British Rail Mk1 Coaches

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

First and foremost, I hope it is OK to put this up here. 

 

 

Recently I had been looking through RM-Web for BR Mk1 coach info and consists. Turns out there isn't a dedicated thread to Mk1's?! There are multiple smaller threads, i.e. on liveries, specific variants, specific region consists, but no "general" Mk1 thread! Surprising, given they are essential for any model layout with passenger facilities from 1951 onwards, let alone for people interested in what there was and how many there were!

 

I thought I would start this as a dedicated "BR Mk1" thread, for liveries, consists, interesting details etc.

I don't know that much - what I do know comes out of the May 2015 issue of "Model Rail", which has a fascinating set of articles on the BR Mk1 coach - "Masterclass: Mk1 Coaches", "Marking Up" (on detailing Bachmann coaches), "Messing around with Mk 1s (Hornby Mk1 coaches), "Eating Out" (Mk1 catering vehicles). For anyone interested, this magazine is certainly worth buying a back-issue of. 

 

So, I thought I would start this off with some basic info which I have found out over the years - 

The first Mk1 coaches were introduced in 1951. Now I am unaware of which type of coach this was. There are a number of different types of coach, which I will try and cover (there may be some I miss) a bit later on. 

Going by the May 2015 Model Rail, the first type could be the Mk1 FO (First Open, i.e. no compartments) - I am presuming this as it has the earliest diagram no. of the coaches covered, Diagrams 71-73. It also has the earliest coach numbers - number 3000-3002 being the first coaches, followed by 3003-3080 and so on. 

 

Not all coaches followed the same number series, presumably due to different batches. i.e. coach 3720 is a TSO (Tourist Second Open), with 3721 being an SO (Second Open). Later on, it reverts back, with coach 4487 being an SO and 4488 a TSO.

 

A number of coaches were designed.

Gangwayed Passenger vehicles - 

FK (First Corridor)

CK (Composite Corridor)

SK (Second Corridor)

FO (First Open)

SO (Second Open)

TSO (Tourist Second Open)

BFK (Brake First Corridor)

BCK (Brake Composite Corridor)

BSK (Brake Second Corridor)

BSO (Brake Second Open)

 

Non-Gangwayed (Suburban) coaches - 

C (Composite)

CL (Composite Lavatory)

S (Second)

SO (Second Open)

SLO (Second Lavatory Open)

BS (Brake Second)

 

Mk1 Pullman Coaches - 

PFP (Pullman First Parlour)

PSP (Pullman Second Parlour)

PFK (Pullman First Kitchen)

PSK (Pullman Second Kitchen)

Bar Car (No code?)

 

Sleeper Coaches - 

SLF (Sleeper First)

SLSTP (Sleeper Second with Pantry)

SLC (Sleeper Composite)

SLEP (Sleeper Either Class with Pantry, converted from SLSTP)

 

and finally the Non-Passenger vehicles - 

CCT (Covered Carriage Truck)

GUV (General Utility Van)

BG (Brake Gangway)

HB (Horse Box)

FrD (Fruit D)

SPV (Insulated Fish)

CCT (E) (Covered Carriage Truck, Eastern Region)

TCV (Tierweg Car Vehicle)

TPO (Travelling Post Office)

POS (Post Office Storage)

 

EDIT - I knew I had missed something!

Catering Vehicles - 

RU (Restaurant Unclassified)

RKB (Restaurant Kitchen Buffet)

RB (Restaurant Buffet)

RF (Restaurant First)

RFO (Restaurant First Open)

RTO (Restaurant Third Open, redesignated RSO in 1956)

RB(K) (Restaurant Buffet with large kitchen, FK conversions)

RK (Restaurant Kitchen)

RSO (Restaurant Second Open, SO conversions)

RUO (Restaurant Unclassified Opens, SO/TSO conversions)

RMB (Restaurant Mini Buffet?)

 

As for coach combinations, one which has stuck in my head is a BR (S) consist - 

(Loco) - BSK - SK - CK - SK - BSK

 

I am not certain if this is accurate, however I have certainly read it in a few places. 

 

 

I know there are those out there who are far more knowledgeable than me on the subject, so it would be great to see more information on the Mk1 coaches on this thread in the future!

 

Peter

Edited June 22, 2016 by 60012 Commonwealth of Australia

[tamperman36]

If you can get hold of a copy of the book (with extra supplement)  British Railways Mark 1 Coaches by Keith Parkin and the HMRS there is a section in the supplement which gives a selection of train formations from all regions from 1951 to 1990. It also gives details of the coach numbers and loco used on each train.

[Grovenor]

 FrD (Fruit D)

SPV (Insulated Fish)

CCT (E) (Covered Carriage Truck, Eastern Region)

TCV (Tierweg Car Vehicle)

Never seen these classes as Mk1 coaches.

