Castle Aching

[Regularity]

15 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

They look like they've been stored in a garden shed. In filthy condition. What a shame.

I believe that they were stored with the intention of putting them on display in a museum dedicated to finescale model railways, along with Thame.

Unfortunately, the cellar in which they were stored was flooded, which explains their condition.

[Regularity]

36 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Usual up-himself P4 comment by the seller (anything OO is a 'train set'). If I had the dosh I'd buy the lot and re-wheel to OO! 

Do you know, I am not sure the word “usual” is correct here.

I can’t recall seeing it said.

Happy to be proved wrong, if you have the evidence to back up your assertion.

[webbcompound]

Well he isn't a P4 modeller is he, just a collector. He bought a load of kit years ago, then didn't make use of it or build anything new. As for the "up himself" comment, well whenever a new RTR comes out plenty of "up themselves" 00 gauge collectors come out of the woodwork to nit pick its accuracy here on RMweb. The difference in approach is probably between collectors and modellers. Lets not get divisive on here. I follow this and a couple of other threads to imbibe the skill and ingenuity of the work. They are all 00 modellers. I model in P4. We model railways.

[Regularity]

Gentlemen (and Ladies),

 

We all make choices about the modelling standards we wish to follow, balancing resources of time, money, space and available tools and equipment against (perceived) skills and scope of the desired project.

 

I read the eBay posts remarks as an attempt to warn people off as it was P4, not 00, and the comment about train sets was there to make the difference clear to potential buyers whose participation in the hobby was restricted to an initial experience with a trainset. It probably could be better worded, but having met the vendor a couple of times at exhibitions, all I can say is that the aspersions being cast about his character are untrue and say a lot more about the throwers of stones than their target.

 

As I said, “Gentlemen (and Ladies)”. Could we start behaving like them?

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Regularity
Add screenshot of text of eBay posting.

[Regularity]

28 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

Doesn’t that coin short out the track power supply?

[Nearholmer]

Hmmmm ....... I read the controversial 00 words exactly as Regularity has interpreted them: as a warning to the uninitiated.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Regularity said:

All “bargains” are only such if you have the money, and if it’s what you actually want.

...which is what I said in my original post Simon!

 

I know who the seller is and I think that he's doing the right thing by trying to get the models to a good home now that he can't realise his original plans/dreams. I wish him good luck.

[Hroth]

7 hours ago, Regularity said:

 

Doesn’t that coin short out the track power supply?

Perhaps it stops the loco moving inadvertently!

 

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I read the controversial 00 words exactly as Regularity has interpreted them: as a warning to the uninitiated.

 

I agree, but flagging it up as unsuitable for OO gauge would have been sufficient, "train set" was unnecessary, though no doubt done with the best of intentions.  Perhaps the uninitiated would also be warded off by the starting bid price, and the "buy it now" price.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Hroth
oops...

[Edwardian]

I simply detest snobbery in all its forms, and believe it to be alive and well among self-styled finescale modellers.  Many have their funny little prejudices, I find - If I had an overbridge on my layout, I'd park a 'bus on it, just to annoy them - but it's in the sin of overweening pride that they sometimes truly offend.

 

The inclusion of the 'train set' comment seemed a 'just can't help himself' remark, betraying a less than inclusive attitude to the wider hobby. 

 

Only recently, at the NRM, I came across an unutterably insufferable young man (P4 modeller) who had a lot (of negative, ill-informed and incorrect) criticisms of the Rapido Stirling Single, which proceeded from a place of immense arrogance.  He had that stereotypical lack of the social graces and self-awareness associated with the nerd, yet managed to combine this with a massive superiority complex - a most unattractive combination - like some teenage computer nerd who could hack into NASA but who couldn't get a girlfriend.  Or find the soap. 

 

Iain Rice appears rare in being able to communicate successfully with ordinary mortals.  Several others I have come across in print seem to betray an assumption of superiority in all that they write. 

 

I note that the Scalefour Society has toned down it's home page in recent years, but it used to say something horribly smug. 

 

With all respect to Webb Compound, who remains most welcome and whom I have no wish to offend, I stand by my earlier quip in as much as his brethren can often display off-putting attitudes. I am struggling enough with OO bodgery, and I, while I appreciate hand-built track to fine scale standards as giving a far better look than traditional proprietary track, I never notice whether it's OO or EM, or even, on occasion, P4, so the effort to get to a less inaccurate gauge is largely wasted on me. If I did want to travel that road, however, I'm not sure I'd find this most self-consciously finescale sub-culture particularly conducive fellow travellers. 

 

There may be something of a self-created image problem here.  Funnily enough, I have never detected similar snobbery emanating from the 2FS culture, or S scale modellers (who must be more eccentrics than fantatics, surely?). 

 

But, hey, no particularly segment of the hobby needs to justify itself to me, and this is a generalised impression that doebtless does not apply wholly or even partially to many fine chaps ploughing the P4 furrow, so I am sorry to have been dismissive of them as a whole, and apologies to Webb Compound in particular.   

