RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2016 What is the head count at Hornby though? They are not a manufacturing company like in the old days at Margate. They outsource manufacturing, they outsource the warehousing. What is left? Managers, a few designers (though I'm sure that is a few, leaving much of the design work to China?), and sales (anyone seen much of a sales rep organisation?). Add a few admin (online sales, HR and "Girl Friday" duties etc), I don't think that would be too many. Now I've considered primarily the Hornby railway brand, that used to include Scalextric, but some of those jobs would be shared across the company (think HR?), so even taking the other brands into considerration, the numbers couldn't swell too much surely? Stewart A good point.I think maybe we are missing the obvious.Just because it has a big brand name doesn't necessarily mean its corporate HQ is teeming with dedicated staff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPatBrit Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 What is the head count at Hornby though? They are not a manufacturing company like in the old days at Margate. They outsource manufacturing, they outsource the warehousing. What is left? Managers, a few designers (though I'm sure that is a few, leaving much of the design work to China?), and sales (anyone seen much of a sales rep organisation?). Add a few admin (online sales, HR and "Girl Friday" duties etc), I don't think that would be too many. Now I've considered primarily the Hornby railway brand, that used to include Scalextric, but some of those jobs would be shared across the company (think HR?), so even taking the other brands into considerration, the numbers couldn't swell too much surely? Stewart Ime, if they don't have a permanent office in Hong Kong/China with someone responsible for management of the contract manufacturing and toolmaking, then they are making a serious mistake, (while admitting I have no idea if they do or they don't). And the individuals concerned better have a stronger allegiance to Hornby than they do the locals, with enough skills to be "dangerous" to those locals in moulding/diecasting manufacturing, tooling and quality control. Again, ime these individuals won't come cheap, they'll want Hong Kong levels of renumeration, not Chinese. Flying a pencil pusher in and out once a month or so won't cut it, (part of the key to Oxford Diecast's success is the guys overseeing Hong Kong/China, know the manufacturing/tooling side of the business). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 2, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2016 What is the head count at Hornby though? They are not a manufacturing company like in the old days at Margate. They outsource manufacturing, they outsource the warehousing. What is left? Managers, a few designers (though I'm sure that is a few, leaving much of the design work to China?), and sales (anyone seen much of a sales rep organisation?). Add a few admin (online sales, HR and "Girl Friday" duties etc), I don't think that would be too many. Now I've considered primarily the Hornby railway brand, that used to include Scalextric, but some of those jobs would be shared across the company (think HR?), so even taking the other brands into consideration, the numbers couldn't swell too much surely? Stewart As far as I know development/research/design is done in house - definitely so for the railway side of the business (and maybe also for Airfix and Scalextric?). This definitely goes up to final drawing level and might also include CADs but I don't know if that is the case or not (it would be unusual if it does - most CADs are done in China for other manufacturers as far as I'm aware but they're checked and approved by the UK customer which in itself can be quite a workload although modern communications make the process very strightforward). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 As far as I know development/research/design is done in house - definitely so for the railway side of the business (and maybe also for Airfix and Scalextric?). This definitely goes up to final drawing level and might also include CADs but I don't know if that is the case or not (it would be unusual if it does - most CADs are done in China for other manufacturers as far as I'm aware but they're checked and approved by the UK customer which in itself can be quite a workload although modern communications make the process very strightforward). Both Hornby and Bachmann do their design work in the UK. I've been told repeatedly over the years that this has to be so because the Chinese have never seen and do not understand British railway equipment. Everything, including colours and wording/logos has to be supplied exactly as you want it, otherwise you get what they think will be OK. Hornby told us that the only item not designed in Margate was the Sentinel 0-4-0 diesel shunter, which was outsourced from a UK design firm. (CJL) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 at £55m (assumed) and 200 employees (according to wiki), thats something like £275k revenue per head, and with a company that doesn't have large amounts of unskilled labour (i.e large production lines). What is the head count at Hornby though? They are not a manufacturing company like in the old days at Margate. They outsource manufacturing, they outsource the warehousing. What is left? Stewart their financial profile page on yahoo.co.uk indicates 242. I don't know if this was updated after outsourcing their warehouse operations and moving to Sandwich. We have to remember that there will be design teams for all brands - Hornby, Scalextric, Airfix, Corgi, and the international railway brands: Jouef, Rivarossi, Arnold and Electrotren. There are teams of people in France, Spain Italy, Germany and the US. (The US organization is a small distribution centre in Washington.) You can find the answers you are looking for in the annual report. Note that this applies to the situation a year ago. Hornby spends less than 20% of their revenue in staff costs. (Actually this is smaller than I might have guessed.) 