Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

DH

 

Maybe I’m misplacing blame, but something is going wrong somewhere.

 

I’ve multiple times bought books on potentially very interesting topics, where the blurb talks about the author having studied the topic while acquiring a PhD and having decided that they have to ‘share it with the world’, only to be disappointed by what a dog’s breakfast has been made of hugely interesting material.

 

I used to take the ‘arising from a PhD’ blurb as a recommendation, passionate author, unusual subject from a new perspective etc. Now I take it as a flashing warning sign.

 

K

Edited December 27, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Regularity]

A PhD is awarded for original research in a field, with requirements for breadth and depth of the work to make it considered as having advanced human knowledge to a certain degree (pun unintended!) It should indicate that the submitter knows what they are writing about, sure, but it is not a requirement that they be able to present this knowledge to a lay audience in an understandable manner.

 

Doctoral theses are primarily academic documents designed to establish the ability of the author to produce new ideas that are sufficiently rigorous and substantiable to be accepted for publication and dissemination to the relevant academic field: an ability to collect information and combine it with, or react to, established understanding and present new ideas. This is useful for creating credentials for undertaking further research, but largely that’s all it does.

 

I have an ongoing joke with a friend who obtained his PhD in psychology, principally in the behaviour of human drivers or cars at roundabouts. I say to him that his thesis could be summarised in one word: Badly, to which he responds that he spent 3 years collecting the evidence to prove it, and where s my systematised collection of data (facts) and subsequent analysis?

The point is,we all “know” that most drivers (i.e. everyone but ourselves) gets in the wrong lane, cuts people up and fails to use their indicators at roundabouts, but no one had actually proved it until the late 80s.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Regularity

[Nearholmer]

Regularity

 

Perfectly understandable that there are subjects that are so abstruse that it takes a very, very exceptional person to be able to communicate them to a lay person, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

 

What I am talking about are books covering fairly easy-to-grasp stuff, which are then marketed as popular science or popular history, and which are appallingly written and/or edited.

 

The one on the history/impact of electric vehicles is made worse because it is anything but evident that the author understands the technicalities of the subject, so flails about all over the place trying to pin down which innovations were and were not significant.

 

K

[Regularity]

But as I said, Kevin, having a PhD in a subject is no indication of an ability to communicate to a non-specialist audience. Or even to a specialist audience. In fact a PhD can be viewed as a very narrow analysis taken to great depth. No indication in itself of broader knowledge about the general subject matter. In fact, the award is simply a recognition of the ability to conduct exhaustive (and exhausting!) research.

 

What us most impressive about a PhD is usually the knowledge required to get on the programme in the first place.

 

Great and or specalised knowledge is no indication of ability to communicate, whether the subject matter is abstruse or not. Knowledgable communicators are few and rare between. I thought my list supported your view on that, but you seem to think it didn’t?

 

We are at the difference between “mind” and “brain”, I think. It is possible to have a great brain, which stores and retrieves data (remembers) effectively, and is capable of analysing, interpolating and extrapolating the information to develop startling new ideas, but that is largely a biological process where we understand the basics (how cells work) and the broad brushstrokes (which parts of the brain generally deal with various things). The mind, though, that us another thing. The way a personality develops, the way it infuses knowledge and communication, that can be so much more than the brain - and in the noblest examples (such as David Attenborough, Professor Cox, Harold Pinter, etc) we see brain and mind working together to create something altogether greater than the sum of the parts. PhDs are primarily about the brain. Good communication is more about the mind, IMO.

[ianLMS]

The point is,we all “know” that most drivers (i.e. everyone but ourselves) gets in the wrong lane, cuts people up and fails to use their indicators at roundabouts, but no one had actually proved it until the late 80s.

 

And to prove the theory without spending 3 years of researching the subject is to watch a 1 minute clip on You-Tube!!! And it is entirely relevant as this was in Nofolk, not too many miles from the area James has chose to model!!!!

 

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all!

 

Ian

Edited December 27, 2018 by ianLMS

[Martin S-C]

having a PhD in a subject is no indication of an ability to communicate to a non-specialist audience.

Which I think is Kevin's point. If these authors make such a dog's breakfast of their books, then their editors should have stopped them and insisted on edits.

