Castle Aching

[Martin S-C]

Back when I was still doing Victorian Sci Fi and whimsical Colonial miniature wargaming I painstakingly assembled a bicycle unit from cut up 1/72 scale late 19th century British infantry and some small bicycle models I obtained  from somewhere.  Cyclist companies might seem odd to 21st century folk these days, but back then you have to remember the bicycle was right at the leading edge of technology so it was only natural the military would be interested in making use of bicycles.

My other hobby is historical wargaming using miniatures and with a group of friends I am fighting the WWII Eastern Front campaign in reduced format. We've reached August 1941.

 

The reason I mention this is that in early WWII bicycle troops were still common and a lot of units on both sides in 1941 had reconaissance companies that were bicycle mounted. In similar vein there were thousands of mounted cavalry still on both sides. The Soviets had many many Cossack regiments and divisions while the Germans still had a few full cavalry divisions as well as mounted recon squadrons and regiments in some infantry divisions.

[Martin S-C]

Good Grief I have actually caught up having usually been a page or two behind. I must agree with the concensus on the Drill Hall, as fine a piece of modelling as any I have seen. The interior is an undoubted bonus. BTW isn't it Vicky in the blue sash?

Anyway seasons greetings to one and all and hoping the new year will be better for all.

 

Don

James, might I suggest you sneak a portrait of JA into the drill hall. The one of her in her brown coat sat on the bench a few pages back was suitably elegant.

[Martin S-C]

SEM - if you want to go any distance, you need a period (c1940s) touring bike, not a ‘sit up and beg’, and with one of those the ‘Alps’ should present no obstacle. But, they are very ‘sought after’, which is another word for expensive, because they are both very practical and very good-looking, and any resto would cost a fortune, because the parts are so hard to obtain. If you live roughly where I’m guessing, cycling time to Medstead is c3h 10m, with an impressive 1800ft of up-hill, compensated by c2000ft of downhill. Should be a good workout!

 

Cheap alternative is a brand new Pashley Clubman, which looks the part and is probably quite rideable, but only has three speeds.

 

Wait a moment! I know I've seen those green garage doors before somewhere..

 

Aha!

 

.

 

Thank heavens... back on topic. That was a close one.

[Regularity]

See attached from the Pall Mall Gazette of Thursday 11 April 1907.  The scheme clearly took a while from its conception to when it started to produce results.

 

The tangled ownership of the EWJR, and what were (operationally, at least) its two subsidiaries was no doubt intended to disguise and “protect” the shareholders’ interests, but proved to be the EWJR’s Achilles heel, as it meant they could not sell the EWJR (of interest to the GC via the South Curve at Byfield to gain access to Stratford directly) quickly, circa 1899.

Harry Willmott, who had previously been London District Goods Manager of the Great Eastern, became General Manager of the Lancashire Derbyshire & East Coast Rly, no doubt to protect the GER investment in that company.  He left when the LD&ECR was acquired by the Great Central.  He then became chairman of the SoA&MJR, with Sidney Herbert as vice-chairman. 

 

A pair of latter day would-be Hudsons, I would say.

Did the Great Central unload their shareholding in the Stratford once it no longer formed part of their strategy?  I imagine the other shareholders would have been happy to accept any reasonable offer, whoever it was from.

 

No one was interested: the line was effectively a minor pawn in railway politics, and without the interest of the GCR (who would themselves have needed to upgrade the line between Byfield and Stratford), the only hope was the Midland, who decided the cost wasn’t worth it.

I am not totally sure what happened under the Grouping Act, whether the Central’s shares passed to the LNER or were exchanged for some nominal cash value. (Too modern for my interests!) The SMJR was not a major part of the LMS, and was simply absorbed. As it connected at each extremity with the former Midland Railway, it became part of that division, with loco allocations transferred to Saltley.

Incidentally, Sidney Herbert made quite a business of orchestrating shareholder revolts against the management of smaller railways (the Cambrian and the Isle of Wight Central, for example).  The directors of the West Norfolk Railway must be hoping he doesn't decide to holiday on their part of the coast.

Sounds like the various carpet baggers who took many building societies out of mutual ownership, to make a quick profit when they were acquired by or merged into banks...

