Does Anyone Make a 4mm Lorry Like This?

[PhilJ W]

There aren't many! Two current kits I know of: Springside RV50 1902 Ariol and Scale Link SLC123 1904 De Dion Boulton tourer. If you push things Scale Link also do a 1906 6hp Rover tourer.

Harbutt's (of Plasticene fame) made a series of plastic kits called 'RepLicars' in the late 1960s which included some early types but the scales varied. It is possible that some of those may have been close to 4mm scale, though some of the larger cars were probably nearer 3mm scale.The pre-1905 models were: 1899 Renault, 1901 Oldsmobile curved dash, 1904 Mercedes Simplex and 1905 Vauxhall Hanson (taxi cab). Of all of them, the 1899 Renault is most likely to be closest to 4mm scale (I'm not 100% sure, but I might have some/most of the parts of one of these - if I have I'll try to investigate the prototype and see if we can get some dimensions). They were also used as promotional models by Jet Petroleum.

They were 'fit the box' scale, or to be more accurate 'fit the sprue'. In fact the Oldsmobile was very close to 00 scale. The Mercedes was also suitable if you changed the drivers seat. A bit to late for your period but the 1908 model T Ford was to about 1/78 scale.

[BernardTPM]

There's a little bit on the 1905 Vauxhall Hanson cab in Vauxpedia. They built five of them, apparently (about a third of the  way down). By the looks of it a fair bit of that kit could be used to make a much more normal Vauxhall of the period though (not that it would be easy to find, though annoying I had two unmade ones that were lost when I moved).

[BG John]

The Hansom with weird driving position would be a real talking point, but I doubt if one would have found it's way to a sleepy part of the West Country! I think a conventional car would be more suitable.

[BernardTPM]

Hmm, plenty of size info on the little 1899 Renault here and here. Now if I still have the bits and can find them, I'll be able to work out the scale.

[BernardTPM]

I found my old Oldsmobile (converted to a 009 inspection trolley) and measured the wheelbase as 30.5mm. Now one of those sites has a lot of nice close-ups of the kits in their sprues so, by superimposing one on the other I can get a rough idea of the relative sizes, assuming the outer run of the sprue is, in all cases, identical, which does seem likely.

So, combining the information from the websites mentioned before with the estimation from the sprue pictures the little Renault is somewhere approx. 1:56 scale. The Oldsmobile is a little more difficult as sources seem to disagree on the wheelbase, figures ranging from 60 in. to 69 in. however this looks a reasonable source. That would make the scale 1:55, almost identical to the Renault, so both are really small cars in modern terms (or even by those made a decade later). Of course, if it is actually a 1901-3 as opposed to a 1903-7 then the scale would be 1:50, but that just seems wrong. I'm pretty sure it is the 1903 model as it has artillery wheels while the 1901 has wire spoked wheels, as well as appearing to have a relatively shorter wheelbase.

I might look at the other two pre-1905 kits later.

[BG John]

At least in the longer term my 4mm modelling will be going back to the the pre car age, so I only have to worry about finding horse drawn vehicles to the right scale!

[BernardTPM]

The Mercedes was fairly easy as I have an Airfix 1/32nd version; 75mm so 2400mm w.b. (nicely rounded). I estimate the model at 33.25mm so that would be about 1:72.2 scale - perhaps ideal for a WW1 airfield?

The Vauxhall is proving trickier. I think there may be an error in the wheelbase figure on Vauxpedia where it is initially given as 69" for the 12-14hp (which is what the Hanson cab version was based on), but then goes on to say for the 7-9hp version "the wheelbase shrank to just 69 inches". Now, assuming the artillery wheels are 28", judging from the various photos the wheelbase could be around 89-96", which makes me suspect the first 69" is a typing error. I estimated the model wheelbase to be 28.5mm, so if the prototype wheelbase is 96" then the scale is about 1:85.5 and if 69" then 1:61.5, but because of these doubts mean it could be any of the scales between those limits. Does anyone have a 1905 Vauxhall 9hp owner's handbook handy?

[PhilJ W]

There was a magazine article where someone built a 00 model Milnes-Daimler double deck bus using the front end including wheels from the Harbutts Mercedes.

[colin penfold]

Very timely and interesting article about vehicles of this era in MRJ Issue 250. The article recommends http://www.wdmodels.com/ who produce resin kits of WW1 lorries and the old bill bus in 1/76.

[otherplanet]

Roden do a WW1 Model T ambulance, along with a few others, and have just released a Vauxhall D type car.

