government hidden under the " excuse" that the EU told us.

 

To suggest that cellulose , lead in solder and BA nuts are somehow a function of " Eur'up" is of course without foundation. Just like boris Johnstons " straight bannas " lie.

 

Copperclad is expensive because of the significant rise in all metals. Nothing to do with the EU.

 

bA bolts are expensive because it's a specialist product , requiring particular machinery , a skilled operator and a tiny market

And your qualifications are.......?  Learn to read before you write!

Edited December 22, 2016 by coachmann

[Colin_McLeod]

Can Peco please issue the fishplates soon so that this thread can get back on topic lol

[Gary H]

I see that Hattons now have this BH track in stock.

Has anyone bought any?

It would be nice and alot quicker (and cheaper) if I can dispense with thoughts of going E.M or P4 ​IF​​ I build a new layout.

[hayfield]

Can Peco please issue the fishplates soon so that this thread can get back on topic lol

 

 

Buy some lovely Exactoscale metal ones, may be a bit dearer but so much better looking without the bottom joiner attached

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_347_349 

 

Or the DCC ones may be available, just cut the extra bolts off

[Colin_McLeod]

What size nut and bolts do I need for the Exactoscale fishplates?