Castle Aching

[Donw]

Using a thin metal for the roof would miss the roof detail.

You have to make choices

 

Don

[Edwardian]

44 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Whats the overall width over the ducket? It looks like it could do with being a bit wider to allow a proper window on the door end.

 

Also, is it a close coupled set? The buffer shanks look very short.

 

Andy G

 

Thanks.

 

The width is as per drawing, or should be.

 

Those are actually the buffer shanks of the non-close coupled coaches! The shaft of the buffer head makes up the distance. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Donw said:

Using a thin metal for the roof would miss the roof detail.

You have to make choices

 

Well, no, it would have to be applied separately - could be printed components. "Some assembly required".

Edited September 15, 2022 by Compound2632
typing going to pot

[Donw]

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Well, no, it would have to be applied separately - could be printed components. "Some assembly required".

That would be my approach but a bit of a pain getting all the details nicely aligned on a rake of coaches not to mention the time it would take. So I might well opt for the printed roof and perhaps thin the edges down

 

 

Don

[Edwardian]

28 minutes ago, Donw said:

That would be my approach but a bit of a pain getting all the details nicely aligned on a rake of coaches not to mention the time it would take. So I might well opt for the printed roof and perhaps thin the edges down

 

 

Don

 

Part of the thickness of the rooves is actually masked by including the cantrail and stepping down to it. I realise that a similar thing mist be done at the coach ends where, anyway, there should be some overhang.

 

 

[uax6]

To make it look thinner on the end, you could introduce another bit of beading on the end of the roof, as often you will find that there is a true carriage end, then the end of the roof itself (sticking out), but between the two there is a bead, which helps to pull the canvas taught. 

So on the end above add a thinner 'step' on the end, and then a thicker end of roof onto the slab that is shown.

 

Andy G

[Skinnylinny]

I may be misunderstanding the render, but is it just me or is the end beading on the non-brake end of the brake third extremely heavy? It looks like the panelling is recessed by a good several inches!

It doesn't look nearly so heavy on the all-third.



The footboards look very heavy to me - I wonder if they would maintain most of their strength and straightness if they were still that same thickness on the inner face, but tapered thinner towards the outside edge. I've certainly found that 0.7mm thickness (while still being fairly chunky to scale) is usually quite happily printable, even when tapered (on the underside) to 0.5mm on the visible edge. That being said, I'm not familiar with the printer you'll be using.

I also note the waist beading stops in line with the outer edge of the end quarterlights - I had been under the impression this would have continued further towards the end of the vehicle, as would the top quarter panel under the roofline.  

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

I may be misunderstanding the render, but is it just me or is the end beading on the non-brake end of the brake third extremely heavy? It looks like the panelling is recessed by a good several inches!

It doesn't look nearly so heavy on the all-third.



The footboards look very heavy to me - I wonder if they would maintain most of their strength and straightness if they were still that same thickness on the inner face, but tapered thinner towards the outside edge. I've certainly found that 0.7mm thickness (while still being fairly chunky to scale) is usually quite happily printable, even when tapered (on the underside) to 0.5mm on the visible edge. That being said, I'm not familiar with the printer you'll be using.

I also note the waist beading stops in line with the outer edge of the end quarterlights - I had been under the impression this would have continued further towards the end of the vehicle, as would the top quarter panel under the roofline.  

 

 

Good points all. Thanks, Linny

[Edwardian]

I had forgotten this Hattons Review

 

It shows something of the Genesis coaches.

 

Note that the headstock forms part of the body component and that the metal foot boards unscrew.  The implications of this are that there is likely room to take, say 1-3mm off the solebars at each end to make, say 31'6", 31', or 30'6" coaches as required by the WNR.  I might manage a 30' coach if I need one. I don't see that I'd need anything shorter.

 

The main issue here would be that I would lose the place where the foot board assembly screws in, but it would seem reasonably possible, having clipped something off the ends of the footboards, to solder something that would act as a end clip to the underside of the upper board. 

 

With these minor alterations in length, I do not think any change in the wheel-base would have been required on the prototype. 

 

If I need a significantly shorter 6-wheel vehicle, I have the option of using the Hattons 4-wheel 28' coach chassis, perhaps fitting a Hattons middle axle assembly.  Just a thought - no plans. 

 

If this works as I anticipate, I should be able to tailor a chassis length to the sort of cut-and-shut bodies I anticipate. it would also allow me to contemplate designs for 1880s 6-wheel coach bodies of differing lengths to use with the Hattons chassis. 

 

Jenny gets the roof off one Here but goes no further.

 

[Nearholmer]

Apologies for nitriding ( I have no idea what nitriding is, maybe a sort of equestrian sport for very tiny people who live on the scalp. It was invented by autocorrect) in the middle of a rake of coaches, but this book is so good that I can’t contain my recommendation.

