An alternative to Thomas The Tank Engine layout

[brightspark]

Ok I will start the ball rolling on this one.

 

While at Railex 2016 I saw several small children with their parents desperate to get involved "Look but don't touch". Now David Bigcheeseplant reported that "On the feedback there was not one comment that there was no Thomas layout or train set layout for children. I think the quality and serious aspect of Railex will hopefully get us away from the train spotter playing with toy trains and show that it is a creative hobby, which everyone can enjoy."

 

But it got me thinking about our Blue friend and how it seems to be perhaps the only entry for the kids.

 

Now its not just Railex, I have had this niggling thought for some time and in that period I have observed several layouts where this named loco and his friends appear. Here I am referring to, what is known as, finescale layouts. What I have witnessed is that the layout operators see a young audience and out comes Thomas, see the guardians cooing to their children, "look its Thomas, look it's Thomas....there look (insert childs name). Choo choo..."

 

What strikes me is that the child does seldom seem impressed and I suspect it is because they have picked up that the "toy train" is out of context with the layout. I have asked several of the layouts owners as to why they have gone to the trouble of converting a Blue Engine with number 1 on its side to P4/EM etc and the response is that it is for the kiddies.

 

But I really wonder if the "kiddies" appreciate it, or if it is appropriate say for Railex, ExpoEM, Scaleforum et al where the emphasis is more on skill and craftsmanship (I am struggling for a definition here, so how would you define it). Not that there is anything wrong with a layout aimed at kids who can play trains. I have seen this done at several shows, REC at Woking, Hampton Court at Tolworth etc where a Thomas layout is put together, the kids can play trains and they are a great success. But here is the question...

 

Are there alternatives to Thomas the Tank layouts that can get children engaged into the hobby?

I am thinking perhaps toward finescale but perhaps other avenues. OK they will be several years away from their Pendon, but I am thinking what impression could be made to start them on that road.

 

Perhaps as a byproduct it could also perhaps help the image of the hobby and meet David Bigcheesplants aspiration quoted above.

 

Over to you...

 

 

 

[Retfordlad]

Hmm. Must confess to a Thomas in my layout .. bought for my son when he was 6 now he's turned 20 .. my start on the road was being given my first Dublo set at the tender age of 12 .. 1 am now almost 61 .. it did me no harm neither did the fact that both Mum and Dads family were railway families .. Dads Dad and his brothers drivers for GNR then LNER and Mums driver for LBSCR.

Failing family connections just a well timed gift of a train set a couple of colourful railway books should help no end !

[Retfordlad]

Hmm. Must confess to a Thomas in my layout .. bought for my son when he was 6 now he's turned 20 .. my start on the road was being given my first Dublo set at the tender age of 12 .. 1 am now almost 61 .. it did me no harm neither did the fact that both Mum and Dads family were railway families .. Dads Dad and his brothers drivers for GNR then LNER and Mums driver for LBSCR.

Failing family connections just a well timed gift of a train set a couple of colourful railway books should help no end !

[RJS1977]

One approach - and I know it's not easy - is to try to get layouts at the show (or at least individual trains on a layout) which are relevant to what children can see today. So 66s, HSTs in the current liveries, S-stock, or whatever else is relevant to the area in which the show is being held. And yes, that includes main line steam locos and even locos off the local heritage lines that the children might have seen or ridden behind.

[PaulRhB]

I don't think a show 'needs' a Thomas layout but it's one way in that might attract a parent to buy a set and that start kids on trains. To say we don't need Thomas at all means we ignore that option. A have a go layout can be finescale note Dave Taylor says a 5 yr old asked for a go, and he obliged, in the Railex thread.

All I'd say is if there's one on offer then it's worth considering, I don't like the ones crammed with every toy under the sun but Traction did a good N gauge one using a Hornby style plan. Kids tend to like stuff hammering round so layouts like Coppel with the HST's and APT's are just as good as a 'crowd pleaser'.

I'm unashamedly a Thomas fan as I grew up with the books in the 70's and saw the Rev with his layout at Wembley Model Engineering Show.

So in summary it's up to the show manager to decide as it's their hard work and their taste but I don't really see Thomas as any different to Hornby Tinplate in allowing people to relive their childhood and attract people who like the brash liveries and stylised look.

[brianusa]

 

Its hard to convince scale oriented enthusiasts to embrace Thomas as not only is he a creature of fiction, he has a face. However, he is and has been a favourite with kids of all ages all over the world, so who are we to deny the visitors who see our layouts and trains. On the preserved lines he is a money maker which enables the purists to be happy with the 'real' engines and he is well represented in the modelling world in all scales.

 

Mine is a Lionel O, certainly too big to be scale but fits in nicely with Hornby stock.

 

Brian

[PaulRhB]

But it got me thinking about our Blue friend and how it seems to be perhaps the only entry for the kids.

