Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

The Victorian Railway often went much further....

 

From wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_Royal_Train

 

Now thats what I call a well pimped ride!

 

 

56 minutes ago, runs as required said:

just realised the above is Victorian in the geographic not the temporal sense. Is it Edwardian - and for whom?

dh

 

Thus, we pass from armoured trains to armigious trains.

 

The Prince of Wales feathers are, I feel, the clue here.

 

Though it may have been a faux pas to include them.

 

Prince Alfred visited Australia in 1867. Whereupon he was shot. But he wasn't the PoW and clearly the train is of a later period. I seem to recall that the PoW was visiting India at the time. 

 

This makes the best candidate Prince George (later King George V) in 1901.

 

Follow the Wiki link Mr Hroth posted below the picture, you will, indeed, see the picture captioned with the year 1901.  However, the text says: 

 

May 1901 - The first complete Royal train was assembled from special purpose vehicles for the visit of the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and York (later King George V and Queen Mary). The Royal train travelled to Healesville and other parts of Victoria, and finally to Port Melbourne, where they embarked for the sea voyage to Brisbane

 

I pause here to remark that Healesville is surely an inspired choice of place name.

 

So, the train is Victorian in only the geographical sense, the Queen-Empress having passed away on 22 January 1901. Victorian Railways was, I note, built to the Irish broad gauge of 5'3". 

 

But, why the Prince of Wales feathers? 

 

Or, rather, why is the future George V referred to as the Duke of York?  Surely, following the death of the Queen he becomes Prince of Wales because his father becomes Edward VII?  Well, yes, but not immediately.

 

Wiki's entry on George V provides the necessary chronology:

 

On the death of Queen Victoria on 22 January 1901, George's father ascended the throne as King Edward VII. George inherited the title of Duke of Cornwall, and for much of the rest of that year, he was known as the Duke of Cornwall and York.

 

In 1901, George and Mary toured the British Empire. Their tour included Gibraltar, Malta, Port Said, Aden, Ceylon, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Mauritius, South Africa, Canada, and the Colony of Newfoundland.

 

...  In Australia, the Duke opened the first session of the Australian Parliament upon the creation of the Commonwealth of Australia [the Royal Train was noted as going to Melbourne and the Prince opened Parliament on 9 May 1901].

 

... On 9 November 1901, George was created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester.

 

So there we have it.  But why the PoW's feathers on the train in May? 

 

The train decorators were a full 6 months premature. Surely a breach of Royal protocol?

 

I don't think George was still in Australia when he became PoW.  I believe that he was invested by the King, his father, upon his return, having been to New Zealand, South Africa and Canada in the meanwhile. 

 

Prince Edward, Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII) visited Australia in 1920, so the other possibility, I suppose, is that the photograph captioned "1901" is in fact of the 1920 Royal Train?

 

Well, I would assume that a Royal Train working would be given to a relatively new and powerful class. In 1901 that would surely be the AA Class of 1900?  I assume, therefore, that the caption is correct in stating that this was the Royal Train in 1901.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Edwardian
spelling!

[wagonman]

It does look rather as if they threw every heraldic device they had at the loco just in case. But these things were always OTT anyway. I could imagine the Ozzies not being too concerned about the niceties of royal protocol.

[Edwardian]

As you know, I indulge in "self-presenting" when anniversaries roll round. This year, a rather depressing round number, I have been rather generous with myself.   I have indulged in pre-orders of the Rails Terriers, but for West Norfolk it's been a 3D-Print Fest: 

 

From the good Dr Newman of this parish: 0-4-2 Todd, Kitson & Laird of 1838, aqcuired second-hand in 1859, withdrawn in 1874 and stored. Used as a stationary engine at Aching Constable in 1885, but placed in working order and sold to the Norfolk Minerals Railway in 1895:

 

 

From Knuckles of this parish: 2-4-0 Sharp Stewart standard passenger class:

 

 

From Knuckles of this parish: 0-6-0 Sharp Stewart standard goods class:

 

 

For the Sharp Stewarts, visits to Alan Gibson, London Road Models and High Level Kits at York provided the means to complete.  If it all works, I'll repeat the process next year until I have 5 or 6 of each!