[nick_bastable]

There is a model of the gun in Newhaven Fort, which is across the harbour from the site of the firing exercise in the photo.

Coast defence artillery rail-mounted Newhaven Fort 6 8 2009.jpg

more info here 

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QX0TDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=newhaven+rail+gun&source=bl&ots=Bk6amx1j9P&sig=ss_2hvpeUBHcPpfPburAVm31G_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKl7672rPfAhVnRBUIHYxEC1M4ChDoATAEegQIAhAB#v=onepage&q=newhaven%20rail%20gun&f=false

 

Nick

[Nearholmer]

One of my favourite ephemeral railway stations was on the ‘banana line’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salcey_Forest_railway_station ...... maybe I plugged it here before, but for sheer silliness it takes some beating as a station, having been really, really nowhere, and all but inaccessible.

 

That one was demolished donkeys years ago, but it’s sibling at (some distance from) Stoke Bruerne is a house now, I think, although it stood abandoned for a very long time, certainly all through the 1980s.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Regularity]

One of my favourite ephemeral railway stations was on the ‘banana line’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salcey_Forest_railway_station ...... maybe I plugged it here before, but for sheer silliness it takes some beating as a station, having been really, really nowhere, and all but inaccessible.

 

Yep. Down the road and across the fields from my parents.

[corneliuslundie]

But there has been a very nice model of Broome so it was not all a waste of time.

There is also an early Microsoft Train Simulator model of the line.

There are a few more former Cambrian Railways directors who you may prefer not to see in the streets of CA; also a certain Sir George White, scourge of the Taff Vale Railway management.

Jonathan

[Regularity]

The thing about bicycles and the military is that they are low tech, easy to maintain, cheaper than horses, don’t require extra fuel and produce no discernible exhaust or noise, and enable soldiers to more rapidly cover a reasonable distance over firm ground.

The downside is that they have limited payload and generally require firm ground. (This is pre-mountain bike, of course.)

 

Great for behind the lines use on roads when sending messages by hand, maybe, but not of great tactical benefit across a sodden field, through bushes, or under barbed wire.

[Andy Kirkham]

But there has been a very nice model of Broome so it was not all a waste of time.

There is also an early Microsoft Train Simulator model of the line.

There are a few more former Cambrian Railways directors who you may prefer not to see in the streets of CA; also a certain Sir George White, scourge of the Taff Vale Railway management.

Sir George White.jpg

Jonathan

As a bristolian I'm familiar with Sir George White, but I didn't know of his involvement with the Taff Vale. Could you elucidate?

[brack]

The thing about bicycles and the military is that they are low tech, easy to maintain, cheaper than horses, don’t require extra fuel and produce no discernible exhaust or noise, and enable soldiers to more rapidly cover a reasonable distance over firm ground.

The downside is that they have limited payload and generally require firm ground. (This is pre-mountain bike, of course.)

 

Great for behind the lines use on roads when sending messages by hand, maybe, but not of great tactical benefit across a sodden field, through bushes, or under barbed wire.

Essentially the same idea as mounted infantry, but less fodder required. Quick way of getting footsoldiers shifted about.

[Annie]

Famously during the Boer War nine cycle troops (some webpages say eleven cycle troops) from New Zealand pursued and captured Boers on horseback.`

 

 

 

https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/capture-boer-soliders-cyclists

Edited December 22, 2018 by Annie

[Nearholmer]

Cycling earlier with small daughter, and we passed three riders on horses going the other way.

“They smell terrible; I’m glad we’ve got bikes and don’t have to ride horses.”

Can’t argue with that; they did smell terrible.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Nearholmer

[brack]

Cycling earlier with small daughter, and we passed three riders on horses going the other way.

 

“They smell terrible; I’m glad we’ve got bikes and don’t have to ride horses.”

 

Can’t argue with that; they did smell terrible.

And were the horses fragrant too? Edited December 22, 2018 by brack

[Nearholmer]

Anything I may say may be taken down and used in evidence against me ....... so, I'm keeping schtum.

[Martin S-C]

There are a few more former Cambrian Railways directors who you may prefer not to see in the streets of CA; also a certain Sir George White, scourge of the Taff Vale Railway management.

Sir George White.jpg

 

I expect he scourged them with that moustache.