[Alex TM]

Which I think is Kevin's point. If these authors make such a dog's breakfast of their books, then their editors should have stopped them and insisted on edits.

Hi again,

 

One of my lecturers once stated that the most readable book that was attributed to him was the one that had the best editor.  He is a great man but I would never recommend his books (except, possibly, as a cure for insomnia).  Thankfully, not all academics are poor writers.

 

As for the mind/brain comments, I feel a headache coming on ......

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Caley Jim]

 I may have to fit a freelance small coal/water/tool wagon behind it and put the digital gubbins in that.

You mean something like this?

 

Jim

[phil_sutters]

You mean something like this?

1265 & tender.jpg

 

Jim

If you prefer the NBR version - also from Neilson - you could have this one - still around in 1952 - seventy years after the first was delivered to the NBR. It very conveniently shows the other side, with the tender's brake lever. Most were coupled to the engine with a standard three link coupling. With the handrails and footboards they also served as shunters' trucks. (It was good to see the sharper image - the iron work is particularly interesting)

Edited December 28, 2018 by phil_sutters

[Regularity]

Which I think is Kevin's point. If these authors make such a dog's breakfast of their books, then their editors should have stopped them and insisted on edits.

Or possibly have told them that they aren’t going to be the next Brian Cox or Hannah Fry (other scientists are available), and might be better sticking to academic works rather than “popular science”...?

[Andy Hayter]

Which I think is Kevin's point. If these authors make such a dog's breakfast of their books, then their editors should have stopped them and insisted on edits.

 

The problem with that is that as subjects become more and more esoteric, even a "technical" editor (supposedly knowledgeable in the general subject) may have little or no real idea about the content.

[RedGemAlchemist]

And to prove the theory without spending 3 years of researching the subject is to watch a 1 minute clip on You-Tube!!! And it is entirely relevant as this was in Nofolk, not too many miles from the area James has chose to model!!!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0byQa3pDlE

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all!

 

Ian

And less than five minutes from where I live as the crow flies. I actually remember this happening and saw the damage it did to the roundabout. It's stuff like this that makes me almost glad I'm unable to drive. Edited December 27, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Martin S-C]

The problem with that is that as subjects become more and more esoteric, even a "technical" editor (supposedly knowledgeable in the general subject) may have little or no real idea about the content.

This is why you have technical editors these days. If you are in the business of publishing works about canal inclined planes you don't employ an editor of children's books

Edited December 27, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

You mean something like this?

1265 & tender.jpg

 

Jim

Yes, very much like that!

 

[corneliuslundie]

Unfortunately many publishers, including some which specialise in railway topics, do not employ editors these days. The author's manuscript - actually a Word file or similar - goes straight to the typesetter and then to the printer, that is unless the page layouts are created by the author. The author him/herself may not be a competent proof reader. And the result is too many books with glaring errors, even on popular subjects.

When I started work in academic publishing we had a full time proof reader. I have never since worked anywhere where such a person was employed.

I know I cannot proof read my own material effectively. I get someone else to do it. My wife does an excellent job, partly because she knows only a little about the subjects and in addition to spotting spelling and grammatical errors she queries things if they are not clear.

In the HMRS there is a firm policy that both the newsletter and the journal have an external proof reader.

Jonathan

PS And I still can't type., either.

[St Enodoc]

Unfortunately many publishers, including some which specialise in railway topics, do not employ editors these days. The author's manuscript - actually a Word file or similar - goes straight to the typesetter and then to the printer, that is unless the page layouts are created by the author. The author him/herself may not be a competent proof reader. And the result is too many books with glaring errors, even on popular subjects.

When I started work in academic publishing we had a full time proof reader. I have never since worked anywhere where such a person was employed.

I know I cannot proof read my own material effectively. I get someone else to do it. My wife does an excellent job, partly because she knows only a little about the subjects and in addition to spotting spelling and grammatical errors she queries things if they are not clear.

In the HMRS there is a firm policy that both the newsletter and the journal have an external proof reader.

Jonathan

PS And I still can't type., either.

My Dad used to proof-read various amateur publications, such as the church magazine. His technique was to start at the end and read each line in ascending order, so that he was reading what was actually there rather than what he expected to be there.