 

KeilKraft also did - cheaper and much poorer detail

 

 

There are a lot of military models of various vehicles which had civilian versions

too many to mention, but if you feel enthusiastic this website lists just about all of them

http://henk.fox3000.com/index2.htm

 

If your prepared to go slightly underscale (ie HO) then woodland scenics do several variants of a cast metal kit 1914 diamond T which is probably the closest to your original picture

 

Hope that helps

[BG John]

I've got all I need now thanks.

[phil_sutters]

Thanks Bernard. It looks as though the RepLicars are rare, and from a couple of links I found probably 1:87 scale. The Springside or Scale Link ones could be ideal though.

I had a number of the Replicars - they were tiny - but they looked OK in the background. They were quite well detailed for the size and for the 1960s.

Harbutts factory was in Bathampton and we lived in north Somerset so quite a few local shops stocked the kits.

[phil_sutters]

Does anyone know what scale the Corgi WW1 Old Bill Bus is? It looks small for 1/76th. Is it like the old Matchbox one - designed to fit a box, rather than to a recognised scale? Some of them were converted to lorries. If they are a bit small they could convert into a smaller truck.

I now realize that what I was looking at was the Oxford Old Bill, of which there seem to have been myriad liveries - but it is to 1/76th scale. At around a fiver it looks like a reasonable donor for some 1920s trucks and vans. Given how many seem to have been produced, there should be some in the secondhand market.

[BG John]

I now realize that what I was looking at was the Oxford Old Bill, of which there seem to have been myriad liveries - but it is to 1/76th scale. At around a fiver it looks like a reasonable donor for some 1920s trucks and vans. Given how many seem to have been produced, there should be some in the secondhand market.

Most on eBay are over a fiver

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=oxford+old+bill+bus&_sop=15

[phil_sutters]

Most on eBay are over a fiver

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=oxford+old+bill+bus&_sop=15

Is that a case of people buying up 'collectables' in the hope of making a bob or two? I shall look in the local charity shops - as usual!

[BernardTPM]

The Vauxhall is proving trickier. I think there may be an error in the wheelbase figure on Vauxpedia where it is initially given as 69" for the 12-14hp (which is what the Hanson cab version was based on), but then goes on to say for the 7-9hp version "the wheelbase shrank to just 69 inches". Now, assuming the artillery wheels are 28", judging from the various photos the wheelbase could be around 89-96", which makes me suspect the first 69" is a typing error.

Seems it was a typing error as, from another printed source (An old Vauxhall publication) it should be 6' 9". If the estimated wheelbase measurement of 28.5mm is correct then the scale is 1:72.2. It's also clear that a conversion to the standard 1905 9hp model should be quite feasible (perhaps the left-over Hanson part could be made into a horse drawn contraption!).

[PhilJ W]

The Mercedes was fairly easy as I have an Airfix 1/32nd version; 75mm so 2400mm w.b. (nicely rounded). I estimate the model at 33.25mm so that would be about 1:72.2 scale - perhaps ideal for a WW1 airfield?

The Vauxhall is proving trickier. I think there may be an error in the wheelbase figure on Vauxpedia where it is initially given as 69" for the 12-14hp (which is what the Hanson cab version was based on), but then goes on to say for the 7-9hp version "the wheelbase shrank to just 69 inches". Now, assuming the artillery wheels are 28", judging from the various photos the wheelbase could be around 89-96", which makes me suspect the first 69" is a typing error. I estimated the model wheelbase to be 28.5mm, so if the prototype wheelbase is 96" then the scale is about 1:85.5 and if 69" then 1:61.5, but because of these doubts mean it could be any of the scales between those limits. Does anyone have a 1905 Vauxhall 9hp owner's handbook handy?

 

 

Seems it was a typing error as, from another printed source (An old Vauxhall publication) it should be 6' 9". If the estimated wheelbase measurement of 28.5mm is correct then the scale is 1:72.2. It's also clear that a conversion to the standard 1905 9hp model should be quite feasible (perhaps the left-over Hanson part could be made into a horse drawn contraption!).

I have obtained one of these kits, looks good if a bit fiddly. I'm looking into making a van/ambulance version using the Merit/Peco horse drawn van body.

[BernardTPM]

Rare or not, I've just bought a lot of six different JET Petrol (Harbutt's RepLicars) models for £3.45 including postage. Among them is the Vauxhall, so I was able to measure the wheelbase - it's 27mm, which is exactly right for 4mm scale (6' 9").