[Donw]

On 27/04/2019 at 13:54, Guy Rixon said:

Dartmoor was glaciated, but I think it's more "school of" than S.'s own work.

 

Some glaciation yes but  the Steep sided drowned valleys to be found in Devon and Cornwall are noted for not being due to Glaciers or has that view been revised (much of what I was taught seem to have been revised since !).

 

At present pages are being added faster than I am progressing I may never catch up.

 

Regarding the expansion of the WNR it seems odd to me that it should reach Norwich but lack a good route right into Kings Lynn. This could be down to traffic flows   but Railways that never got to the places intended were not unkown. The Manchester and Milford being a grand example. One could never imagine using any part of it's metals for a sensible journey between the two places in the company's name.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Donw said:

 

Some glaciation yes but  the Steep sided drowned valleys to be found in Devon and Cornwall are noted for not being due to Glaciers or has that view been revised (much of what I was taught seem to have been revised since !).

 

At present pages are being added faster than I am progressing I may never catch up.

 

Regarding the expansion of the WNR it seems odd to me that it should reach Norwich but lack a good route right into Kings Lynn. This could be down to traffic flows   but Railways that never got to the places intended were not unkown. The Manchester and Milford being a grand example. One could never imagine using any part of it's metals for a sensible journey between the two places in the company's name.

 

Don

 

Thanks.

 

Well it does reach Lynn only via a W&U-style tramway - so would that fit your thoughts there Don?

[Dave Hunt]

20 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I simply detest snobbery in all its forms, and believe it to be alive and well among self-styled finescale modellers.  Many have their funny little prejudices, I find - If I had an overbridge on my layout, I'd park a 'bus on it, just to annoy them - but it's in the sin of overweening pride that they sometimes truly offend.

 

The inclusion of the 'train set' comment seemed a 'just can't help himself' remark, betraying a less than inclusive attitude......

 

As a finescale modeller (in my case S7) I detest inverted snobbery in all its forms and the sin of dismissal of anything other than the commentator's own standards accompanied by caustic remarks such as 'overweening pride' truly to offend. Such remarks seem to betray a less than inclusive attitude.

 

I have no wish to start an argument and to that end will not reply further to any posts on this topic but as someone who has also modelled to N, OO and OF standards I find comments such as the above tiresome and totally unjustified for the overwhelming majority of finescale modellers. And for the record, I admire a great deal of OO layouts and models.

 

Dave

[Edwardian]

I admire a lot of finescale layouts in the stricter gauges, too, and do not disdain their standards. I think the general hobby has improved its standards in large part due to the cutting edge modelling of finescale modellers that has a beneficial trickle-down influence.

 

Where I believe I have erred is to have generalised too indiscriminately.  The attitude to which I object is certainly exhibited by some (generalisations often have a basis, after all), and I don't see why examples of this attitude should not be called-out, but I failed consider all those fine modellers who wear their achievements lightly and do not exhibit such egregious snobbery, and I'm sorry for that.  

 

Whether you meant it or not, yours in a shabby, though common enough, trick that plagues internet platforms; take a criticism of negative, non-inclusive attitudes and turn the point on its head, assuming offence. Lo and behold, suddenly I am the aggressor, you are the victim. Nonsense, of course, and I might add that passively-aggressively to imply that I am some sort of crude-scale yahoo dismissing such fine standards would be to betray an ignorance of me and of this topic.  But, then, yours is a passing shot. If you are not a finescale snob who possesses an inherent disdain for lower standards, my remark was clearly not directed at you and you have no reason to come here and assume victimhood.  If, on the other hand, there is some recognition on your part of a certain attitude of superiority ... well, you need to hear how that can come across.

 

Thank you for coming onto my layout topic simply in order to argue the point. I could say that I have spoken as I have often found, and that is sufficient, but, as I had no wish to tar "the overwhelming majority of finescale modellers" (lest, indeed, they should overwhelm me), I will at least make it clear that I do not assume snobbery to be universal in finescale circles, I have seen enough to know that it is not, despite your attempts to paint me as anti-finescale. 

 

I found your post tiresome, but have now done you the courtesy of responding to it. Please don't come again. .  

 

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

James, don't feed the troll.

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

James, don't feed the troll.

 

Fair enough, Red.

 

The mistake I always make is to assume that trolls respond to rational debate.  And, of course, I never can make a point briefly!

 

On reflection "F- off back to Shropshire" might have more succinct.  

[Northroader]

 

[Hroth]

23 minutes ago, Northroader said:

 

 

Baggsie the one with sequins!

 

41 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

James, don't feed the troll.

 

We could do with some "scale" cast iron bridge plates with that on!

 

 

Something like this....

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Hroth
added embellishment.