 

 

Are there alternatives to Thomas the Tank layouts that can get children engaged into the hobby?

I am thinking perhaps toward finescale but perhaps other avenues. OK they will be several years away from their Pendon, but I am thinking what impression could be made to start them on that road.

Well there's Underground Ernie, Harry Potter as alternative toys and a few diecast Disney locos from 'Planes' latest movie.

 

As I said above normal railways are just as engaging but I find kids who enjoy shunting are the minority and most prefer trains at speed. There are exceptions to that but racing games are very popular on consoles and still with RC cars and Scalextric so it's a case of catering for as many tastes as possible within the layouts available and the intended audience.

Railex is aimed at the more advanced end of the hobby and that's fine because there are general club shows around too that are aimed at all levels. Railex wouldn't be so popular if there weren't enough looking for that aspect. I like Railex and I like Warley for different reasons but it gives me an excuse to enjoy a different day out

[Ozexpatriate]

I would suggest a layout featuring contemporary passenger trains in contemporary liveries - ideally something local to the venue that patrons might actually have ridden on to attend the show.

 

It need not (and should not) be complex. On-stage a double main line passing through a station with trains going in each direction would be fine.

 

Off-stage could be 'dead ends' (literally so to avoid over-runs) or a roundy-roundy.

 

The most important thing about the layout concept is the opportunity for visiting children to make it go.  This could be as simple as a button to push to make the train appear - perhaps a 'brake button' to make it stop - which would have 'inertia' so that braking would have to be 'learned' to gradually bring the train to a stop. Signals would be important too - interlocked so the train will not start without a clear aspect.

 

This is a rough conceptual view:

 

 

The trains should have sound and pre-recorded station announcements (not too annoyingly loud of course) could play when the train stops at the station. They could also 'break the fourth wall' and offer encouragement to participate if the layout is not busy.

 

Given the simple operational parameters, the fewer points etc, the better to avoid derailments. Some 'smart' wiring/control is required to make it work as simply as possible.

[peach james]

Anything which engages the public is generally good- the layout idea sketched above is good.  I'm as guilty as the next person too, which is a bit of a shame because the Lego trains are so easy to build/take apart.  (in my defense, by the time the public shows up, I am usually nackered from setting it all up...the most "fun" show we do here now has a day to build with the public coming in & out as we do our thing, then 2 days of display- 2 years, 2 very different build on site projects, lots of fun, will do again in Feb).

 

The Thomas layout I have is designed to be operated by the public that way-the original intent was a coin operated layout...it's since had some of the electronics stripped for my kids to have as their layout.  

 

James

[Skippy]

Active engagement is the key I think. A couple of years ago my then-six-year-old daughter was at one of Melbourne's larger exhibitions and we stopped in front of a pretty simple layout, not dissimilar to the one Ozexpatriate outlined. An offer to "come on in and drive a train" saw Chloe shunting wagons around for well over half an hour. She would never have spent that long driving Thomas around a circuit.

 

It made all the difference that the exhibitor was very laid-back about having an inexperienced child in charge of his beautifully constructed layout.

 

 - Skippy.

[Joseph_Pestell]

In the era of computer games, children are much more adept at controlling equipment. So participation is certainly possible and perhaps the best is an Inglenook style shunting puzzle.

 

Also, of course, the possibility of making something. Now we have downloadable artwork for railway structures and lineside buildings, it's cheap to do.

[jcm@gwr]

I've built an 0 gauge shunting puzzle, the controller and switches

are at the front, and called it 'HAVATRY'.

At shows it always has a queue of kids wanting to 'have a try',

and quite a few adults as well!

I purposely built it on a budget to prove that you don't need lots

of space or money to have a layout that can be fun.

[Kris]

Something larger scale where only the track is laid and in use at the start. The children can then create the buildings and scenery as the show goes on.

[peter220950]

Well there's Underground Ernie, Harry Potter as alternative toys and a few diecast Disney locos from 'Planes' latest movie.

 

 

And let's not forget

 

 

I did think about doing a small layout for Ivor with a lot of electronic control and gadgetry to see if that appealed to the more tech-savvy generation, using MERG Cbus and the like.

 

 

 

As I said above normal railways are just as engaging but I find kids who enjoy shunting are the minority and most prefer trains at speed. There are exceptions to that but racing games are very popular on consoles and still with RC cars and Scalextric so it's a case of catering for as many tastes as possible within the layouts available and the intended audience.

 

One of the most interesting things I noticed at the O Gauge show at Telford, a couple of years ago,  was that we had to prise my mate's son away from the tinplate, I think it's the excitement of speed and noise that seems to appeal more than traditional layouts.

 

Peter

[Boris]

In this day and age there is no reason why you couldn't have a small area on a layout that could be controlled from a visitors mobile phone or tablet.  It could be something as simple as turning lights on and off right through to outright control of a loco/train on a section of line.  It's one way of getting children and some adults really interested in a layout and still gives you as the owner some control over what they are doing so you don't  get any Evel Knievel moments.

