RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2016 'Sir, I have the honour to report in reference to your memo of XXXX that the wheels picked up when I made a normal brake application at the usual spot and unfortunately the buffers of the leading vehicle came into contact with the stop block causing damage to same Your obedient servant ... etc' That reminds me of an incident parking the bus up in the depot, I swung the bus too line up with the last bus in the line and I could see it in the offside mirror and started to reverse until there was a crunch,I had lined meself up with the last but one and thus it was not visible being directly behind me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I would have just pleaded ignorance, after all why wouldnt I sign a siding if I signed all other lines? It wouldnt have been the first time either! Ah, but there's the rub.... pleading ignorance won't do you any good these days! In the current climate there are managers out there who are on a mission to reduce their headcount and will use the slightest infraction against you, it's better to just not give them any ammunition against you. Sad, but largely true I'm afraid. The example I mentioned above about the Groundstaff bloke came about because the manager had been spying on the yard staff from his office window using binoculars...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 'Sir, I have the honour to report in reference to your memo of XXXX that the wheels picked up when I made a normal brake application at the usual spot and unfortunately the buffers of the leading vehicle came into contact with the stop block causing damage to same Your obedient servant ... etc' If I couldnt park a 4 coach train in a 12 coach siding without hitting the blocks I would have removed myself from driving! I do agree that you (and rugd1022) that you have to keep your wits about you but a bit of common sense goes a long way, oh can you remember when common sense was common? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2016 Ah, but there's the rub.... pleading ignorance won't do you any good these days! In the current climate there are managers out there who are on a mission to reduce their headcount and will use the slightest infraction against you, it's better to just not give them any ammunition against you. Sad, but largely true I'm afraid. The example I mentioned above about the Groundstaff bloke came about because the manager had been spying on the yard staff from his office window using binoculars...! Maybe the 'manager' should be sent for an eyesight exam, and doesn't he ever leave the office? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 "No knowledge" Worked for me once Doubt it would nowadays though, too many spies , not just with binoculars but electronic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'm not a driver, so from an outsider's perspective it seems rather daft that you could "know" a route if that's 'fast lines only' or the like. I understand that you have different speed limits to adhere to, and things like poor adhesion areas are not applicable to all lines, but it seems a silly system that allows someone to know the "up main" line but not the parallel "up passenger loop". That kind of thing reduces the flexibility of the whole network, and it's not that flexible to start with. Problem is that the devil is in the detail. There are plenty of things to catch out an unwary driver - short signal sections, poorly aited signals, wrong side sigmals, signal indications for junctions. Thats before you get to things like knowing all the different permissible speeds. Then if you're working passenger trains you'll have braking points for each station (and likely have check speeds to ensure you're braking sufficiently for that stop). All these can change between fast and slow (or relief) lines. And you need to be able to do it in all darkness, fog, torrential rain conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Not saying that the fast and slow lines aren't different, just that a system which allows you to sign Waterloo to Woking via the fast lines only (for example) seems quite absurd. I've been on trains which have had to be put onto the slow in an unusual place (New Malden) due to some disruption, and it would have created further mayhem if the driver had stopped and said "sorry, can't do the slows". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Not saying that the fast and slow lines aren't different, just that a system which allows you to sign Waterloo to Woking via the fast lines only (for example) seems quite absurd. I've been on trains which have had to be put onto the slow in an unusual place (New Malden) due to some disruption, and it would have created further mayhem if the driver had stopped and said "sorry, can't do the slows". Well, as daft as it sounds, at Rugby we have two Drivers who no longer sign 'old line' via Kilsby, not having driven over it for some years they both put reviews in (to refresh their route knowledge on that section) and were promptly refused... down to poor management that one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Maybe the 'manager' should be sent for an eyesight exam, and doesn't he ever leave the office? He's only one rung down from the MD Mike, if you fancy telling him then be my guest...