Castle Aching

[Annie]

 

 

I find it slightly disturbing that someone had no qualms about numbering an engine No.666, - and here it is off the rails.

 

8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Who's having a conference in Overstrand in 1909-10?

 

I don't think we've featured Anarcho-syndicalists yet; perhaps them?!?

Sounds very suspicious to me as well.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Annie
fumble brain

[Northroader]

650-59   M15 1884

660-79   E16. 1884-6

790-99   O18  1886-7

140-49.  P55.  1903

781-90   D58.  1904

91-100.  R58.  1905

101-10.  C59.  1905-6

780,236-44 I60 1906

572-81. A62.  1907

582-91. D63. 1907

211-20  G63.  1907

111,221-5/32-5. H63. 1907

170-79. S64.  1908

180-89. A65. 1908-09

71-80.  I65.   1909

(there were two 790s, first one became 800)

 

 

(I’ve had me breakfast)

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Northroader

[sem34090]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

To be fair, they look pretty similar above the footplate!

Similar enough to use a Hornby  Y14 Loco body and tender as a starting point, with a new chassis?

[Nearholmer]

That picture of a T26 looks highly implausible ...... is it meant to show Bressingham, or some such preservation location?

 

The Conference Train to Overstrand? Overstrand is, with due deference to its denizens, a true nowheresville, yet it had quite a substantial station, which mystified me a bit when I found out.

 

Surely some sort of religious conference, and the loco has been repulsed by the piety of the passengers, hence the derailment.

[Edwardian]

3 minutes ago, Northroader said:

650-59   M15 1884

660-79   E16. 1884-6

790-99   O18  1886-7

140-49.  P55.  1903

781-90   D58.  1904

91-100.  R58.  1905

101-10.  C59.  1905-6

780,236-44 I60 1906

572-81. A62.  1907

582-91. D63. 1907

211-20  G63.  1907

111,221-5/32-5. H63. 1907

170-79. S64.  1908

180-89. A65. 1908-09

71-80.  I65.   1909

(there were two 790s, first one became 800)

 

 

 

 

Yes, the GER class designations are taken from that of the first Lot built to that design.  Hence M15 is both the class designation and the order no. for the initial batch.

[Edwardian]

4 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

Similar enough to use a Hornby  Y14 Loco body and tender as a starting point, with a new chassis?

 

I had hoped so. IIRC, the coupled wheel centres are the same. However, I seem to recall that the boiler is pitched higher on the T26 - must get hold of the GERS drawings and compare.  

[Northroader]

Although Stephenson valve gear was fitted from O18, and the earlier were rebuilt with this, so strictly that would have been a better class designation, really?

[sem34090]

It would make sense, I suppose. Somewhere I have drawings for both.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

 

I don't think we've featured Anarcho-syndicalists yet; perhaps them?!?

 

Well it was a failed joint railway initiative created in the pre-grouping days by a syndicate of utopian socialist mill owners in the mould of Robert Owen, who discovered that while Anarchy was to them an acceptable political goal it was of little use when attempting to direct a team of Irish navvies to excavate a tunnel.  

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

I don't think we've featured Anarcho-syndicalists yet; perhaps them?!?

 

I'm not sure even anarcho-syndicalists would derail their own conference train?

 

25 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Yes, the GER class designations are taken from that of the first Lot built to that design.  Hence M15 is both the class designation and the order no. for the initial batch.

 

As on LSWR, as I understand it - does the practice originate with William Adams? The order no. aspect explains why locomotives built by outside firms are not designated in this way but rather by first in the class. Incidentally, I note that LSWR X6 4-4-0 No. 666 appears to be the last engine ordered by Adams at Nine Elems, although perhaps not the last to enter service, judging by the numbering of the T6 class.

[Nearholmer]

Looks as if Overstrand was a centre of Methodism, under the patronage of Lord Battersea. So, if bet on the pious passengers having been Methodists.