 

This is a way to get what I want - distinctive and appropriate motive power for the WNR - but it's a significant investment, just as a kit in a more traditional medium would be.  I reckon that the resin pieces and the means to motorise them work out at approximately £175 per locomotive.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jwealleans]

That's not out of the range for a kit built locomotive of any material.  The prints look encouragingly free of striations.

 

Did I sell you your ticket at York on Monday?  I was on autopilot and by the time I realised I was looking at a familiar face, you'd gone.

[TurboSnail]

Doing some quick maths, I think my printed F class has cost me £105 so far (excluding paint and transfers). But I did get it about a year ago when 3Dhubs were a fair bit cheaper. Most of the cost went on wheels, which is of course the same no matter what media the rest of the kit is in.

[Edwardian]

22 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

That's not out of the range for a kit built locomotive of any material.  The prints look encouragingly free of striations.

 

Did I sell you your ticket at York on Monday?  I was on autopilot and by the time I realised I was looking at a familiar face, you'd gone.

 

Possibly, I paid a return visit on the Monday. 

[Caley Jim]

22 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

You didn't type "late in the evening", you typed "museum of arm transport".

But I didn't put 'late in the evening' in quotes, therefore I was identifying the time of day at which I had been typing!  

 

(and yes, I know I put it in quotes this time, before any s***t a**e points that out!)  

 

Jim

[Nearholmer]

Those engines raising themselves from the ooze look to have great potential. This, presumably, is how engines evolved, emerging from the swamps, and eventually developing flanged wheels in place of flippers.

 

On another point, I feel that the parishioners might enjoy this description of the soft furnishings of a 2ft gauge steam railcar, built for The Maharajah of Gwalior, by KS in 1905.

 

"..... each window is fitted with purple-tinted glass and Venetian shutters, and in addition handsome brocaded silk curtains of green and gold have been supplied....... the interior, which is divided into two saloons, has been sumptuously decorated and upholstered by Messrs Liberty & Co..."

 

From The Locomotive Magazine, reproduced with drawings and photos in NG&IRMR Nr.118.

 

A stately pleasure dome on rails, it is actually a bit like a holiday narrow boat, a sort of self-contained cruising vessel. 

 

The Maharajah had a really splendid name, so clearly needed a splendid railcar: Lieutenant-General H.H. Ali Jah, Umdat ul-Umara, Hisam us-Sultanat, Mukhtar ul-Mulk, Azim ul-Iqtidar, Rafi-us-Shan, Wala Shikoh, Muhtasham-i-Dauran, Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Shrimant Sir Madho Rao Scindia Bahadur, Shrinath, Mansur-i-Zaman, Fidvi-i-Hazrat-i-Malika-i-Mua’zzama-i-Rafi-ud-Darja-i-Inglistan, Maharaja Scindia of Gwalior.

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The Maharajah had a really splendid name, so clearly needed a splendid railcar: Lieutenant-General H.H. Ali Jah, Umdat ul-Umara, Hisam us-Sultanat, Mukhtar ul-Mulk, Azim ul-Iqtidar, Rafi-us-Shan, Wala Shikoh, Muhtasham-i-Dauran, Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Shrimant Sir Madho Rao Scindia Bahadur, Shrinath, Mansur-i-Zaman, Fidvi-i-Hazrat-i-Malika-i-Mua’zzama-i-Rafi-ud-Darja-i-Inglistan, Maharaja Scindia of Gwalior.

 

 

Are you sure that's not his guest list?

[Nearholmer]

This long-named Maharajah would probably have been an RMWeb member if he was alive toady. Have a read of this https://www.facebook.com/notes/madhya-pradesh-tourism/the-story-of-the-gwalior-light-railway/309316045802101/

 

His title omits his decorations, one of which was 'CIE', which I thought was the state railway of Eire, but there we are.