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 He's only one rung down from the MD Mike, if you fancy telling him then be my guest...! Dunno who your MD is nowadays Nidge although I have known several previous rather senior folk in the concern you work for. I do know a few of the senior folk seen/listed in the latest (September) edition of Modern Railways and there's at least one in there who I wouldn't pay in plastic washers let alone wasting brass ones. In BR days some of the daft things they have done in previous jobs would have seen them permanently consigned to a dark corner at the BRB to keep them out of harm's way; it was a lot harder to con experienced senior railway managers in BR days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Not saying that the fast and slow lines aren't different, just that a system which allows you to sign Waterloo to Woking via the fast lines only (for example) seems quite absurd. I've been on trains which have had to be put onto the slow in an unusual place (New Malden) due to some disruption, and it would have created further mayhem if the driver had stopped and said "sorry, can't do the slows". If you sign a 'side' out of Waterloo then you sign all lines even if you rarely work over them, for example Bournemouth crews rarely work over the slow lines. Out of Euston its different and I dont rhink Virgin crews dont sign the slow and/or DC lines,I remember a few years ago there was a bit of a hoo ha because a VWC driver refused to work over one or other of them despite the stock being cleared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 If you sign a 'side' out of Waterloo then you sign all lines even if you rarely work over them, for example Bournemouth crews rarely work over the slow lines. Out of Euston its different and I dont rhink Virgin crews dont sign the slow and/or DC lines,I remember a few years ago there was a bit of a hoo ha because a VWC driver refused to work over one or other of them despite the stock being cleared. I believe the DC Lines were always regarded as 'different' for various reasons - not least the signal aspects north of Chalk Farm (which has changed in more recent years of course) The Slows however are another thing as it is perfectly reasonable regulating to cross a train onto the Slow and can easily happen in the event of a problem such as a broken rail etc. Even Eurostar crews signed the Fasts and Slows so it doesn't say much for Virgin or is their situation a consequence of the Bletchley derailment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The DC lines out of Euston couldn't be considered as part of WCML route knowledge however it is construed. Totally different signalling as well as electrification (even though the non-standard searchlight signals have gone), virtually unheard of for trains to be diverted on or off them, and completely invisible from the main lines for several miles in the Wembley area and between Bushey and Watford. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 I believe the DC Lines were always regarded as 'different' for various reasons - not least the signal aspects north of Chalk Farm (which has changed in more recent years of course) The Slows however are another thing as it is perfectly reasonable regulating to cross a train onto the Slow and can easily happen in the event of a problem such as a broken rail etc. Even Eurostar crews signed the Fasts and Slows so it doesn't say much for Virgin or is their situation a consequence of the Bletchley derailment? The DC Lines do not appear as part of the WCML between Camden and Watford Jn, they have a separate entry. The usual thing when there was disruption south of Watford Jn was to turn back the main line trains and transfer passengers to the DC service if it was still able to run to Euston. Well, as daft as it sounds, at Rugby we have two Drivers who no longer sign 'old line' via Kilsby, not having driven over it for some years they both put reviews in (to refresh their route knowledge on that section) and were promptly refused... down to poor management that one! Diversions via Northampton or Weedon are covered in the Sectional Appendix MD101 - EUSTON TO ARMITAGE JUNCTION (EXCLUSIVE) Hanslope South Jn To Rugby Trains diverted via Northampton. Down and Up trains booked to run via Weedon may be diverted via Northampton without previous warning and Drivers so routed need not observe the requirements of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2. Trains booked to run via Northampton may similarly be diverted via Weedon. Drivers need not observe the requirements of Rule Book, Module S7, Section 1.2, unless their train is booked to call at Northampton and/or Long Buckby. Virgin have at least one daily service booked via Northampton while London Midland's Trent Valley stoppers are booked via Weedon. A manager who refuses to give a driver a refresher over either line whether it be VT, LM or a FOC has no right to be in his job as he doesn't understand the requirements of running that bit of the railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Oh I heartily agree on your last comment there TSE, unfortunately said manager wouldn't allow either of those two Drivers to be taken off booked jobs so they could go and refresh the old line via Kilsby. Happens rather a lot, more so at the smaller depots such as ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 Oh I heartily agree on your last comment there TSE, unfortunately said manager wouldn't allow either of those two Drivers to be taken off booked jobs so they could go and refresh the old line via Kilsby. Happens rather a lot, more so at the smaller depots such as ours. Sound like the FOC type I came across whilst running a junction signalling risk assessment in the early days of privatisation. He said at the meeting that his drivers didn't need Route Knowledge as they only went at 60mph and the line was to be suitable for 125mph, so I asked him what happened when they got a signal for a 20mph turnout. He wasn't accepted as a suitably qualified representative for subsequent meetings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chris116 Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2016 I think a report to CIRUS or whatever the initials are is called for if management will not allow drivers to refresh routes but expect them to drive trains on them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted August 25, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2016 I think a report to CIRUS or whatever the initials are is called for if management will not allow drivers to refresh routes but expect them to drive trains on them http://www.ciras.org.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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