 

“Sidney and Beatrice Webb stayed with Lord and Lady Battersea, whom they disliked, on a working break with their fellow Fabians, George Bernard Shaw and Graham Wallas.”

 

Lord Battersea seems to have been a rather colourful individual https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Flower,_1st_Baron_Battersea

Edited October 6, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

That picture of a T26 looks highly implausible ...... is it meant to show Bressingham, or some such preservation location?

I deliberately chose the picture because it shows an idealised image.  I agree it's implausible and the artist who painted the picture must have been wearing some fairly heavy duty rosy tint specs.

[runs as required]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Looks as if Overstrand was a centre of Methodism, under the patronage of Lord Battersea. So, if bet on the pious passengers having been Methodists.

“Sidney and Beatrice Webb stayed with Lord and Lady Battersea, whom they disliked, on a working break with their fellow Fabians, George Bernard Shaw and Graham Wallas.”

Lord Battersea seems to have been a rather colourful individual https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Flower,_1st_Baron_Battersea

Strange how the Whimsical Wanderings of CA often intersect with one's own wanderings. Thank You.

I've never previously linked the Overstrand of north Norfolk (and my sister in law's stomping ground) with my one time residence at the top of "Overstrand Mansions",  Battersea Park SW11.

It provided a variety of memorable ways of commuting across to Kings Cross via Victoria or Waterloo.

dh

 

[DonB]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Looks as if Overstrand was a centre of Methodism, under the patronage of Lord Battersea. So, if bet on the pious passengers having been Methodists.

 

 

Methodists disapproved of betting ! 

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, DonB said:

 

Methodists disapproved of betting ! 

 

That doesn't prevent others from betting on them.

 

We've seen that the Anarchist-Communists' annual outing was by Midland to the scenic grandeur of the Derbyshire dales. Evidently the Anarcho-Syndicalists or Methodists* weren't so flush and had to make do with the Great Eastern to some second-rate resort - clearly Comrade Cyril Flower, as a new creation, was not on such an established footing within the establishment, subverting it from within, as agents "Devonshire" and "Rutland". 

 

*To choice. As far as I can see, Anarcho-Syndicalism is a form of secularised Methodism, which in my view reflects well on both.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Compound2632

[Buhar]

I wonder if the derailment of The Beast was while moving the carriages while they were empty and so avoided BoT scrutiny.

 

The idyllic scene Annie provided is marred by the obvious issue that play would have stopped while the train was passing behind the bowler's arm and, in any case, everyone would have wanted to watch it.  Very evocative depiction of the locomotive, though.

 

My money is on the Methodists, or maybe a Temperance Group, they were forever organising events by rail.  Fortunately, the companies often provided non-corridor stock so those that enjoyed the prospect of a day out but were not committed in any way to the cause could play cards or take a wee tipple without fear of discovery.

 

Alan

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Looks as if Overstrand was a centre of Methodism, under the patronage of Lord Battersea. So, if bet on the pious passengers having been Methodists.

 

 

 

Perhaps, then, the derailment was the work of Anglicano-Synodists?

 

One vicar of my acquaintance said that the Methodists were quite respectable; rather like Anglicans without Bishops. But surely, thought I, that's the best bit!

[Nearholmer]

Overstrand, seemingly, wasn’t such a second-rate resort ........ it seems to have had a brief flowering of popularity as the resort of the fairly-nouvea-exceedingly-riche.

 

Always crops up, the fact that a very small proportion of people in Edwardian Britain managed to be stupendously rich, massively  politically influential, and hugely culturally influential, all at the same time. One decent-sized ocean liner could probably have accommodated everyone of established influence. 

 

We now seem to have a greater division of labour among the elite, so perhaps the elite have got lazier, and can’t cope with too many leading roles simultaneously.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

One vicar of my acquaintance said that the Methodists were quite respectable; rather like Anglicans without Bishops. But surely, thought I, that's the best bit!

 

They have declined...