 

Ive not read it, merely skimmed, and thank MetropolitanH for the loan of it.

 

The book is effectively an account of the spirit and f CA made flesh, and the model making manages to capture the best of both the Vale Scene and Madder Valley in one go.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

Re: Amberdale.

 

There are 3 pages of reviews, (positive) comment and jokes in the Amberdale thread in the Pre-Grouping section which may have escaped you as the last post was back in August.

 

 

Its well worth wading through!

 

[Edwardian]

Thought must now be given to the WNR 6-wheelers, for the Hattons coaches are soon to be received.

 

I am expecting one each of the 6-wheel types. These will be the oil-lit GWR ones, so I will not be using them for WNR coaches, as these will be gas lit. In terms of the ones I shall use the bodies for, the 1890s coaches, I'll probably wait until next year for the Midland ones.

 

For the 1880s coaches, the idea is to use the chassis and replace the bodies with an older style, so the chassis of any gas-lit Hattons 6-wheeler will do as the donor.  

 

It is the design of these 1880s 6-wheelers I want to consider next. 

 

The Hattons coaches are all a scale 32". That is the longest I want and I expect to shorten some where this better fits the chosen compartment widths.

 

To recapitulate an earlier post, I believe that the construction of the Hattons coaches will facilitate taking a length of up to at least 3mm off the end of each sole bar, so my working assumption is that coach lengths of 30'6" to 32" are possible without any need for drastic modification. 

 

In terms of style, I like the round top panel and window style.  The 1880s coaches would have recessed waist panels as more typical of the period, rather than the raised beading that more typified the 1860s-1870s, and the door vents would probably have ra more rounded shape than the rectangular ones on the MC&WCo 4-wheelers, as, again, the square style is more of an 1860s-1870s design cue. 

 

As such, contemporary GER coaches are a reasonable starting point. GER coaches no doubt because Holden had  the benefit of a Swindon upbringing, have turn-unders to the ends like GW coaches. I will stick with flat ends. The GER's long commode handles will not feature and the GER's deep waist bands will be replaced by something more average. Other than that, the GER coaches should give a sense of what look I'm aiming for. 

 

There are unlikely to be 6-compartment or 5-compat. lavatory of luggage Thirds. All Thirds are likely to be 5-compartments, the width of which would bring 5-compartments to under the 32' of the unmodified Hattons chassis.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts, comments, suggestions welcome. 

 

 

[Compound2632]

But what are you going to do with the bodies?

[uax6]

Burn them..... they are GW after all....

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

But what are you going to do with the bodies?

 

Sell them to medical students.

 

 

I could, of course, produce some bogie coaches with them, after all, some railway companies actually did marry short coach bodies to form bogie coaches.  

 

36 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Burn them..... they are GW after all....

 

Andy G

 

No, I won't be using the GW ones, because they're oil-lit. 

 

If they had turn under ends, I'd be very tempted to use them as GW coaches! 

 

So there.

 

 

 

 

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Sell them to medical students.

 

 

 

 

Eh?

 

What did you say he died of?

 

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Thought must now be given to the WNR 6-wheelers, for the Hattons coaches are soon to be received.

 

I am expecting one each of the 6-wheel types. These will be the oil-lit GWR ones, so I will not be using them for WNR coaches, as these will be gas lit. In terms of the ones I shall use the bodies for, the 1890s coaches, I'll probably wait until next year for the Midland ones.

 

For the 1880s coaches, the idea is to use the chassis and replace the bodies with an older style, so the chassis of any gas-lit Hattons 6-wheeler will do as the donor.  

 

It is the design of these 1880s 6-wheelers I want to consider next. 

 

The Hattons coaches are all a scale 32". That is the longest I want and I expect to shorten some where this better fits the chosen compartment widths.

 

To recapitulate an earlier post, I believe that the construction of the Hattons coaches will facilitate taking a length of up to at least 3mm off the end of each sole bar, so my working assumption is that coach lengths of 30'6" to 32" are possible without any need for drastic modification. 

 

In terms of style, I like the round top panel and window style.  The 1880s coaches would have recessed waist panels as more typical of the period, rather than the raised beading that more typified the 1860s-1870s, and the door vents would probably have ra more rounded shape than the rectangular ones on the MC&WCo 4-wheelers, as, again, the square style is more of an 1860s-1870s design cue. 

 

As such, contemporary GER coaches are a reasonable starting point. GER coaches no doubt because Holden had  the benefit of a Swindon upbringing, have turn-unders to the ends like GW coaches. I will stick with flat ends. The GER's long commode handles will not feature and the GER's deep waist bands will be replaced by something more average. Other than that, the GER coaches should give a sense of what look I'm aiming for. 