[ess1uk]

My daughter loved Traction's n Thomas layout at the Trains4U open day a few years back and would have happily stayed there all day.

Not so keen on coming to shows now that she is 11

[rockershovel]

In this day and age there is no reason why you couldn't have a small area on a layout that could be controlled from a visitors mobile phone or tablet.  It could be something as simple as turning lights on and off right through to outright control of a loco/train on a section of line.  It's one way of getting children and some adults really interested in a layout and still gives you as the owner some control over what they are doing so you don't  get any Evel Knievel moments.

Judging by the problems caused offshore by the chronic and habitual abuse and misuse of anything involving wifi, tablets and phones, I'd say that was asking for trouble...

[Edwardian]

Not sure I have much sympathy for the "we're too grown up here for a kiddie layout" attitude.

 

But, no, it should not have to be Thomas.  I will confess here is that the Railway Series was entirely responsible for my learning to read; it is hard to say which came first for me, basic literacy or love of steam age railways.  As a consequence a part of me has always yearned for a OO "finescale" Sodor layout!  That is by the by, however.

 

What about something that is not obviously toy-like, as the proprietary Thomas ranges are, but which is visually interesting and a little glamorous, that children and teens (or adults for that matter) could be allowed to operate? The quality of the modelling need not be compromised; it could be "grown up" in that sense.  That way it won't 'talk down' to the younger audience in the way Thomas could do to all but the very young.

 

A Club building a layout specifically for the purpose of encouraging the public to operate it!?!  Whatever next?!?

 

There are plenty of attractive prototypes, both ancient and modern and I think both the 'solve the shunting puzzle' and 'take the express out of the terminus and stop it at the next station' challenges have a part to play. The only thing to avoid would be anything too fiddly, earnest or drear.

 

.

[Zomboid]

I think as adults we can patronise children a bit. When I've seen a layout for the kids, it's usually a 2 circuit roundy where all you can really do is either race or stage a crash. Some kids will want that, but something that engages adults as well is probably more likely to engage children for longer. A simple inglenook game which the public in general could have a go at would probably do the job better than a T****s layout.

Saying that, I have also seen a T****s themed BLT, which also had a decent cluster of children around it. Probably because you could watch him doing something more interesting than racing past at a scale 240mph.

[ian]

I attended a number of exhibitions with this layout which had a controller out front especially for children of any age to have a go.

 

Some youngsters got very absorbed and spent a long time shunting stock whilst others just wanted to make it go fast.

 

[Tim H]

A Thomas layout that's *not* a trainset-like tailchaser would be more in the spirit of Rev Audry.  How about a prototypically operated and signalled main line terminus based on the Thomas theme?

[Edwardian]

A Thomas layout that's *not* a trainset-like tailchaser would be more in the spirit of Rev Audry.  How about a prototypically operated and signalled main line terminus based on the Thomas theme?

 

That I'd like to see

[Boris]

Judging by the problems caused offshore by the chronic and habitual abuse and misuse of anything involving wifi, tablets and phones, I'd say that was asking for trouble...

 

I don't really think using a tablet to control Thomas and the Troublesome Trucks is going to cause a huge maritime disaster dude, I really don't. 

[Nearholmer]

Speaking from experience with my own children (now 4 and 8) and cousins, friends etc up to the same ages, I'm not at all convinced that Thomas is a huge draw ......... He simply isn't massively popular!

 

What children do seem to like are:

 

- driving the trains (Thomas or otherwise);

 

- being able to play properly, which means loading and unloading goods and passengers;

 

- being able to control sounds (=noise!)

 

- making things

 

Putting that altogether, I would agree with whoever above said a large scale layout, which the children can drive, play with, and add to during the exhibition.

 

Some very basic pre-cut-out cardboard buildings to colour-in (paint would be better, but a lot messier!!), then fold up and staple to shape would be good. Or, small pieces of card, to draw on, then mount into "poster boards" alongside the line.

 

It would need to be set quite low down, with perhaps a few "workbenches" alongside.

 

Flags to wave? Hats to wear? A big, robust signal, operated by a big, robust lever? At the IoWSR they have an excellent mock loco cab, where kids "fire" the loco with black wooden balls.

 

Would need a bit of care to ensure that it didn't become a crèche, or a scene from lord of the flies, though.

 

Overall, modern children have zero affinity for the traditional railway, so the "hook" needs to start with what they do have an affinity for.

 

K

[Zomboid]

I don't really think using a tablet to control Thomas and the Troublesome Trucks is going to cause a huge maritime disaster dude, I really don't.

I've seen numerous layouts controlled from someone's smartphone at exhibitions, and I don't believe they resulted in any maritime catastrophes.