Regards

[chrisf]

Nearly all that anyone could wish to know about the Mk 1 may be found in Keith Parkin's book "British Railways Mk 1 Coaches", published in 1991 and a considerable update on an earlier version.  As the publication date will suggest, the book is long out of print and therefore not all that easy to obtain.  I shudder to think how much second-hand copies command.  By common consent the whole subject of the Mk 1 is very complex!

 

The first two Mk 1s were displayed at Marylebone station in September 1950 and a selection of the first production batches on 15th March 1951.  Sufficient were built at that time to equip a number of trains named in honour of the Festival of Britain, including the Red Rose, Merchant Venturer, Heart of Midlothian, Royal Wessex and William Shakespeare, and some existing trains including the Royal Scot and the Norfolkman.  There was then a hiatus in production due to a shortage of steel but when it resumed it continued until 1964.  The first non-gangwayed Mk 1s appeared in 1954.

 

As Grovenor suggests above, some of the non-passenger carrying vehicles built by and for BR did not conform to the Mk 1 design criteria but they are covered in Parkin for completeness.

 

Chris

[luckymucklebackit]

A previous thread existed discussing Keith Parkin's Book http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52639-br-mk1-coaches-keith-parkins-book/.  The copy I have has a different front cover from those being advertised on various second hand book sites (£84 seems to be the going rate)

 

Contains an interesting link to carriage diagrams http://www.easybuildcoaches.co.uk/TOP/DRAWINGS.html

 

Jim

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Never seen these classes as Mk1 coaches.

Regards

Neither had I, however they were in the magazine under "Non Passenger Vehicles" (or a title like that) so I put them here anyway.

 

Peter

[Rods_of_Revolution]

There's the Mk1 based Inspection Saloons. Three were built at Swindon to Diagram 1/552, numbers 999506, 999508 and 999509, TOPS code QXB.

 

Also there are the peculiar Train Heating Boiler Vans. They are smallest Mk1 based vehicles to be built. I never have found out if they actually ran or where just positioned at termini for preheating stock. Here's a photo at Departmentals: http://www.departmentals.com/photo/70185

 

All the best,

 

Jack

[D1059]

There's the Mk1 based Inspection Saloons. Three were built at Swindon to Diagram 1/552, numbers 999506, 999508 and 999509, TOPS code QXB.

 

Also there are the peculiar Train Heating Boiler Vans. They are smallest Mk1 based vehicles to be built. I never have found out if they actually ran or where just positioned at termini for preheating stock. Here's a photo at Departmentals: http://www.departmentals.com/photo/70185

 

All the best,

 

Jack

 

 

999506

 

Inspection Saloon by Stephen Dance, on Flickr

[hmrspaul]

A previous thread existed discussing Keith Parkin's Book http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52639-br-mk1-coaches-keith-parkins-book/.  The copy I have has a different front cover from those being advertised on various second hand book sites (£84 seems to be the going rate)

 

Contains an interesting link to carriage diagrams http://www.easybuildcoaches.co.uk/TOP/DRAWINGS.html

 

Jim

 

 

Care is needed with Parkin as the second edition (1991) is a serious revision of the first edition.

 

Parkin, Keith (1991) British Railways Mark 1 coaches. Publ Pendragon-Atlantic Historical Model Railway Society 235pp ISBN: 0906899494

 

A couple of weeks ago there were still copies of the supplement available from the HMRS shop.

Parkin, Keith (2006) British Railways Mark 1 coaches Supplement. Historical Model Railway Society 88pp ISBN: 0902835181

 

The Yahoo group British Railways loco-hauled coaching stock since 1948 is the place to learn most about these, especially a vast collection of copies of carriage workings. It is a Restricted Group with 1459 members. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info

 

There used to be a group just for Mark 1s but it has largely died. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/brmk1/info

 

Paul

[Ceptic]

Then, there's the BR Std. Mk.1 based Emus, Demus and Dmmus. (Not covered in the Keith Parkin's 'bibles')

 

 If added to your original list, Peter, it would, probably, need the whole of this first page. 

 

All the best,

Frank.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Ceptic

[balders]

Ashley Butlin's book is also a very useful tome, although covers lots, numbering and disposal locations and conversion dates (where applicable). Used in conjunction with Parkin and Hugh Longworth's books there is a great deal of detailed information about most aspects of MK1 stock.

Edited June 24, 2016 by balders

[corneliuslundie]

The Supplement is still available from the HMRS.

Jonathan

[Dunsignalling]

There's the Mk1 based Inspection Saloons. Three were built at Swindon to Diagram 1/552, numbers 999506, 999508 and 999509, TOPS code QXB.

 

Also there are the peculiar Train Heating Boiler Vans. They are smallest Mk1 based vehicles to be built. I never have found out if they actually ran or where just positioned at termini for preheating stock. Here's a photo at Departmentals: http://www.departmentals.com/photo/70185

 

All the best,

 

Jack

Those Train Heating vans weren't actually built as such, they were converted using redundant horsebox bodies mounted on 12-foot wheelbase wagon underframes.