[Annie]

Hi again,

 

One of my lecturers once stated that the most readable book that was attributed to him was the one that had the best editor.  He is a great man but I would never recommend his books (except, possibly, as a cure for insomnia).  Thankfully, not all academics are poor writers.

 

As for the mind/brain comments, I feel a headache coming on ......

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

My son works at the law school of a major university here in New Zealand, he has a law degree himself, but his main job is proof reading, fact and reference checking and reassembling law journal submissions and manuscripts for publication written by the law school professors into readable English that makes sense.  He is very good at it and sometimes I feel that the published material owes more to him than it does the professor who is supposedly the author of the finished work.

[Donw]

Unfortunately many publishers, including some which specialise in railway topics, do not employ editors these days. The author's manuscript - actually a Word file or similar - goes straight to the typesetter and then to the printer, that is unless the page layouts are created by the author. The author him/herself may not be a competent proof reader. And the result is too many books with glaring errors, even on popular subjects.

When I started work in academic publishing we had a full time proof reader. I have never since worked anywhere where such a person was employed.

I know I cannot proof read my own material effectively. I get someone else to do it. My wife does an excellent job, partly because she knows only a little about the subjects and in addition to spotting spelling and grammatical errors she queries things if they are not clear.

In the HMRS there is a firm policy that both the newsletter and the journal have an external proof reader.

Jonathan

PS And I still can't type., either.

 

I cannot proofread my own stuff either. When editing the Gazette I would go through articles checking the sense of the articles making changes and dealing with the layout inserting pictures etc but when it comes to the proofreading I read what I 'know' is there rather than what actually is there, so I never see my mistakes. The previous editor one Ian Pope was a superb Proofreader not much passed him. He is of course one half of Black Dwarf Lightmoor publishing these days.

 

Don

[Annie]

Yes, very much like that!

 

Tender Truck with NER Y7.jpg

Oh yes I very much like that.  I think a tender/shunters truck like that would suit your layout just fine Martin.

[Guy Rixon]

DH

 

Maybe I’m misplacing blame, but something is going wrong somewhere.

 

I’ve multiple times bought books on potentially very interesting topics, where the blurb talks about the author having studied the topic while acquiring a PhD and having decided that they have to ‘share it with the world’, only to be disappointed by what a dog’s breakfast has been made of hugely interesting material.

 

I used to take the ‘arising from a PhD’ blurb as a recommendation, passionate author, unusual subject from a new perspective etc. Now I take it as a flashing warning sign.

 

K

 

There's a style of writing, particularly on technical subjects, that I call "exam mode". It's where the author assumes, possibly unconsciously, that the reader knows everything about the subject and is just checking the author's knowledge. Therefore, a patchy, incoherent account of the material will do, provided that it demonstrates the author's grasp of the subject.

 

Exam-mode writing shows up a lot when younger people write about their work. If the last, formal writing somebody has done was their final exams for a bachelor's degree, then exam mode is a major risk. I see it frequently in software documentation written by younger developers.

 

A PhD thesis in natural sciences is not supposed to be written in exam mode, but a lot of them are. The examiner needs to make sure that the author of the thesis can "do science" and exam mode is sometimes enough for that. "Doing science" doesn't require writing monographs for lay readers, so there's no strong requirement for good writing. There is a requirement to show that sufficient research was done; in exam mode, this needs a high word-count.

 

Writing papers for scientific journals is massively harder than writing a thesis for a British university. The requirements on brevity and exactness of writing are much, much higher. Dutch universities seek to curb thesis-bloat by requiring the students to form the bulk of a thesis from published papers. In my limited experience, it works.

[phil_sutters]

 

I think at least alternate postings benefit from being railway related, especially if they have something relevant to the east of England.

[Martin S-C]

Yeah, but it's risky. I mentioned trains once a few posts back and I think I got away with it.

The livery has been depicted nicely in that picture.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Martin S-C

[nick_bastable]

shock and horror     

 

train seen near this thread   

 

Nick

[Hroth]

Its still the Holidays, normal service will be resumed next Thursday.

 

UNtil then, passengers forebearance is appreciated... 

[Shadow]

Its still the Holidays, normal service will be resumed next Thursday.

 

UNtil then, passengers forebearance is appreciated...

Looks like the bus replacement service is a bit busy.

 

 

http://www.gail-thornton.co.uk/index.php

Edited December 29, 2018 by Shadow