 

His wife's name was almost as long as his. Announcing them at a ball must have taken a few minutes.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

43 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

On another point, I feel that the parishioners might enjoy this description of the soft furnishings of a 2ft gauge steam railcar, built for The Maharajah of Gwalior, by KS in 1905.

 

"..... each window is fitted with purple-tinted glass and Venetian shutters, and in addition handsome brocaded silk curtains of green and gold have been supplied....... the interior, which is divided into two saloons, has been sumptuously decorated and upholstered by Messrs Liberty & Co..."

 

From The Locomotive Magazine, reproduced with drawings and photos in NG&IRMR Nr.118.

 

A stately pleasure dome on rails, it is actually a bit like a holiday narrow boat, a sort of self-contained cruising vessel. 

 

Sounds marvellous, sort of First Class Double Plus Good transport.  I don't see it catching on!

 

Most "holiday narrowboats" I've seen have more basic, hardwearing arrangements, even when privately owned.  I should expect brocaded silk curtains and furnishings by Liberty & Co would return completely wrecked after a couple of weeks cruising....

[Compound2632]

CIE = Commission internationale de l'éclairage. 

[St Enodoc]

55 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Those engines raising themselves from the ooze look to have great potential. This, presumably, is how engines evolved, emerging from the swamps, and eventually developing flanged wheels in place of flippers.

 

On another point, I feel that the parishioners might enjoy this description of the soft furnishings of a 2ft gauge steam railcar, built for The Maharajah of Gwalior, by KS in 1905.

 

"..... each window is fitted with purple-tinted glass and Venetian shutters, and in addition handsome brocaded silk curtains of green and gold have been supplied....... the interior, which is divided into two saloons, has been sumptuously decorated and upholstered by Messrs Liberty & Co..."

 

From The Locomotive Magazine, reproduced with drawings and photos in NG&IRMR Nr.118.

 

A stately pleasure dome on rails, it is actually a bit like a holiday narrow boat, a sort of self-contained cruising vessel. 

 

The Maharajah had a really splendid name, so clearly needed a splendid railcar: Lieutenant-General H.H. Ali Jah, Umdat ul-Umara, Hisam us-Sultanat, Mukhtar ul-Mulk, Azim ul-Iqtidar, Rafi-us-Shan, Wala Shikoh, Muhtasham-i-Dauran, Maharajadhiraj Maharaja Shrimant Sir Madho Rao Scindia Bahadur, Shrinath, Mansur-i-Zaman, Fidvi-i-Hazrat-i-Malika-i-Mua’zzama-i-Rafi-ud-Darja-i-Inglistan, Maharaja Scindia of Gwalior.

 

A steam railcar? He'd need a ten-coach train to fit all that on the side.

[St Enodoc]

34 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

This long-named Maharajah would probably have been an RMWeb member if he was alive toady. Have a read of this https://www.facebook.com/notes/madhya-pradesh-tourism/the-story-of-the-gwalior-light-railway/309316045802101/

 

His title omits his decorations, one of which was 'CIE', which I thought was the state railway of Eire, but there we are.

 

His wife's name was almost as long as his. Announcing them at a ball must have taken a few minutes.

There's an ISIHAC gag there struggling to get out but I can't quite make it work at the moment.

[St Enodoc]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

CIE = Commission internationale de l'éclairage. 

Mmm, I do like a nice éclair.

[Nearholmer]

It only has ‘MS’ in fancy script on the side, Maharajah Scindia, presumably due to consternation among the signwriters at the works.

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

It only has ‘MS’ in fancy script on the side, Maharajah Scindia, presumably due to consternation among the signwriters at the works.

 

Indeed. Would put HB&WRJR&DCo. in the shade.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

20 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

The Victorian Railway often went much further....

 

From wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_Royal_Train

 

Now thats what I call a well pimped ride!