2015 £’000 Staff costs (note 23) ........................... 10,210 Note 23. EMPLOYEES AND DIRECTORS Staff costs for the year: 2015 £’000 Wages and salaries .............................. 8,444 Share-based payments (note 22) .................. 205 Social security costs ........................... 1,131 Other pension costs (note 24) ................... 414 Redundancy and compensation for loss of office .. 16 Total ........................................... 10,210 Average monthly number of people (including Executive Directors) employed by the Group: 2015 Operations .......................... 65 Sales, marketing and distribution ... 140 Administration ...................... 47 Total ............................... 252 Key management compensation: 2015 £’000 Salaries and short-term employee benefits ....... 1,799 Share-based payments ............................ 205 Other pension costs ............................. 171 Redundancy and compensation for loss of office .. – Total ........................................... 2,175 Specific compensation for key company officers is also detailed in the report. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) Ime, if they don't have a permanent office in Hong Kong/China with someone responsible for management of the contract manufacturing and toolmaking, then they are making a serious mistake, (while admitting I have no idea if they do or they don't).The answer is in the 2015 annual report. There are a couple of references to it. In 2014–15 we have complemented our undoubted expertise in product development and consumer knowledge with new commercial experience in UK and French sales, international merchandising and logistics, vendor and commercial management in Hong Kong and e-commerce in London.(my emphasis). It is new for the 2014/15 financial year and an investment they made after their supply chain chaos. Edited April 3, 2016 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPatBrit Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) The answer is in the 2015 annual report. There are a couple of references to it.(my emphasis). It is new for the 2014/15 financial year and an investment they made after their supply chain chaos.Sounds like they didn't and paid the price, but learn't from the mistake and now they do. Rewarding to know they listened to me, lol So the headcount in the annual report is not all UK based. Edited April 3, 2016 by ExPatBrit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 On 17th March it was noted here (#1406) that "Last Chance to Buy" had vanished from the Hornby website, but like a vampire it seems to have arisen once more. However, there's not many items and they're not conspicuously reduced. Hornby obviously feel that they need a stock clearance shelf, but perhaps they've taken on board the idea that they don't need to slash prices on it to the bone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewCarty Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 On 17th March it was noted here (#1406) that "Last Chance to Buy" had vanished from the Hornby website, but like a vampire it seems to have arisen once more. However, there's not many items and they're not conspicuously reduced. Hornby obviously feel that they need a stock clearance shelf, but perhaps they've taken on board the idea that they don't need to slash prices on it to the bone! The B1 is coming down to a more sensible price, £155 was a silly price to start it at, so I would assume rather than a last chance to buy, it is simply a price reduction, as I seem to recall it only appeared around December/January. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 The B1 is coming down to a more sensible price, £155 was a silly price to start it at, so I would assume rather than a last chance to buy, it is simply a price reduction, as I seem to recall it only appeared around December/January. There is at least on ebay at £99 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted April 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2016 New CEO announced http://www.reuters.com/article/Hornby-ceo-idUSL3N17T3QF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted April 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2016 Ah,the accountants are in the driving seat.No surprise there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Could also mean that they were struggling to find anyone externally who wanted the job and given he's there, in post, free to hire (no agency fees) made an easy choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted April 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2016 Ah,the accountants are in the driving seat.No surprise there. Accountants running railway related organisations, what can possibly go wrong? On a serious note, accountants will be holding at least the CEO, Sales and Finance directors roles. Given it appears the development and production teams are doing OK at the moment in getting product out and some nice models are in the pipeline, hopefully the bean counters will let them get on with making models and focus management's attention on sorting out the ERP and other functional/back office problems that are undermining current performance. A proper stock take might be a good place to start. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Could also mean that they were struggling to find anyone externally who wanted the job and given he's there, in post, free to hire (no agency fees) made an easy choice. Now on the Hornby website and the appointment is not immediate with Roger Canham continuing as CEO but definitely returning to non exec role by the end of 2016. Share price has also rallied slighty - but we're hardly into a full trading day as yet of course. Edited April 27, 2016 by The Stationmaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 It's a slightly odd announcement in my view. If he isn't taking the role immediately, why not wait until you can announce the new CFO at same time? Interesting they said only an "Interim" CFO though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted April 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2016 It's a slightly odd announcement in my view. If he isn't taking the role immediately, why not wait until you can announce the new CFO at same time? Interesting they said only an "Interim" CFO though. I suspect they needed to reassure the market that there is someone in charge pending recruitment etc. Otherwise jittery investors will get more jittery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 I suspect they needed to reassure the market that there is someone in charge pending recruitment etc. Otherwise jittery investors will get more jittery. Given the share price fell c75% in one day, there's not much more for them to get jittery about... Normally I'd agree that announcing something positive like an appointment is calming. However, both the appointment of the FD and the use of the word "interim" for his successor throws up more questions. Were there external candidates? Why appointment someone who'd been on the bridge when the ship hit the rocks? Why can't you find a permanent replacement? Why can't you give a timeframe for Canham reverting to non-executive status? Etc Of course, as said before, we're not privy to the direct discussions between the bank, the shareholders and the company and don't know what other pressures may have driven this announcement 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Well the Accountants have been running the real railway for some time now (and look where that's got us) so no surprise they have now taken over the model one as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Well the Accountants have been running the real railway for some time now (and look where that's got us) so no surprise they have now taken over the model one as well Yes, we have one of the safest and busiest railways ever known ! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Yes, we have one of the safest and busiest railways ever known ! Yes but look at the subsidy required to run it! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 It's a slightly odd announcement in my view. If he isn't taking the role immediately, why not wait until you can announce the new CFO at same time? Interesting they said only an "Interim" CFO though. I don't follow. No doubt it is reassuring to shareholders that a CEO has been named. Mr. Cooke is CEO effective immediately. He remains as the acting CFO until a replacement is hired. I have seen this happen at other companies. I'd say it is commonplace in such situations. You could ask the question: "who is really in charge if you have an Executive Chairman of the Board and a CEO?" but if they have a good working relationship, it should not be an issue. I've seen it work well. One presumes Mr. Cooke has a good working relationship with Mr. Canham, or he wouldn't have been promoted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Fair points Michael - I think I misread Canham continuing his executive position as delaying Cooke assuming full CEO responsibility. I agree with your question as to who's in charge. I do find it odd, though, to say you're specifically looking for an interim FD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) I do find it odd, though, to say you're specifically looking for an interim FD Perhaps someone internal will fill this role until a full-time replacement is hired or more significantly perhaps there really isn't anyone internal ready to step up to this post? They just closed their books at the beginning of the month. They will publish final audited results in June. This is a very busy time for the finance office at Hornby PLC even without all the revised business planning and activity communicating with bankers. Edited April 27, 2016 by Ozexpatriate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted April 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2016 Could also mean that they were struggling to find anyone externally who wanted the job and given he's there, in post, free to hire (no agency fees) made an easy choice. Or it could be he had made quite an impact and is brilliantly qualified to lead the organisation. Just because it's an internal appointment does not imply second best. Anyway, as we all know Accountants are great guys 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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