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

I deliberately chose the picture because it shows an idealised image.  I agree it's implausible and the artist who painted the picture must have been wearing some fairly heavy duty rosy tint specs.

 

You see a lot of pictures like that as jigsaw puzzles in gifte shoppes.....

 

Hits a lot of targets for rosy tinted nostalgia, the village blacksmith sorting out a horse, a young chap and chapette in a red MG, a quaint steam loco bowling along and bowling along in the background, a cricket match on a spacious village green with the church tower rising in the distance.

 

Crumpets!  I must have more crumpets for my tea!

 

 

Overstrand....

It rang a bell....

 

One of Boulton  Pauls (formerly of Norwich)  lethal designs and the last Biplane "medium" bomber in the RAF, seeing brief service in the late '30s.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulton_%26_Paul_Overstrand

 

Seeing as that wasn't bad enough, they then went on to produce the "Defiant"....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulton_Paul_Defiant

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Hroth

[Buhar]

I'm really not sure about Bishops, being brought up Presbyterian might have something to do with it.  I get taken aback when I hear a prelate being referred to as "Bishop Tim" and when/if we are blessed with a Bishop Wayne or Bishop Baz (with a due nod to any Waynes or Barrys around), the world will surely have ended.  Surely, likes Popes and others in Holy Orders, they could adopt a nom-de-eglise from the myriad of saints.  I still resent having attended a Cathedral School where my "Christian" name was never used.

 

Alan

[Edwardian]

There is a whole fascinating area of outré characters and outlandish sects in the Nineteenth Century centering on the concept of the Apostolic Succession.  Essentially, this is the idea, via the laying on on hands, bishops and priests were consecrated in an unbroken line, one by another, all the way back to the Apostles.

 

Nowadays anyone who can find someone to follow them can set up a "church". In the Nineteenth Century, whether or not your church ministers were ordained via apostolic succession was a big deal, so people went to extraordinary lengths to claim succession. Enter the episcopi vagantes, or wandering bishops; independent, rogue or 'freelance' prelates, who had, or claimed to have, apostolic succession, some of whom would consecrate ministers for a suitable fee!   

 

Now the Methodists, despite not having Bishops to show them the way, are respectable inasmuch as they can claim to have the Apostolic Succession.  I'll let Wiki sum up how this goes:

 

Some scholars argue that in 1763, Greek Orthodox bishop Erasmus of the Diocese of Arcadia, who was visiting London at the time, consecrated John Wesley a bishop, and ordained several Methodist lay preachers as priests, including John Jones. However, Wesley could not openly announce his episcopal consecration without incurring the penalty of the Præmunire Act. In light of Wesley's episcopal consecration, the Methodist Church can lay a claim on apostolic succession, as understood in the traditional sense. Since John Wesley "ordained and sent forth every Methodist preacher in his day, who preached and baptized and ordained, and since every Methodist preacher who has ever been ordained as a Methodist was ordained in this direct 'succession' from Wesley, then the Methodist Church teaches that it has all the direct merits coming from apostolic succession, if any such there be."

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Edwardian
spelling!

[brack]

1 hour ago, Buhar said:

The idyllic scene Annie provided is marred by the obvious issue that play would have stopped while the train was passing behind the bowler's arm

I was thinking the boundary looks very short....

[wagonman]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Overstrand, seemingly, wasn’t such a second-rate resort ........ it seems to have had a brief flowering of popularity as the resort of the fairly-nouvea-exceedingly-riche.

 

 

 

Thanks to the writings of Clement Scott, Overstrand as the heart of Poppyland became popular among the cognoscenti who kept Lutyens and others busy. Doubt they did quite enough for the N&SR though...

 

 

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

Thanks to the writings of Clement Scott, Overstrand as the heart of Poppyland became popular among the cognoscenti who kept Lutyens and others busy. Doubt they did quite enough for the N&SR though...

 

 

 

See, look what you've done now.  I have a vision of a bunch of Methodists, having eschewed the Demon Drink, getting stoned on opium.