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

There may be something of a self-created image problem here.  Funnily enough, I have never detected similar snobbery emanating from the 2FS culture, or S scale modellers (who must be more eccentrics than fantatics, surely?). 

That’s because when you have to make it for yourself or go without, you are prepared to take a few shortcuts and keep your head down in case anyone notices...

 

In S, particularly, we are well aware of the importance of what we do in terms of the wider world: none at all. It’s just what we do as individuals when we have time to ourselves: others do different things (including running around on muddy fields in the rain, chasing after an inflated piece of plastic) with their free time. 

 

If you don’t mind the observation, I think your original remark was a little too black and white (an error I am prone to making myself). There are some P4 modellers who have disappeared up their own backsides in a f@rtcloud of smugness, yes, and a few in S7, too, and whilst these do seem to be the two standards which contain most of this sort of attitude, it isn’t true of the best proponents, nor indeed of the vast majority of them. If you had qualified your assertion by simply saying “some P4 modellers” or “the worst kind of finescale snobbery”, then you would still have been wrong about the seller, but not rude about the majority of finescale modellers.

[ianathompson]

7 minutes ago, Regularity said:

others do different things (including running around on muddy fields in the rain, chasing after an inflated piece of plastic) with their free time. 

 

 

I always preferred to do this when I was young enough. Now i just have to watch.

Not much room for arrogance either that a few well aimed studs can't sort out!

Ian T

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, Regularity said:

That’s because when you have to make it for yourself or go without, you are prepared to take a few shortcuts and keep your head down in case anyone notices...

 

In S, particularly, we are well aware of the importance of what we do in terms of the wider world: none at all. It’s just what we do as individuals when we have time to ourselves: others do different things (including running around on muddy fields in the rain, chasing after an inflated piece of plastic) with their free time. 

 

Indeed, and my comments about S reflect my esteem for the scale and its practitioners, as you no doubt knew.

 

4 minutes ago, Regularity said:

If you don’t mind the observation, I think your original remark was a little too black and white (an error I am prone to making myself). There are some P4 modellers who have disappeared up their own backsides in a f@rtcloud of smugness, yes, and a few in S7, too, and whilst these do seem to be the two standards which contain most of this sort of attitude, it isn’t true of the best proponents, nor indeed of the vast majority of them. If you had qualified your assertion by simply saying “some P4 modellers” or “the worst kind of finescale snobbery”, then you would still have been wrong about the seller, but not rude about the majority of finescale modellers.

 

Indeed, a fair observation, which is why I added

 

Where I believe I have erred is to have generalised too indiscriminately.  The attitude to which I object is certainly exhibited by some (generalisations often have a basis, after all), and I don't see why examples of this attitude should not be called-out, but I failed consider all those fine modellers who wear their achievements lightly and do not exhibit such egregious snobbery, and I'm sorry for that.

 

What I don't need is some stranger, who has never before been @rsed about this topic, to have the bad manners to stick his S7 scale oar in, impose his views and misrepresent my position. Git. 

[Regularity]

The risk with generalisations is that a stereotype, which is often erroneous, becomes an archetype.

[Edwardian]

 

52 minutes ago, Regularity said:

The risk with generalisations is that a stereotype, which is often erroneous, becomes an archetype.

 

The problem with stereotypes is the disappointing way sometimes people seem to want to queue up to conform to them.

 

An Archetype, on the other hand, is an elder of the primitive church.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Last night, I found myself alone on a street in a town.

 

It was a short street. A quiet street. It was a street that nobody seemed to visit for its own sake.  It was a street that existed to take you from the road you found yourself on to another that you wanted to be on.  The steady night traffic of a thoroughfare crossed the end of the vista. The street was quiet and still.

 

It was an anonymous street. Aloof, almost. And you would not stop do do anything there; there was nothing to do. It was a street from which even the buildings were withdrawn.  It featured only the sides of buildings, not their fronts. As I entered there was the side of a day-care nursery to my left and the side of a factory to my right. Both quiet and unlit at this hour. After the factory came the blind gabled ends of terraced rows and the roads and cobbled alley between.  To the left higher ground, separated by a high stone wall, which shielded some overgrown Victorian industrial landscape from the road, and, towards the further end, a tall stone early Victorian house; graceful, quiet, and distanced from the pavement by a bank of shrubbery; with no door and but two windows at ground floor, set above head height, offering no intimacy with the street.

 

Then I saw what I had been looking for. Between the tall stone house and the tall stone wall, masked by tree and shrub growth spilling over the wall and down by the pavement, forming a green, sheltering bastion, was a door.  A plain. planked wooden door.

 

I had a sudden urge to run up to it, bang loudly, utter improbable passwords and enquire if, indeed, this was where the Elucidated Brethren of the Ebon Night met of an evening?  Instead, as a silver haired old gentleman had just appeared, I followed him to the door, introduced myself, and was taken inside  ....   

 

[Northroader]

Starting a cakebox entry, then?

[Hroth]

Here be dragns...