RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2016 I think it depends entirely on the show (and the exhibitor). DEMU's Showcase exhibition doesn't provide barriers (though doesn't stop exhibitors bringing their own if they prefer) but we are trying to create an atmosphere like Scaleforum etc where people can take a closer look at the best D&E modelling (and to be honest the show isn't aimed at children though of course they are welcome!). If you provide solid barriers you can guarantee people will lean on them (so make them sturdy!). Cheers, Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 13, 2016 Administrators Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've never understood the idea that barriers aren't provided so people can get a closer look. Most are no more than a foot away from the front of the layout. Lean on them and you can rub your nose on the layout. How much closer does anyone need to get? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've never understood the idea that barriers aren't provided so people can get a closer look. Most are no more than a foot away from the front of the layout. Lean on them and you can rub your nose on the layout. How much closer does anyone need to get? I used to set barriers at 2' from the layouts. That seems plenty close enough to me. As another wrote further up, if you let everyone get right up close to the layout, most can't see anything at all. The 2' also helped match up the lines with the traders tables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2016 Not so. If you look closely the final punctuation mark is a full stop, not a comma - so it is 12V expressed to the nearest nanovolt. It would take some doing to regulate your voltage to that level of accuracy! Noted, too clever for me :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've never understood the idea that barriers aren't provided so people can get a closer look. Most are no more than a foot away from the front of the layout. Lean on them and you can rub your nose on the layout. How much closer does anyone need to get? If they are only a foot away I'm not sure there is much point is there? Hardly stops grasping hands and doesn't really provide much room if the operators need to get in. Most shows I've exhibited at with barriers have certainly had them further away than a foot. There are quite a few shows where there are no barriers and it all helps to make the atmosphere more relaxed. By definition a barrier creates a bit of separation between the public and operators. As I said, it works for some shows but I can see why it wouldn't for others. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 13, 2016 Administrators Share Posted June 13, 2016 If they are only a foot away I'm not sure there is much point is there? Hardly stops grasping hands and doesn't really provide much room if the operators need to get in. Most shows I've exhibited at with barriers have certainly had them further away than a foot Even this close they provide something to lean on rather than the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2016 Even this close they provide something to lean on rather than the layout. I'd rather people didn't lean on anything that close - I've seen people trip over barriers etc or kids sit on them etc, but that doesn't change the point that clearly some shows run very happily without barriers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've some experience with this, and my viewpoint is that lightweight barriers are probably best. We've used string (it's 3/16" sash cord, for lack of a better description) with the lego, usually put at ~2' out from the layout. The bases to hold the posts are substantial (about 60 lb concrete each), but the string its-self is very lightweight. Commercially over here, the answer is usually aluminum extendable rods, with similar weighted bases. I don't think they do much better of a job keeping the punters off the layout. (& we deal with mostly children). Signage is important- please do not touch (that means YOU!), and please do not touch (Parents Included) is what we use for our signs. Generally, it is not children who are the worst danger, but the "I know better, because I am an Adult" crowd who are the worst. (well, other than that one child who got rather sternly told...but that was a parenting issue, I am sure the child had never quite had an adult address him that way before- _DO NOT TOUCH_ coming from me can be...um, robust...but when you are on you're 3rd warning to the same child, you get a bit more serious). James 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 13, 2016 Administrators Share Posted June 13, 2016 I'd rather people didn't lean on anything that close - I've seen people trip over barriers etc or kids sit on them etc, but that doesn't change the point that clearly some shows run very happily without barriers. They WILL lean on something and if it isn't the barrier it will be the layout. Maybe I don't get invited to the superior sort of shows that manage without barriers. If I did, I'd still take my own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Jackson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 We've exhibited our layout many times at different venues, only 2 shows provided barriers, and the rest didn't, however this wasn't a problem at all. Most adults are more than happy to stand and watch trains, and when they wanted to lean on something they come down to the fiddle yard and just lean and chat there, no problems at all. The only problem we face is children grabbing the front of the layout but that's not a problem because its only grass and it is very durable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2016 They WILL lean on something and if it isn't the barrier it will be the layout. Well that clearly isn't the experience of several shows which manage without... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 13, 2016 Administrators Share Posted June 13, 2016 Well that clearly isn't the experience of several shows which manage without... Many manage without because barrier provision represents cost and hassle so it's easier not to bother and let the layouts worry about it - as several posts in this thread show they do already. I can't believe I'm the only person to have had problems with people hanging on the front of the layout, adults and kids. I don't consider the front few cm of the model expendable, hence I like to provide something to solve the problem. That few inches of separation from he public doesn't make me any less accessible to chat, any more than only letting visitors around the back or restricting stock handling to myself and my operators unless invited does. Good barriers also aid bending down to get an eye level view if the model. Many people, if they crouch down for this will reach for something to help them get back up and that's a barrier, post or possibly the layout. However, it seems that it's only my layouts that people slouch, lean or behave in anything other than impeccable manner in front of... