Castle Aching

[corneliuslundie]

I have a similar dilemma with Rhymney Railway wagon livery - though with bells on, see below. There is some evidence that they were painted red until towards the end of the 10th century but no indication of when the change took place, and compared with the GWR there are precious few views of any wagons. In fact it is perfectly possible that they were never red, though the evidence, what there is, seems to point that way.

The extra uncertainty is over lettering. Several official drawings of Rhymney Railway wagons show shaded lettering, but no-one has ever reported seeing one in service, so either the drawings were not followed in the paintshop or shaded lettering had also disappeared late in the 19th century. And then there is the little matter of the blue wagons mentioned in a report to the Board in the early days of the company. So I have taken the view that by 1912 a few old wagons might still be in red, but almost all will be in grey, and have therefore painted a few of the oldest designs red.

Now someone please prove me wrong.

I am sure that similar tales can be told for many other companies.

That is the joy of pre-Grouping modelling - that and the fact that no-one can say "It wasn't like that. I saw them".

Mind you I am a little concerned at the apparent takeover of the WNR by the "Premier Line".

Jonathan

Edited August 13, 2018 by corneliuslundie

[Hroth]

I have a similar dilemma with Rhymney Railway wagon livery - though with bells on, see below. There is some evidence that they were painted red until towards the end of the 10th century but no indication of when the change took place, and compared with the GWR there are precious few views of any wagons. In fact it is perfectly possible that they were never red, though the evidence, what there is, seems to point that way.

The extra uncertainty is over lettering. Several official drawings of Rhymney Railway wagons show shaded lettering, but no-one has ever reported seeing one in service, so either the drawings were not followed in the paintshop or shaded lettering had also disappeared late in the 19th century. And then there is the little matter of the blue wagons mentioned in a report to the Board in the early days of the company. So I have taken the view that by 1912 a few old wagons might still be in red, but almost all will be in grey, and have therefore painted a few of the oldest designs red.

Now someone please prove me wrong.

I am sure that similar tales can be told for many other companies.

That is the joy of pre-Grouping modelling - that and the fact that no-one can say "It wasn't like that. I saw them".

Mind you I am a little concerned at the apparent takeover of the WNR by the "Premier Line".

Jonathan

 

Gosh - the Rhymney has been going for a long time then!

[DonB]

Did I miss the reference in the Domesday Book?

[Martin S-C]

This'll upset the Trevithick party!

[Edwardian]

Only if modelling Soviet railways.

 

If you need to find the truth, go to comparethenerveagents.com. Simples.

[Edwardian]

Did I miss the reference in the Domesday Book?

 

I assume not, because, presumably, by the late 11th Century they were painted grey.

 

Of course, we only have one reference to blue wagons, and the text is sadly corrupted, dating from the 9th century Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. Possibly this was a hitherto unsuspected use of woad.

 

None of which should detract from a most interesting and informative post, Jonathan, for which thanks.  I discount Norfolk, but, out of interest, how far afield might a RR wagon have roamed pre-WW1? 

 

And don't worry about the "Premier Line" wagons, they will be suitably out-numbered before I'm done!

 

Of course, if you want to delve into wagon colours of the very earliest Welsh railways, you're into the fossil record of the pre-Cambrian period. 

[Compound2632]

Of course, we only have one reference to blue wagons, and the text is sadly corrupted, dating from the 9th century Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. Possibly this was a hitherto unsuspected use of woad. 

 

This fell out of use after several accidents involving wagons wrunning wrong woad.

[webbcompound]

I assume not, because, presumably, by the late 11th Century they were painted grey.

 

Of course, we only have one reference to blue wagons, and the text is sadly corrupted, dating from the 9th century Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. Possibly this was a hitherto unsuspected use of woad.

 

None of which should detract from a most interesting and informative post, Jonathan, for which thanks.  I discount Norfolk, but, out of interest, how far afield might a RR wagon have roamed pre-WW1? 

 

And don't worry about the "Premier Line" wagons, they will be suitably out-numbered before I'm done!

 

Of course, if you want to delve into wagon colours of the very earliest Welsh railways, you're into the fossil record of the pre-Cambrian period. 

The Black Book of Rhymney (cAD987) was translated into English by the monks at Gloucester, probably in the 1150s. Although only fragments remain one previously enigmatic passage:

 

"Ond belocath sithon wer a thissa waegn blaehaewen be thissa waegn graeg  awendlican"

 

Is clearly now seen as a reference to the livery change, which must therefore be before the last quarter of the 10th century

Edited August 13, 2018 by webbcompound

[Talltim]

You’d never believe that much of his career was spent proof reading...

[nick_bastable]

those typos are ###### 

 

Nick 

 

 

it appears that rhymes with  rudders is banned how very odd 

Edited August 13, 2018 by nick_bastable

[Martin S-C]

They banned "udders"? Most curious.

[south_tyne]

Fair point, though finding a quality black pudding is hard these days.

 

Due to the centralisation of slaughtering, only very few artisan butchers have been able to make arrangements to harvest the blood from the abattoir. As a consequence, about 96% of black pudding sold in the UK is, apparently, made from imported frozen blood.

 

Anyhow, I said it was the best breakfast in Devon; I never claimed it were t' proper Northern breakfast ...

Red sauce, brown sauce or no sauce at all!?

