Castle Aching

[Metropolitan H]

Siemens?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Metropolitan H said:

Siemens?

 

Wasn't the electrical equipment for the Tyneside scheme by BTH? The Shildon-Newport scheme used Siemens equipment.

[Nearholmer]

"Was there any more connection than a visual one between the NER/ Darlington works / Merz & McLellan / Siemans / Harton colliery?"

 

Early electrical trivial pursuits, eh?

 

A couple of possible answers:

 

- Cragside (NT again!), which is where Armstrong bought together the wonders of the new electrical age, and thereby inspired the strong interest in the technology in the NE; or,

 

- Merz designed the second Newcastle generating station and electrical distribution system (first three-phase system in Britain), which fed the NER electric trains, via substations that were, uniquely for a UK railway, owned not by the railway, but by the electricity authority; which gave Sir Vincent Raven a head start on electrical matters, including building some nice 1500V locos at Darlington works, including those to haul coal trains, these having Siemens electrical kit, following the example at Harton, which takes us back to Siemens.

 

Do either of those work?

 

BTW, have you see a book called "Networks of Power"? It's probably the best 'history of technology' book around, because it traces the complex links, through money and people, within the electrical industry on both sides of the Atlantic either side of the turn of the century. 

 

[I could sneak O'Doolite in here too, by way of the Parsons turbine, which was first applied to large scale generation in the first Newcastle power station]

 

PS: Yes, the initial NER rolling stock had BTH (=GE) electrical systems, not Siemens, which is why the two Bo-Bo locos were standard GE products, virtually identical with those used in the US, and in Paris, and in Italy, among, I think, other places that GE tentacles reached. By the early 1900s, Siemens were actually "on the ropes" I Britain as regards traction contracts, which is probably why they made such a big thing of Harton. American capital and factories, Westinghouse Electric in Manchester, and BTH (=GE) in Rugby, were consolidating their position, and, certainly in the case of Westinghouse (Mersey Railway) effectively buying their way into the market.

 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

As a PPS, possibly the greatest beard, and that against very stiff competition, among the electrical pioneers belonged to Sir Joseph Swan, of Sunderland. One of many people who proved ‘prior art’ in a patent tussle with Edison.

 

Is he contemplating dielectrical materialism? Only Marxist engineers will know.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Annie]

7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Perhaps a phrase for this phenomenon should be "beige-tinted spectacles"

The 1970's were a terrible time.  All record of the 1970s should be struck from history.  People found to be Googling the 1970s or enquiring after anything to do with that unfortunate decade should be brought in for questioning by the authorities.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

10 hours ago, Donw said:

LOTR is just a book you don't have to like it  or even bother to read it that is a choice. However what sounds like a rant against those who do like the book makes me wonder what issues makes someone so upset at what others do. So far as I know  it hasn't influenced readers to tample over the rights of others. Personally I enjoyed it.  At the time I first read it I was also listening to Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets Album.  Set the Controls to the Heart of the Sun made a wonderful backing to the recital of the Dwarf Epic in Moria.

 

Don

 

As someone else has previously drawn attention to LoTR is a bit like Wagner's operas. While there are some memorable bits it could have benefited from ruthless editing. To us who were working adults in the 70s its relevance to our then lifestyles was somewhat irrelevant. It was something occurring in the world of late teenagers rather than ours.

 

I don't think the later film series helped it much because what was already a bloated work was inflated even more without actually offering any improvement.  Mind you it probably did wonders for the Kiwi economy and their local film production facilities. Like the more recent Harry Potter series it became an industry rather than simply a fantasy novel and when that happens the fantasy takes second place to the reality of making money. Fantasy is all good harmless fun (e.g. model trains) but like other culturally accepted fantasies e.g. religion, the effect becomes rather tedious when people begin to take it more seriously than it warrants. But then compared with the ongoing chaos that religion has created for human society LoTR is far more preferable despite the need for editing.  But then who am I to criticise - I like reading 18th and 19th century novels and they were written in a time when the more words used the more the author was paid. By modern standards three quarters of Trollope's works could have either been savagely pruned or not survived the first draft but his reputation would have been ensured by the Barchester Chronicles, the Palliser series or The Way we Live Now.  

 

Annie's comment about the 70s was interesting. Personally I found them to be a mixed bag. For me they started out rather ordinary verging on depressing as my then job became less and less attractive. In the middle years I started a restructuring of my career aspirations which then led to a complete sea change and a whole new more satisfying life, and by the time the 80s dawned the beginning of the previous decade was but a distant and happily long gone experience. Per ardua ad astra as the RAF might say.

 

Oh and I built my first layout     which of course was never quite finished as is standard operating procedure, while for the last six years or so I've been fiddling away with my current one, when work allows.     