 

There are unlikely to be 6-compartment or 5-compat. lavatory of luggage Thirds. All Thirds are likely to be 5-compartments, the width of which would bring 5-compartments to under the 32' of the unmodified Hattons chassis.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts, comments, suggestions welcome. 

 

 

Didn't the Saffron Walden MRC once have something like that as a clubhouse? You could replicate that, with a model of the WNR inside, which would in turn feature a model of the clubhouse with a model of the model of the WNR inside...

[ChrisN]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Didn't the Saffron Walden MRC once have something like that as a clubhouse? You could replicate that, with a model of the WNR inside, which would in turn feature a model of the clubhouse with a model of the model of the WNR inside...

 

This is why that is a bad idea.

[Compound2632]

23 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

This is why that is a bad idea.

 

Besides which, being po-faced about it, such carriages as the Hattons models represent were far too modern to be sold off and used in that way by 1905. By the 1920s, one could. But for 1905, your clubhouse would be some carriage body of 1860s vintage.

[Edwardian]

44 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Besides which, being po-faced about it, such carriages as the Hattons models represent were far too modern to be sold off and used in that way by 1905. By the 1920s, one could. But for 1905, your clubhouse would be some carriage body of 1860s vintage.

 

Yes, 1860s.

 

I do hope to include some of the WNR's 1850s-1860s Joseph Wright coaches, or similar, as grounded bodies. I thought the Castle Aching locomens' bothy could be one such use. 

 

One of my pet peeves is the use of Ratio GW 4-wheelers, fin de siècle coaches, or the the Clayton MR clerestories, as grounded bodies on layouts set before the 1940s!  Very often 1860s-1870s coaches grounded by the Edwardians were still going strong as bothies, sheds, or platform shelters, and also for various non-railway domestic uses, into the 1950s and well beyond, so are always more likely to be the vintage seen, even in BR days. That Ratio grounded GW coach is seriously over-used by the modelling fraternity, IMHO.

 

There is one on Butley Town (a mid-'70s layout), housing the Heybridge angling club. It was conceived and run as a vaguely Grouping era layout, despite the solecism of WR chocolate and cream on the infrastructure, and such touches as the modern policman, moped and road crossing. When I restore it, it will probably be back-dateable to 1910s-1920s, so the rolling stock running would be contemporaneous with the grounded body!  Not ideal. I itch to swap in an old Broad Gauge or ancient Northern Division SG body.  

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Besides which, being po-faced about it, such carriages as the Hattons models represent were far too modern to be sold off and used in that way by 1905. By the 1920s, one could. But for 1905, your clubhouse would be some carriage body of 1860s vintage.

Perhaps it could be an early exhibition train?

 

No, I thought not.

[Edwardian]

Just now, St Enodoc said:

Perhaps it could be an early exhibition train?

 

No, I thought not.

 

I suspect what I'll do is cut and shut any spare bodies to create bogie coaches. If I cannot by such means achieve an actual pre-Grouping prototype for some company or other, they'll find a freelance identity of some description and probably end up on the North-South Junction Railway or some such. A freelance motor train driving trailer is another possibility.  

 

However, bodies will only become spare after I've raided them for cut and shut variants of the 1890s WNR coaches in due course. I'll need to join compartment ends from brake thirds and rob double luggage doors to form luggage composites or thirds. 

 

The good news is that the plan to use the Hattons chassis with new 1880s bodies means there will be plenty of spare bodies to help modify other Hattons coaches to produce WNR 1890s coaches in due course. 

[Edwardian]

Over lunch the Postie arrived with the Hattons GW-liveried Genesis coaches arrived.

 

I remain convinced that these will be a superb starting point for freelance coaches and conversions, including the WNR 1890s stock and chassis for the WNR 1880s stock.

 

Here is my initial assessment:

 

 

[NeilHB]

They do look very nice indeed - oh for the equivalent in 7mm scale! An interesting comparison as well James with the Hornby offering - maybe its just me but the Hornby one looks green rather than brown? 

[Edwardian]

23 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

They do look very nice indeed - oh for the equivalent in 7mm scale!

 

 

Well, you do have proper Stroudleys RTR!

 

23 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

 

An interesting comparison as well James with the Hornby offering - maybe its just me but the Hornby one looks green rather than brown? 

 

It does, doesn't it? It's not the only image I've seen where they look so. I can only give the same reply as I just have on the Hattons' topic:

 

It is brown, but I know what you mean. I did see a picture of the Hornby GW coaches in the products section of a magazine. They did indeed look green, which got me quite excited for a moment as they resembled West Norfolk livery! 

 

In this case, I took the pictures of the Hattons and Hornby coaches together a short time ago today. Conditions were indoors (it's a dull rainy day in the North) with the benefit of a daylight lamp I use for modelling. 

 

I conclude that there must be a green cast to the Hornby paint that comes to the fore in certain lighting conditions.