 

 

 

In the wikipedia article attached to Hroth's post is a reference to the 1954 visit of the Queen and Prince Phillip to Victoria. The entry for Monday March 1, 1954 mentions the royal couple's visit to Crib Point (a naval base at the entrance to Western Port Bay). At that time I lived in a street that ran down to the suburban network line on which the royal train made that trip, the line was electrified to Frankston but as the line from there to Crib Point wasn't, the royal train was hauled by a steam locomotive. So I remember seeing the train as it passed through. Prince Phillip was standing on the observation platform of the rear carriage waving to us devoted subjects and I am led to believe that my comment to my mother was "Why is he washing the window?".

 

The use of steam on that line continued for another few years until VR introduced diesels and there was nothing like the sight of a big steam loco flying along at dusk on Fridays bringing the shore leave sailors from Crib Point up to Melbourne for the weekend. Steam and sparks flying and the wonderful sound.        

Edited May 23, 2019 by Malcolm 0-6-0
Sheer cackhandedness

[Nearholmer]

It only has ‘MS’ in fancy script on the side, Maharajah Scindia, presumably due to consternation among the signwriters at the works.

[corneliuslundie]

"

Those engines raising themselves from the ooze look to have great potential. This, presumably, is how engines evolved, emerging from the swamps, and eventually developing flanged wheels in place of flippers."

I laughed out loud - superb. My wife also loved it.

And of course CIE is Commission International d'Eclairage - i used to go to their conferences when working. Broad minded but perhaps not broad gauge.

Yes, the Duke of Cornwall title is hereditary bu the Prince of Wales has to be awarded by the monarch. Hence Prince Charles didn't get it at birth but only when considerably older - we had the LP of the Cymanfa Ganu he attended afterwards.

Back to those Knuckles prints. Are they the same as the initial Mid Wales Railway locos? I am looking for decent drawings of them for a book the WRRC is preparing.

Jonathan

[Hroth]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

There's an ISIHAC gag there struggling to get out but I can't quite make it work at the moment.

 

I pity their son/daughter....

 

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Mmm, I do like a nice éclair.

 

I'll have a box of four large ones, please!

[Anotheran]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

It only has ‘MS’ in fancy script on the side, Maharajah Scindia, presumably due to consternation among the signwriters at the works.

Ah, so the purple glazing made up purple MS Windows...

[Northroader]

That person also had a Railway on his dining table, pulled by a suitable WNR loco in silver. What it is to be a train nut, but with money??

https://www.livehistoryindia.com/forgotten-treasures/2017/04/26/gwalior-silver-train

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NDU3bbBraXg

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Northroader

[Edwardian]

54 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

 

Back to those Knuckles prints. Are they the same as the initial Mid Wales Railway locos? I am looking for decent drawings of them for a book the WRRC is preparing.

Jonathan

 

The detail combinations I have adopted for the WNR essentially resemble the Furness Railway versions (F1 and D1 Classes). 

 

Knuckles does produce Cambrian versions: Small Passenger Class and Small Goods Class.

 

As Knuckles is a Furness Railway fan, I would guess that the Furness versions were probably his starting point, but I'm sure he would respond to a PM concerning any drawings he has unearthed.   

 

I small attempt to chart my fumbling progress.  I should think these models should also be of interest to our esteemed ChrisN.  

[RedGemAlchemist]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

I'll have a box of four large ones, please!

As will I!

 

29 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

The detail combinations I have adopted for the WNR essentially resemble the Furness Railway versions (F1 and D1 Classes). 

 

Knuckles does produce Cambrian versions: Small Passenger Class and Small Goods Class.

 

As Knuckles is a Furness Railway fan, I would guess that the Furness versions were probably his starting point, but I'm sure he would respond to a PM concerning any drawings he has unearthed.   

 

I small attempt to chart my fumbling progress.  I should think these models should also be of interest to our esteemed ChrisN.  

Good luck James.