[St Enodoc]

Red sauce, brown sauce or no sauce at all!?

Worcestershire sauce.

Edited August 14, 2018 by St Enodoc

[Edwardian]

They banned "udders"? Most curious.

 

My daughter listens to a chanteuse who seems to be invoking her paramour to meet her in the middle of Lidl.

 

However, it seems that, in fact, she has managed to rhyme the words "middle" and "little" as a result of her apparent, and in this case fortuitous, inability to pronounce the letter 't'.

 

Reminds me of the Fry and Laurie exchange as Jeeves and Wooster re Minnie the Moocher and the clever way the song rhymes "Sweden" with "Needin"; "Almost, Sir". 

 

 

Worcester sauce.

 

Tut, tut, Worcestershire Sauce.

 

But, yes, the King of Condiments. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Edwardian

[St Enodoc]

My daughter listens to a chanteuse who seems to be invoking her paramour to meet her in the middle of Lidl.

 

However, it seems that, in fact, she has managed to rhyme the words "middle" and "little" as a result of her apparent, and in this case fortuitous, inability to pronounce the letter 't'.

 

Reminds me of the Fry and Laurie exchange as Jeeves and Wooster re Minnie the Moocher and the clever way the song rhymes "Sweden" with "Needin"; "Almost, Sir". 

 

 

 

Tut, tut, Worcestershire Sauce.

 

But, yes, the King of Condiments. 

Of course. Original post corrected.

[DonB]

My daughter listens to a chanteuse who seems to be invoking her paramour to meet her in the middle of Lidl.

 

However, it seems that, in fact, she has managed to rhyme the words "middle" and "little" as a result of her apparent, and in this case fortuitous, inability to pronounce the letter 't'.

 

Reminds me of the Fry and Laurie exchange as Jeeves and Wooster re Minnie the Moocher and the clever way the song rhymes "Sweden" with "Needin"; "Almost, Sir". 

 

 

 

My M-I-L

[Compound2632]

Tut, tut, Worcestershire Sauce.

 

But, yes, the King of Condiments. 

 

Lea & Perrins, of Midland Road, Worcester - but sadly never rail-connected. Perrins spent his half of the Worcestershire Sauce fortune on endowing the organic chemistry laboratory at Oxford; Lea, I'm told, spent his half on wine, women and song.

[St Enodoc]

Lea & Perrins, of Midland Road, Worcester - but sadly never rail-connected. Perrins spent his half of the Worcestershire Sauce fortune on endowing the organic chemistry laboratory at Oxford; Lea, I'm told, spent his half on wine, women and song.

Any relation Stephen?

[Compound2632]

Any relation Stephen?

 

Very common name in the West Midlands. 

 

Looking up Lea & Perrins, I see the Wikipedia article claims the factory did have a siding but there's no evidence of such on the OS 25" map. So I doubt I'm ever going to track down a Lea & Perrins coal wagon.

[TheQ]

 

 

 

 

Tut, tut, Worcestershire Sauce.

 

But, yes, the King of Condiments. 

Just Don't try what the Americans (Kraft) call Worcestershire sauce. Made of soya,  think mayonaise with a splash of something brown thrown in..

[corneliuslundie]

I am glad my typo caused considerable enjoyment. As Talltim says,I am involved in publishing, but have never been able to proof read my own work so I get others to do it, including my long suffering wife, who is the best proof reader I have. She recently spotted an error which had been missed by the author and a whole editorial committee of proofreaders.

Actually, I am glad I was never tempted to a career as a proof reader. In my first job we had two and they were both extremely miserable characters.

I suspect that Rhymney wagons would have been extremely rare in west Norfolk (or should that be West Norfolk?). There were less than 2000 all told over he life of the company about 65 years).  And the coal wagons from the area would not have been seen that far away either as it was only anthracite that went far outside South Wales. The only possible traffic I can think of is finished castings from the Rhymney Iron Company, probably covered in a tarpaulin.

Likewise, I don't at the moment have any WNR wagons on my shopping list.

But a Cambrian 2-plank with slates, yes, of course. And you an now get transfers from the WRRC, though check the right livery for the period.

Jonathan

PS If you really do have a great urge to model a Rhymney wagon I can probably provide a drawing.

[Edwardian]

Just Don't try what the Americans (Kraft) call Worcestershire sauce. Made of soya,  think mayonaise with a splash of something brown thrown in..

 

Well, judging from the taste, they make their chocolate from soap, so that surprises me not at all.

[Martin S-C]

Oh, its chocolate? I wondered what it was. I thought it really was soap. I thought it was odd that some of our guests ate it off the bathroom sink.

[RedGemAlchemist]

I prefer soy sauce. Surprising good with chicken. Just make sure you get the high quality stuff and don't overdo it or you might as well be drinking salt.

Edited August 14, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Hroth]

Just Don't try what the Americans (Kraft) call Worcestershire sauce. Made of soya,  think mayonaise with a splash of something brown thrown in..

Does it have corn syrup too?  Its a law (I believe) that every American foodstuff has to contain the stuff to support the farmers.  Meat is exempt, provided that its stuffed to the gills with antibiotics.

 

Europe barely classifies American chocolate as a foodstuff, mainly becaues there is some organic content.  Otherwise it would be called tile grout.