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Who will you claim off if little johney or Joe Bloggs either damages the layout or knocks a piece of rolling stock on to the floor, I am sure it won't be the person who does the damage more the club running the show. At least a barrier does give a little more protection. I don't believe in exhibition police making sure people don't pass the barrier but do think layout owners should keep an eye on what is going on out front, prevention is better than cure. Has anyone ever had to make a claim due to damage by a member of the public? David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I really dislike barriers personally, as people seem to use them as a place to congregate and chat whilst leaning on them, blocking access to others I've found, particularly at larger shows. Equally perspex screens are not pleasant to view a layout through, they can often distort the view, especially if they've been scuffed in assembly/break down a few times. Barriers can also become a mobility issue, when in a scooter/wheelchair they restrict space that is often already tight further making moving to see a layout that much harder (not helped by afore mentioned comment about congregating viewers). It is always going to be a difficult issue to address though sadly. So for big shows, barriers are probably a neccessity brought about by too many inconsiderate people spoiling it for the rest of us. Some shows expressly avoid use of barriers though and they seem to manage it well enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2016 Most shows that don't have barriers tell you in advance so you have the choice to attend or not. I have been lucky in recent years. I Did have the surfer knocked off a few times on California Coast even with the door spring and rope barriers but later layouts I was a little more careful and we do keep a close eye on stock. Vehicles get a piece of wire through the underside and into the boards to stop light fingers. Some metal barriers have nearly fallen onto us when too many people lean on them. I have not been a fan of perspex as it is easily scratched and gets in the way of viewing. We all expect different things so it is difficult for organiser's and layout owners to find a perfect solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 A barrier is a bit like a white line on a road it is not going to stop anyone crossing it but people know what it is there for and generally it serves its purpose. When viewing a layout a barrier does not make the experience any less than if a layout does not have one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) This shows our current barriers, they were made solid fronted to stop children climbing on them, but parents do tend to use them as seating for the kids and, yes, people do lean on them. The problem is they're heavy and quite time consuming to set up. As I said most of the larger shows we attend provide barriers and it's mainly the smaller club shows which don't. I think sturdy barriers are probably necessary at bigger shows because they're more crowded, but even heavy barriers seem to 'walk' Our current thought is to try the Tensa Barrier type as one of our members has them for his own layout. I don't know if I'm in favour of any system that is attached to the layout as any impact could be transmitted to the layout. Normally we try for two feet between barrier and layout and request this in our layout 'data' sheets which are sent to exhibition managers. When we built Newcastleton we fronted it with perspex sheets, but except for one section where a siding comes very close to the baseboard edge, these have now been removed, partly because they were damaged, but mainly because it spoiled the audience view. chris p bacons offer is very kind by the way, but we're in Edinburgh! Jeremy Edited June 13, 2016 by JeremyC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 new_view.jpg This shows our current barriers, they were made solid fronted to stop children climbing on them, but parents do tend to use them as seating for the kids and, yes, people do lean on them. Rather than making them solid, how about making a railway style paling fence? With the right material it could be lighter, and would still stop kids getting underneath. The pointy, or rounded, tops would stop kids sitting on them, and prevent hard leaning. And they'd look more railway like. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I am wondering why the self styled expert/ know it all/boring f*rt barrier hasn't been invented yet? I'd happily buy 7 meters of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 The Peterborough fences are bleedin' uncomfortable to rest on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 We provide barriers because without them a lot of the layouts I invite would not come. Geoff Endacott 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 For front operated layouts barriers are typically a hazard for the operators tripping over the legs;the best solution I found was to have barriers in front of the fiddle yard to stop light fingers but the rest without barriers. A wandering operator being sufficient to deter anyone leaning on it whilst encouraging discussion with the viewing public. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted June 14, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2016 Many manage without because barrier provision represents cost and hassle so it's easier not to bother and let the layouts worry about it - as several posts in this thread show they do already. I can't believe I'm the only person to have had problems with people hanging on the front of the layout, adults and kids. I don't consider the front few cm of the model expendable, hence I like to provide something to solve the problem. That few inches of separation from he public doesn't make me any less accessible to chat, any more than only letting visitors around the back or restricting stock handling to myself and my operators unless invited does. Good barriers also aid bending down to get an eye level view if the model. Many people, if they crouch down for this will reach for something to help them get back up and that's a barrier, post or possibly the layout. However, it seems that it's only my layouts that people slouch, lean or behave in anything other than impeccable manner in front of... You haven't even mentioned the ones who drop their sandwiches/drinks etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I recall that at show where no barriers were present, a large gentleman came up and leaned with both elbows onto the station forecourt! I am wondering if the remedy is something to do with layout height. ie build the layout at a height that forces the un-barried visitor to not lean on, touch or rest their mug of tea/ rucksack onto the scenic top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I recall that at show where no barriers were present, a large gentleman came up and leaned with both elbows onto the station forecourt! I am wondering if the remedy is something to do with layout height. ie build the layout at a height that forces the un-barried visitor to not lean on, touch or rest their mug of tea/ rucksack onto the scenic top. And then you stop it being visible to the disabled or children. So not a very ideal solution, but then neither are barriers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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