Penlan Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 What was the height of a 18 foot long GWR Coach Roof Destination board, please. I would like to know prototype info, not "You can buy them from xyz Model Shop". I believe there's an article in the latest Great Western Railway Journal, No 98 entitled 'Labelling of Passenger Trains - GF Taylor, roof and destination boards', but as I have little interest in the GWR and I doubt there's a copy in PZ Smiths....Further information such as there's a (say) 1/2" border between the lettering and the edge would be helpful too. I have been given some guidance to the type face, but as all the boards where hand painted and the lettering contracted, expanded to fill the available space, it may be difficult recommending a specific type face. Reason, I have been asked to prepare some boards for 'Paddington into south Wales' trains - for somebody else's 4mm coaches. I was surprised not to be able to Google anything in Images, and searching RMWeb didn't bring up anything (so far). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted June 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2016 A visit to Steam the Swindon museum might help as they have examples handy you could measure with a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 gwrrob - Indeed they may have what's required, unfortunately for a unpaid, help a friend out bit of artwork, a visit to Swindon and return from Penzance is not exactly cost effective, and being mindful of the enormous number of books on the GWR, I thought this request might be a tad easy one to have an answer to. The HMRS's 'Great Western Way' (I probably have the first edition) only gives the length, not the height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted June 8, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2016 The '18 foot' boards were 17 feet 10 3/4 inch long, 8 3/4 inch high and 7/8 inch thick with 18 feet 0 inch between brackets according to the GWRJ article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 The '18 foot' boards were 17 feet 10 3/4 inch long, 8 3/4 inch high and 7/8 inch thick with 18 feet 0 inch between brackets according to the GWRJ article. Many thanks. Right, just the spacing of the lettering to work out, and the spelling too, I was sent ABERSYWITH, ..... Old maps etc., have ABERYSTWYTH, which is what I believe Paddington used too. I can't find any variation on the name since Victorian times, so hopefully Aberystwyth is correct, though the English Rly. companies sometimes used their own spelling. Ystwyth is the local river. The font appears to be a form of 'Times New Roman', perhaps in Bold with some extra thickening, but as stated in the OP, they were bespoke painted to spread the lettering across the boards, to look balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 There were two or three different fonts, according to the current GWRJ article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 There were two or three different fonts, according to the current GWRJ article. The one I've been asked to do is near 'Times New Roman', though there will need to be individual letters 'scaled' - that is there width altered* - as opposed to a general expansion (or contraction) of all the letters etc., I may even have to print it out, make into a .jpeg file, then with PaintShopPro, alter the width of various lines, and insert into a word document and scale to correct size and reproduce as a .pdf file - that way, any font I've used that's not on the 'clients' software, will be preserved - learnt the hard way.. * It's something I've had to do with repro 1920's car number plates, so that in say Arial font, the 'W' is scaled to 66% of it's normal width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted June 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2016 The styles are linked to individual boards. What will be the content of the boards you are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 The styles are linked to individual boards. What will be the content of the boards you are doing? PADDINGTON CAMARTHEN ABERYSTWYTH PADDINGTON ABERYSTWYTH VIA CAMARTHEN and as he's specified the Times New Roman, presumably between the wars.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 The one I've been asked to do is near 'Times New Roman', though there will need to be individual letters 'scaled' - that is there width altered* - as opposed to a general expansion (or contraction) of all the letters etc.,.... The equivalent of modern-day "justified text", then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K14 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 The equivalent of modern-day "justified text", then? Sort of, but far more involved... Justified text only alters the space between words to fill the available line space. Other tricks like Leading, Kerning & Tracking might come into play as well. That's fine for DTP, but a signwriting job may use all of those, and, in certain circumstances, the letters themselves will need to be tweaked about to get everything to fit just nicely. Seriously good signwriters like Bob Timmins & David Kynaston can do that freehand with only a couple of chalk lines for guidance; mere mortals like me have to resort to other methods (Adobe Illustrator & a banner printer). These guys undoubtedly knew what they were doing (especially the two chaps on the 'Paddington Gloucester & Cheltenham' board.):— Also of note is the difference in 'weight' between the Torquay and the PG&C boards. The Torquay board looks to be the shorter version for Hawksworths, so there's less space available - hence the use of a narrower stroke (spot the kerning error!); more room on the 18-footer behind, so a bolder stroke fits better. Also note that the 'writing area' of each board is recessed. We have a couple of original boards **somewhere** in C&W at Didcot - sadly long since stripped & repainted, but if I can turf it out I'll measure it until it's sorry. Pete S.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted June 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2016 PADDINGTON CAMARTHEN ABERYSTWYTH PADDINGTON ABERYSTWYTH VIA CAMARTHEN Has he photographic evidence to support these words as the Notice 210 (Some time between 1919 to 1933) only gives 'Paddington & Aberystwyth via Carmarthen'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted June 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2016 Sort of, but far more involved... Justified text only alters the space between words to fill the available line space. Other tricks like Leading, Kerning & Tracking might come into play as well. That's fine for DTP, but a signwriting job may use all of those, and, in certain circumstances, the letters themselves will need to be tweaked about to get everything to fit just nicely. Seriously good signwriters like Bob Tommins & David Kynaston can do that freehand with only a couple of chalk lines for guidance; mere mortals like me have to resort to other methods (Adobe Illustrator & a banner printer). These guys undoubtedly knew what they were doing (especially the two chaps on the 'Paddington Gloucester & Cheltenham' board.):— Also of note is the difference in 'weight' between the Torquay and the PG&C boards. The Torquay board looks to be the shorter version for Hawksworths, so there's less space available - hence the use of a narrower stroke (spot the kerning error!); more room on the 18-footer behind, so a bolder stroke fits better. Also note that the 'writing area' of each board is recessed. We have a couple of original boards **somewhere** in C&W at Didcot - sadly long since stripped & repainted, but if I can turf it out I'll measure it until it's sorry. Pete S.. Maybe something else to be included in Drew's (Castle) behind the scenes tour next month at Didcot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 PADDINGTON CAMARTHEN ABERYSTWYTH PADDINGTON ABERYSTWYTH VIA CAMARTHEN and as he's specified the Times New Roman, presumably between the wars.... Carmarthen! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Carmarthen! Chris Chris, your absolutely right - begger -, I'd spotted the errors' on Aber.... but how could I miss this, mindful of my Carmarthen Farmers PO wagons..... Good to see you at the WRRC AGM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 Has he photographic evidence to support these words as the Notice 210 (Some time between 1919 to 1933) only gives 'Paddington & Aberystwyth via Carmarthen'. Oh.... what a minefield..... I await further instructions from the client. I think I will stick with LNWR in the future..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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