 

Quite why they didn't just convert complete horseboxes is a mystery - it would surely have been much easier. EDIT: See next post for reason......

 

John

Edited June 24, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[russ p]

The boiler vans were preheat vans when the water tanks were full they were too heavy for mainline running. If they had to transit between locations the tanks had to be drained.

Am I right in thinking those saloons aren't proper mk1 mainline coaches, there is one at the RTC still and it's a 57ft vehicle

[Dunsignalling]

The boiler vans were preheat vans when the water tanks were full they were too heavy for mainline running. If they had to transit between locations the tanks had to be drained.

 

Ah. Never thought of that.

 

It explains the 21t (or 24.5t.) Mineral wagon underframes, the original horsebox ones wouldn't have been man enough.

 

John

[Grovenor]

Am I right in thinking those saloons aren't proper mk1 mainline coaches, there is one at the RTC still and it's a 57ft vehicle

The 57ft chassis waas a std Mk1 item used for BGs and for many of the non-gangway coaches.

Regards

[Focalplane]

Just discovered this thread.  I am building Gauge O Just Like The Real Thing Mark 1s for my 1950s Midlander rake.  The interiors can be detailed to a high standard straight from the kits, included detailed brake/guards area.  But I am nowhere near any preservation lines at the moment so can anyone help me with the first and second/third class seating colours?  I think Humbrol 104 might be a good match for the first class seats but there is nothing close in a matt finish for the dark red standard class seating.  Also, some first class compartments had curtains but again I can't remember what colour they were.

 

I have a copy of Longworth's Mark 1 and 2 coaching stock.  It is a useful book but does not cover such details.

[Horsetan]

A previous thread existed discussing Keith Parkin's Book http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52639-br-mk1-coaches-keith-parkins-book/.  The copy I have has a different front cover from those being advertised on various second hand book sites (£84 seems to be the going rate)

 

Contains an interesting link to carriage diagrams http://www.easybuildcoaches.co.uk/TOP/DRAWINGS.html

Just as well I'm hanging onto mine.

[balders]

Just discovered this thread. I am building Gauge O Just Like The Real Thing Mark 1s for my 1950s Midlander rake. The interiors can be detailed to a high standard straight from the kits, included detailed brake/guards area. But I am nowhere near any preservation lines at the moment so can anyone help me with the first and second/third class seating colours? I think Humbrol 104 might be a good match for the first class seats but there is nothing close in a matt finish for the dark red standard class seating. Also, some first class compartments had curtains but again I can't remember what colour they were.

 

I have a copy of Longworth's Mark 1 and 2 coaching stock. It is a useful book but does not cover such details.

Have a look at this link. Limited photos but they are of an "as original" SK which exists in the US, one of two thought scrapped. As the seating is original, and the the coach unrestored, it must be probably the best template you could get for the original colour.

 

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM5JR2_British_Railway_Coaches_Standish_Depo

 

Regards, Guy

[Focalplane]

Have a look at this link. Limited photos but they are of an "as original" SK which exists in the US, one of two thought scrapped. As the seating is original, and the the coach unrestored, it must be probably the best template you could get for the original colour.

 

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM5JR2_British_Railway_Coaches_Standish_Depo

 

Regards, Guy

 

Thanks, Guy, that is most useful.  At 1:43.5 scale the upholstery pattern will disappear if matt paint is used, so the next stage will be to get a good match.  The photos also give a good indication of the wood panelling used on early Mark 1s, particularly along the corridors.

 

Regards, Paul

[Satan's Goldfish]

4 and a half years later... A couple of mk1 related questions:

 

How many bsk were converted into courier (NNX) vehicles? Everything I've read on them just says 'several'.

 

What were bck intended to be used for and how common were they? Specifically in blue/grey and IC executive liveries. Just seems a bit of an odd vehicle, although ideal for a 2 coach trainset rake with an SO! 

[Ken.W]

49 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

4 and a half years later... A couple of mk1 related questions:

 

What were bck intended to be used for and how common were they? Specifically in blue/grey and IC executive liveries. Just seems a bit of an odd vehicle, although ideal for a 2 coach trainset rake with an SO! 

 

On ECML expresses they were commonly used as part of though portions

 

eg Many Kings X / Edinburgh expresses had a BCK+SK pair on the north end to / from Aberdeen

[Satan's Goldfish]

Cheers Ken that makes sense, hadn't thought of that!

[jbqfc]

12 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

4 and a half years later... A couple of mk1 related questions:

 

How many bsk were converted into courier (NNX) vehicles? Everything I've read on them just says 'several'.

 

 

in the 1989 platform 5 book has  26 80200 to 80225 

[corneliuslundie]

Back on 1972 on when I was commuting from Cambridge there was regularly a downgraded BCK in the rake of the morning up train. There was a group of half a dozen or so of us who had noticed and took advantage of the ex-first class compartment most days. An improvement on the Cravens DMU I had previously used to get to Stevenage.

Jonathan