RMweb Premium Reorte Posted June 3, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2016 With all this 'no this, no that, it would be be more sensible to say 'no photographs' and have done with it. Most of the "nos" are just common sense and polite behaviour (and the commercial one might be legal but better ask somone more experienced than me with the law about that). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 3, 2016 Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2016 "No commercial photos" (e.g. for magazines) without permission seems reasonable too IMO. Nothing wrong with this, although I can't imagine any magazine is going to want to print photos shot from the barrier line. Layout shoots are rarely carried out at shows (no time, rubbish light) and always with the owners involvement. You can't just run in an plonk a camera on like this bloke: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I charge extra for dusting layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I charge extra for dusting layouts. Can I hire your dusting services then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 There does seem to be a tendency to take a picture of anything and everything, just because you can. Probably most mobile phones having a built-in camera doesn't help, but I still don't quite understand the urge. Unfortunately, like those photos of someone's restaurant meal that end up on facebook (wtf is that about?), I'd venture most of them are totally pointless and won't ever get another look. Someone mentioned taking layout photos for inspiration with their own projects. That's absolutely fair enough. If photography's your hobby, then fine too. However, to all those that muscle up to the barrier and snap away under the illusion that they're the 21st century's answer to David Bailey, please come back down to earth and put your lens cap back on. I stirred my coffee the other day, and in the foam appeared an image akin to the face of Christ, like some Starbucks version of the Turin Shroud. Was I tempted to take a picture? Not in the slightest, because it wouldn't have been a very good photo and no-one would have been remotely interested. One teeny comment slightly edited to avoid upsetting the hyper-sensitive "Outraged of Milton Keynes" types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi Steve, Sounds like an idea for a poster.... Here you go! Warning Poster.jpg Is the use of this notice Copyrighted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
icphotos Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Believe it's only good manners to ask permission, however I've noticed at the last couple of shows there has been a distinct lack of courtesy to layout operators and other visitors but a number of "layout paparazzi". At a show a couple of weeks ago I was elbowed out of the way by one photographer who seemed totally oblivious to anyone else at the show. The layout owner tried to speak to the photographer who suddenly developed loss of hearing, banged off a coupe of snaps,with flash, then spun round off to the next layout. Must have spent less than 30 seconds at each layout in the show! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted June 11, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11, 2016 Is the use of this notice Copyrighted? Hi Dave, No - if you want to use it - please do! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Asking can lead to open doors and extras. For example if you ask operators if it is okay they will often run and pose a train especially for you. I once asked an airline stewardess if it would be okay to take a snap down the length of the cabin. She said she would find out and came back later and said for me to come forward. She led me to the equipment bays at the front of the cabin and said go up to the cockpit but wait until invited in. It did and the captain invited me in, introduced the pilot and flight engineer, explained about the controls and said go ahead and take the photos I wanted. I hadn't actually asked for a flight deck visit but as the plane was doing around 1400mph and was called Concorde it was something special. And all because I asked first before snapping. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitalspark Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I also enjoyed an invite to the flight deck of this famous aircraft but that was back in the day before the terrorist threats. You couldn't wangle a visit to the flightdeck of the Glasgow shuttle now regardless of how polite or how large the bribe. Changed days unfortunately but have some great memories as I am sure you also have. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 There were about 50 people at our Wessex Group of the Hornby Railway Collectors Association meeting last night. One member asked me if I knew who owned the SNCF train so he could take a picture of it. I didn't so I asked someone else. He said it was that chap over there with the red shirt. I went up to him but the train did not belong to him. Then I tried another man and it was not him. Finally I found someone deeply involved in a conversation and I interrupted him. He said of course my friend can take a picture and he stopped the train. I hope the lady in the background does not mind being in the picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I think that such signs, announcements and what-have-you would be thought of as unfriendly and would create an unfavourable impression of the show (if the show was responsible) and the layouts (if they were down to the exhibitors). Certainly I wouldn't go to any show which had such features and I suspect that a good many others wouldn't either. Bearing mind that most clubs need their show as a fund raiser for their clubhouse I think that a good deal of thought would have to be given before going down that route. Having said that some of the comments above are justified, particularly the use of flash and the placing of cameras on the layouts in order to get a picture. Not acceptable in my view, not at all. My technique is to use a point and shoot digital camera and a monopod. Both are small enough to be unobtrusive both to the operators and other observers of the layouts (they take up less room than the photographer). In addition, the camera has the beep turned off (they're damned annoying) and I use program mode with the flash off. 'Film speed' is set to 400ASA and white balance adjusted to give the best results. The monopod is screwed into the base of the camera and is partially extended in order to get down amongst the weeds and into the detail. I don't lean over the layout, dangerous and anyway that's what the zoom is for. I hold the monopod with the left hand and form a triangle with my fingers, the finger tips touching, gently, the layout's fascia; not the scenery. The right hand operates the camera. I spend a good deal of my time on my knees at shows! That's it really. There isn't enough light to get a shot of moving trains so it's down to static shots only and a good many of them end up in the bin for one reason or another. Venues with crowd barriers are much more difficult than those without, because I can't get close enough to the layouts' fascias to use the technique and I'm loath to use a tripod which is why I gave up on video. There is no need for a photographer to irritate either the operators or fellow spectators, just curb the enthusiasm for that shot and be sensitive to the needs of others! Regards I definitely agree with you about being sensitive. On more than one occasion with front operated layouts, including once yesterday. I've had to ask a particularly intent photographer to please move aside to allow me to operate (politely I hope) I'd feel a bit uneasy about anyone touching a layout I was responsible for even lightly without discussing it first. It would only take a shove from one of the large rucksack brigade to turn that into a bit of a disaster and it's hard enough getting the parents of small children to tell their charges to not touch without them seeing adults doing just that. I normally do ask permission before taking any photos (and always with flash) but some exhibitors seem rather surprised to be asked. To be honest it's never bothered me as an exhibitor if they don't, particularly when they're just snapping away with their phone from a safe distance. Asking permission can often of course begin a dialogue. On many occasions, with a layout I've been particularly fascinated by, that has led to a good "under the bonnet" look (crawling around getting pictures of point operating mechanisms typically) and sometimes even to an invite to operate the layout. In one case I even ended up becoming a regular operator on a layout I'd particularly admired and in the process gained a good friend. What I don't particualrly like, while accepting that it may often be shyness, is when someone spends a long time carefully photographing a layout I'm operating not very intensively without exchanging so much as a word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Maybe operators need to have a camera to hand - with very bright flash - in order to take photographs of the photographers. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russianlayout Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I think we've had the argument before as to whether model rail exhibitions are private or public spaces. If public spaces then, within certain bounds, the subject can't dictate the use of the photograph. At least that is how I understand it. Still doesn't harm to be polite and consider the owner/operators wishes though. I think if an entrance fee is asked for it becomes a contract between parties which may include the non taking of photos and anyone paying the entrance fee is therefore agreeing those terms. Be aware also some venues may have restrictions on use of photography or filming during an event and when you hire that venue, you therefore agree to those terms. What I have seen more and more is layouts asking for a donation to take a piccy, I personally won't book any of those layouts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted July 11, 2016 Administrators Share Posted July 11, 2016 What I have seen more and more is layouts asking for a donation to take a piccy, I personally won't book any of those layouts Which ones? I've seen lots of layouts but never one asking for money for photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Davis Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Maybe operators need to have a camera to hand - with very bright flash - in order to take photographs of the photographers. Geoff Endacott I visited Pecorama last week, it has a model photographer who's camera flashes at the viewer, made me think of this post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Now there's a thought.... Have your photo taken with Andy Y for 25p. Or the elusive Kenton for £10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I'm not giving anyone 25p; scammers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE1562 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I think we've had the argument before as to whether model rail exhibitions are private or public spaces. If public spaces then, within certain bounds, the subject can't dictate the use of the photograph. At least that is how I understand it. Still doesn't harm to be polite and consider the owner/operators wishes though. I agree with Bod..... it is down to the exhibition organisers not the person displaying to determine whether it is private or a public space and what can be dictated to be photographed flashed or otherwise...... opening up to public view.. who have paid, as I see it, is a choice of the exhibitor to display and should expect people wanting to take photo"s or videos.......all I can say is if they do not wish this they must think there "exhibition layout" is good not enough...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 it is down to the exhibition organisers not the person displaying to determine whether it is private or a public space No it's not, it's already defined in both the Criminal Justice Act and the Public Order Act. Public place means "any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise". Ergo, an exhibition is a public place during the advertised opening hours. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russianlayout Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 True Dave but a venue can put a restriction on filming and photos, which forms part of the hire agreement and made a condition of sale of tickets at point of sale. example anyone hiring my theatre isn't allowed to permit any filming by them or any public filming of any performance. For a model rail show, I would lift that ban. A cinema which is a public place has the same restrictions. We always ask any primary schools we hire for model rail shows if they have any restrictions, some have and some haven't, some restrict during school hours while others have no photo policy of any event within school grounds. Lots however don't even have a policy on it. During the set up, the evening before, we had a restricted ban on piccys and video at the school this weekend as there was a kids gym class going on around us in the school as we set up, they lifted the ban during the actual event. The piccy takers who scare me are the ones with the iphones so near the track getting the picture of the loco approaching and just moving it away at the last minute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggs Eye Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I had a guy start taking pictures of my two lads while they were operating Cottleston last year. It made me uncomfortable. Very politely I asked him to stop and concentrate on the trains. As for videoing layout - I usually find it's the kiss of death for smooth operation, derailments inevitably occur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 True Dave but a venue can put a restriction on filming and photos, which forms part of the hire agreement and made a condition of sale of tickets at point of sale. True, but that wasn't the point I was addressing. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melly Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 well I going to swim against the tide here . . . . I've operated layouts probably a dozen times these past few years all at major events and I would say that being asked to take a picture is the exception rather than the rule. And TBH I don't give a dam; every day life has far greater hazards than a 'flash' going off near you. With the proliferation of camera phones etc never have layout owners been able to have their work showcased over so many media; after all, that is why you show layouts - to get them seen! Lets face it, regardless of it being good manners or not, you take a layout to exhibitions you should expect pictures to be taken. This is all a nonsense. However, I had no idea how prevalent theft was from exhibitions until I attended as an exhibitor and got to know other exhibitors. Now that's a character trait to discuss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hi all, Despite having the notice on display - I recently had an accident caused by an unthinking photographer and his camera flash. I was using a razor saw to do some precision cuts on an HO US outline cast chassis - so that sound would fit in. This was part of a demonstration. Anyway, whilst concentrating on what I was doing, a flash went off less that 12 inches from me. I jumpe and so did the razor saw! Unfortunatly the razor saw when it jumped out of the chassis continued to move and went into one of my fingers - right to the bone. A good thing was that it was a new, exra fine tooth blade and the cut was clean as a result. The photographer saw this happen and carried on taking photos - much to my displeasure. He then ran a mile when I started to give him an earful. So - signs are not a sure fire means to prevent photographers! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.