[Compound2632]

Chacun son goût - or, as my Irish grandfather used to say: each to his own gout.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

18 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Malcolm

None of this is new news, think of where David Bowie took things as an instance, so what I’m curious about is why you are particularly surprised or offended by one small subset of all this, the subset relating to gender definition.

 

Kevin

 

I wasn't offended, why on Earth would I be? If some self-seeking celeb sees a chance to enrich themselves by adopting some cause then, as you say, it is simply par for the course (pardon the pun) and is something everyone with both feet planted firmly on the ground will simply recognise as such. I was commented on the matter because it, like LoTR and the behaviour of the more committed fans back when it first appeared, is the type of subject that is worthy of satire as several posts have demonstrated. It is an example of something that, if you examine the issue closely, is so nakedly aimed at self publicity that it demands satire. And satire only fails when it fails to enrage the extremes at both ends of the debate. We chuckle at those now ancient Monty Python sketches  or Tom Lehrer's songs because they mercilessly skewer delicate sensitivities, but in 2019 how much of that freewheeling spirit would go unchallenged if we first vet something to make sure that someone won't be offended? I've not led a sheltered life and quickly discovered that if I didn't want my delicate sensitivities hurt then I shouldn't trail them around where they'd get stepped on. And sometimes satire is so prescient that it becomes timeless as Banksy's painting Devolved Parliament although painted in 2009 has become uncannily relevant to 2019.

 

In any case in these times the issue is something that is neither impossible to resolve nor one that shouldn't be resolved - that's up to the individual. Making it a matter of public debate as this celeb has done is the surest way of it becoming controversial when it doesn't need to be as it is a simple private decision which can be resolved without any legislative requirement. The search for public notoriety is just a symptom of the behaviour pioneered by people like the Kardashians which can lead to a whole line of philosophical enquiry along the lines of "if a Kardashian falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" or like the classic problem in quantum physics of Schrödinger's Kardashian. So if the controversy rebounds upon its creator then that is also par for the course.      

[TT-Pete]

17 hours ago, Donw said:

 Personally I enjoyed it.  At the time I first read it I was also listening to Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets Album.  Set the Controls to the Heart of the Sun made a wonderful backing to the recital of the Dwarf Epic in Moria.

 

Don

 

Back in my student days together with a good friend one evening we were watching the animated Lord of the Rings film with the sound off and Peter Frampton "Do you feel like we do?" playing on the stereo (obviously :^) ). There was this one moment where Gandalf's actions and lip movements on the screen synched perfectly with "Do you, you, feel like I do?" 

Wow. Minds. Blown.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Skewering the delicate sensitivities of the establishment (= the powerful), or of large blocks of people, or of people who ‘set themselves above’ (althoiugh such people don’t ususally have much sensitivity) is satire.

 

Skewering the delicate sensitivities of the un-powerful is bullying.

 

That, I would suggest, is why it’s sometimes worth internally vetting one’s thoughts before turning them into words.

 

Kevin 

 

PS: Kardashians and the like ....... ignore ‘em.

 

 

[TT-Pete]

46 minutes ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 "if a Kardashian falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

 

LOL. Just LOL. :^)

[Edwardian]

56 minutes ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

"if a Kardashian falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" 

 

"Wouldn't you like to know"

 

[Hando]

58 minutes ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

"if a Kardashian falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

 

I have the answer:

1. One falls over

2. Another takes a picture and puts it on social media

3. The Tabloids then completely awash the MSN news page with articles which have even fewer words and even more adverts.

[Edwardian]

As Parishioners may recall, it has been a long-term plan to field one of the ex-Cornwall Minerals Sharp Stewart 0-6-0Ts in the Tank + tender form supplied to the Lynn & Fakenham.

 

That the Midland Railway did something similar is quite new to me!

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Explain!

 

Thst just looks like an eBay photo from someone who doesn’t really understand what they are trying to flog.

[Oldddudders]

On 03/10/2019 at 22:54, Northroader said:

The NT also have the George in Borough High Street, another nice port of call:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_George_Inn,_Southwark

In the early '90s this was a regular evening meeting place - dinner in an upstairs function room - since my boss found it too difficult to get the team (about a dozen direct reports) together during office hours. He would leave about 20.30, to catch the "Paddy Mail" from Euston to his home in Rugby. I would linger a little, wandering up to London Bridge to pick up the 21.03 Charing Cross to Ashford. Home about 22.30 and up again at 6. 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, TT-Pete said:

 

Back in my student days together with a good friend one evening we were watching the animated Lord of the Rings film with the sound off and Peter Frampton "Do you feel like we do?" playing on the stereo

 

Good lord....

 

Haven't heard 14 minutes of outrageous mid 70s guitar noodling for ages, then to cap it all, 6 minutes of guitar noodling through the plastic pipe in the middle.  Woah!