[Martin S-C]

The thing about bicycles and the military is that they are low tech, easy to maintain, cheaper than horses, don’t require extra fuel and produce no discernible exhaust or noise, and enable soldiers to more rapidly cover a reasonable distance over firm ground.

The downside is that they have limited payload and generally require firm ground. (This is pre-mountain bike, of course.)

 

Great for behind the lines use on roads when sending messages by hand, maybe, but not of great tactical benefit across a sodden field, through bushes, or under barbed wire.

Cycle troops could move far more rapidly on a metalled road than foot troops which is their principal raison d'etre (including your other reason, cost). Bear in mind that ALL strategic military movement is by road, never across country. Even Custer and his pals in the 1870s figting the Indians on the almost trackless plains always moved across the land using trails, simply because if a force went along a trail or road it was easy to communicate with them - you sent a rider after them by the same road and therefore should contact them.

 

Moving across country in military terms means moving tactically and usually in contact with the enemy or a very likely expectation of doing so, in these cases the bicycle troops would just dump ther bikes and an admin unit would bring them up later.

[Hroth]

Cycling earlier with small daughter, and we passed three riders on horses going the other way.

 

“They smell terrible; I’m glad we’ve got bikes and don’t have to ride horses.”

 

Can’t argue with that; they did smell terrible.

 

They might have been model railway enthusiasts returning from an exhibition?

 

Well, its a possibility!

[Nearholmer]

I don’t think so. They were polite, cheerful, and, so far as riding gear permits, smartly dressed.

[corneliuslundie]

Sir George White was a major shareholder in both the Taff Vale and Rhymney Railways. In 1890 the TVR was going through a bad patch, partly because of poor management - essentially the directors wouldn't spend money on improvements - but mainly because the Barry Railway was stealing its traffic. Dividends had more than halved. Sir George that year claimed to hold more shares than any of the directors, and began a process which led to the replacement of the directorate, though he stood back and never became one. It did help turn the fortunes of the company around. Although he spoke at RR general meetings he was never so critical of the directors.

The story of what i called the Great Revolt is in Welsh Railways Archive Volume  No 2.

Sir George also had many other investments in transport including cofounding the Bristol Aeroplane Company.

I hope the WNR will never see similar scenes at its annual general meetings.

Jonathan

[Regularity]

Bear in mind that ALL strategic military movement is by road, never across country.

What about rail?

 

And I did allude to the lack of tactical benefit. The strategic benefit would be limited, unless each cyclist had a trailer to carry other equipment, as the ultimate failure of many armies was the lack of a reliable supply chain.

I don’t think so. They were polite, cheerful, and, so far as riding gear permits, smartly dressed.

LMAO.

[Martin S-C]

Rail is the same as road in this context.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Regularity]

Rail is the same as road in this context.

I wish it was more often...

[Andy Kirkham]

Sir George White was a major shareholder in both the Taff Vale and Rhymney Railways. In 1890 the TVR was going through a bad patch, partly because of poor management - essentially the directors wouldn't spend money on improvements - but mainly because the Barry Railway was stealing its traffic. Dividends had more than halved. Sir George that year claimed to hold more shares than any of the directors, and began a process which led to the replacement of the directorate, though he stood back and never became one. It did help turn the fortunes of the company around. Although he spoke at RR general meetings he was never so critical of the directors.

The story of what i called the Great Revolt is in Welsh Railways Archive Volume  No 2.

Sir George also had many other investments in transport including cofounding the Bristol Aeroplane Company.

I hope the WNR will never see similar scenes at its annual general meetings.

Jonathan

Thank you, most interesting. I knew the Taff Vale had Bristol connections - James Inskip* of the eminent Bristol family was chairman of the company - but I had no idea George White was involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_George_White,_1st_Baronet

 

*Betjeman's Bristol and Clifton ends:

                                         ...Well good-bye

Time flies. I must be going. Come again.

There are some pleasant people living here.

I know the Inskips very well indeed.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Andy Kirkham

[Hroth]

I don’t think so. They were polite, cheerful, and, so far as riding gear permits, smartly dressed.

"Polite"?

 

As in masquerading as a police officer?

 

 

 

They're as bad as the people who make names up with personalised numberplates.