 

 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Explain!

 

Thst just looks like an eBay photo from someone who doesn’t really understand what they are trying to flog.

 

Indeed. I thought it might amuse, or possibly just dismay, our Compound. 

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Skewering the delicate sensitivities of the establishment (= the powerful), or of large blocks of people, or of people who ‘set themselves above’ (althoiugh such people don’t ususally have much sensitivity) is satire.

 

Skewering the delicate sensitivities of the un-powerful is bullying.

 

That, I would suggest, is why it’s sometimes worth internally vetting one’s thoughts before turning them into words.

 

Kevin 

 

PS: Kardashians and the like ....... ignore ‘em.

 

 

 

 

But then if you cannot be satirical about the weak and the helpless where has the essence of democracy gone.  After all most of what we find funny about Monty Python is directed at very ordinary people.

 

It's a two way street, satire should encompass both ends of the spectrum. Otherwise someone or other is going to complain they've been left out and therefore are considered unworthy of notice. And then they'll demand that their unworthiness is something that is their right and should be celebrated as such and subject to satire just as are the rich and powerful etc. ..... well you can see what will happen. Then the rich and powerful will demand that they must be treated like the poor and helpless and not be made the subject of satire and then what will we chuckle at.  Leading us in the end to the question "if an person unworthy of satire falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" or even worse "if satire dies in a forest and no one is notice it, will anyone mourn".      

[runs as required]

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

As Parishioners may recall, it has been a long-term plan to field one of the ex-Cornwall Minerals Sharp Stewart 0-6-0Ts in the Tank + tender form supplied to the Lynn & Fakenham.

That the Midland Railway did something similar is quite new to me!

Might it have been an Derby 'low cost' motive power proposition submitted to Lord Erstwhile for the Imperialist 3' 6" Cape to Cairo gauge Project Review in the Drill Hall held in the spring of 1903 ?

dh

 

Edit

I think I'm definitely right: the outcome of that 1903 CA 'C2C' Drill Hall Review can be seen here on the 3' 6" gauge. It was just a wee bit too late

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by runs as required

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Explain!

 

Thst just looks like an eBay photo from someone who doesn’t really understand what they are trying to flog.

 

You may think that. We couldn't possibly comment...

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Indeed. I thought it might amuse, or possibly just dismay, our Compound. 

 

Both! Definitely not a decoration sample of the forthcoming Bachmann model (I trust...)

 

The 0-4-4T looks quite nicely built, though that looks more like a Deeley than a Johnson chimney. The number, 1357, is the post-1907 number of an 1892 Dübs-built example of the 1823 Class (1532 Class but with 150 psi rather than 140 psi boiler pressure, so nominally a tad more powerful). The front splasher, with beading on the splasherette* to clear the coupling rod crank, indicates that the engine is actually a member of the 1252 Class, built by Neilsons in 1875/6. This class had 5'6" drivers, all the rest had 5'3". At this early stage in his Midland career, Johnson was experimenting a bit to get the optimum 0-4-4T - the subtle differences between his Great Eastern 134 Class 0-4-4Ts of 1872/3, the Midland 6 and 1252 Classes, and the S&DJR 'Avonside' 0-4-4Ts makes an interesting study. The 30 engines of the 1252 Class were originally numbered 1252-1281, becoming 1236-1235 in 1907.

 

The livery is a bit of a mash-up. The number should certainly be in cut-out brass figures (Slaters do an etch of these) not transfers. I'm not sure what the splodge on the bunker side is supposed to be. Originally this would have been Neilsons' works plate but by the 20th century these had often been replaced by a Derby "rebuilt" plate - possibly on first change of boiler. The beading on the splasherette would not be polished brass, neither would the crown of the dome. The polished smokebox door hinge isn't usual. If the engine is supposed to be in pre-Deeley livery, as the lined-out boiler bands suggest, then frames and wheels should be red and lined. The lining yellow is too pale, almost white.

 

*Not an authentic Derby LDO term. What are they called?

 

The tender's had a bit of a hard time - it evidently once had coal rails.

[TT-Pete]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Thst just looks like an eBay photo from someone who doesn’t really understand what they are trying to flog.

 

Like when you see a loco and tender in two separate listings with the tender being described as a "train wagon"

[Compound2632]

BTW neither this model nor the Bachmann one can be used to represent one of the engines loaned to the M&GN in 1906-1912 in exchange for four Lynn & Fakenham 4-4-0Ts, as those were members of the 6 Class, Nos. 142, 143, and 144.

[Buhar]

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

*Not an authentic Derby LDO term. What are they called?

In analysis of Scottish locos where they are quite common they're called coupling rod splashers.  However, splasherette should be henceforth adopted.

 

Alan