More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Nick Lawson]

On 15/11/2023 at 08:47, Compound2632 said:

Quite some distance from Cleckheaton to Kilnhurst and nothing there on the partnership with Mitchell

The South Yorkshire Times of 4 Dec 1925 recorded the passing of Mrs J.E.H Drabble, including:

 

"Mrs Drabble, who was 83 years of age, was twice married. Her first husband was Mr William Henry Mitchell, whom she accompanied to Kilnhurst in the year 1886, when he established, in partnership with the late Mr Henry Ellison, the very successful tar distilleries known as Ellison and Mitchell Ltd, until a few years ago, when they were merged into the Yorkshire Tar Distilleries Combine."

 

So Mitchell took care of the Kilnhurst end. He died a few years later, leaving a young family but a son later  became a director of Yorkshire Tar Distillers.

 

The same paper recorded on 18 July of that year, that the late Mr Henry Ellison of Morecombe and Cleckheaton,  had left an estate with "net personalty" of £216,896.  Where there's muck...

 

Earlier newspapers contain some lurid stories of industrial accidents etc which add much more colour to the saga.

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, 41516 said:

Following a photo on a NatPres thread, a 2021 photo - So it's been worked on recently to get finished off.

 

I believe it has been fully painted up now and is back outside.

[41516]

10 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

I believe it has been fully painted up now and is back outside.

 

That's where we started -  see the video posted by @jamie92208

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, 41516 said:

That's where we started 

 

I was aware of two restored D299, one at Butterley:

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9848;

this also has oil axleboxes and both side brakes (or at least the vee hangers for them) with long brake levers; and one at the Avon Valley Railway:

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6419;

which has 10A axleboxes and short brake lever(s).

 

I have corresponded with an MRS member who has been involved in Butterley wagon restorations about the one there; the number comes from a later Midland wagon that was beyond restoration.

 

I have had no response from the Avon Valley Railway from an enquiry via their website.

 

I had missed this one owing to the 1910 date in the register.

[Aire Head]

1 hour ago, 41516 said:

 

That's where we started -  see the video posted by @jamie92208

Oops!

[65179]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I was aware of two restored D299, one at Butterley:

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9848;

this also has oil axleboxes and both side brakes (or at least the vee hangers for them) with long brake levers; and one at the Avon Valley Railway:

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6419;

which has 10A axleboxes and short brake lever(s).

 

I have corresponded with an MRS member who has been involved in Butterley wagon restorations about the one there; the number comes from a later Midland wagon that was beyond restoration.

 

I have had no response from the Avon Valley Railway from an enquiry via their website.

 

I had missed this one owing to the 1910 date in the register.

 

I saw the AVR one in May this year:

 

 

Simon

[figworthy]

9 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Not as off topic as it might appear.  A few minutes in at 8:38 a Midland 5 p, ank wagon,or at least one painted as such, appears grounded at the south end of the shed. Is this a lonely survivor. 

 

Ahem

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

Ahem

 

Amen.

 

In your photo, it has a D-shaped numberplate, introduced in 1913. Unlikely to be an original plate, though, let alone original to this wagon.

[Compound2632]

On 15/11/2023 at 15:04, Compound2632 said:

This poses a problem, as I want to re-number the EFE wagon, partly because 11111 is a bit corny, but chiefly because according to Southern Wagons Vol. 1, it was built in 1903 - and with plain one-sided brake gear. This has led me down a break gear rabbit-hole, with a rather technical and as yet unresponded to question in the relevant topic in the EFE sub-forum:

 

Well, one could hardly ask for a more authoritative response:

 

 

[Compound2632]

Oh look, tariff vans:

 

 

[Embedded link to post in a Facebook group "Rail Thing - Lost Locos and Rolling Stock". Apologies for the Kruger.]

[Dave Hunt]

Those things have to be the ugliest British locomotives ever made.

Dave

[Compound2632]

11 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

Those things have to be the ugliest British locomotives ever made.

 

Yes, I apologised.

 

You don't think Johnson gave Dean a backhander - "Do something so folks will stop complaining about my Belpaires"?

[Rail-Online]

I wonder where the photos were taken, I thought that Krugers only worked on the GW main line, in which case why would a MR Tariff van (or two) be there off their own system?

 

Tony

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, Rail-Online said:

I wonder where the photos were taken, I thought that Krugers only worked on the GW main line, in which case why would a MR Tariff van (or two) be there off their own system?

 

It could be any number of places where the two companies intersected: Bristol, Gloucester, Worcester, Hereford, Evesham, Wolverhampton, Dudley... Of those, Bristol would be the one if the Krugers really were confined to the main line (i.e. London - Bristol - Exeter I suppose). Does anyone recognise the chimney? Or know more of the wanderings of the Krugers?  

[MrWolf]

13 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

Those things have to be the ugliest British locomotives ever made.

Dave

 

That's apparently why they got their nickname Kruger, after the leader of the Boers who we were having a bit of a scrap with at the time.

 

I like them because they're so damned ugly!

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

That's apparently why they got their nickname Kruger, after the leader of the Boers who we were having a bit of a scrap with at the time.

 

For reference, Paul Kruger in 1896, at the age of 70:

 

 

[Embedded link to Wikimedia Commons.]

 

No uglier than any other elderly late 19th century politician?

[phil_sutters]

GWR 4-6-0 no.36 was a one-off heavy goods loco built, in 1896, to work the Severn tunnel line. It had a more conventional outline. 4-6-0 2601, shown above, was again a one-off, built in 1899 and a development of 36. The remaining nine Krugers were 2-6-0s built in 1902/3. This information is courtesy of Railway Magazine April 1928*, 'Modern Locomotive Practice on the GWR'. So maybe the Krugers reached wherever the Severn Tunnel coal trains went.

That half-year volume is the only one I have, but I knew I had seen a Kruger somewhere and that seemed a likely place.

Edited November 18, 2023 by phil_sutters

[MrWolf]

32 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

For reference, Paul Kruger in 1896, at the age of 70:

 

 

[Embedded link to Wikimedia Commons.]

 

No uglier than any other elderly late 19th century politician?

 

No, but when you're fighting against them, any opportunity to mock them is taken.

Traditionally opposing heads of state and military have been reduced to comedic figures either to reinforce their status as the bad guy or reduce their fear impact.

Everyone from Richard III to Osama bin Laden.

[Northroader]

“Mum,mum, who’s Kruger???”

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

“Mum,mum, who’s Kruger???”

 

Bogeyman of the year, 1899.

[Schooner]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

No uglier than any other elderly late 19th century politician?

 

Physically, politically or morally?

[WFPettigrew]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

You don't think Johnson gave Dean a backhander - "Do something so folks will stop complaining about my Belpaires"?

That or they were more advanced with AI in 1899 than we previously realised. 

 

"Alexa, please design me a steam locomotive.  It must feature outside frames, a combustion chamber Belpaire firebox, lots of springs, and be both clearly Great Western in appearance and also looking like it was drawn by a four year old with an odd dominance of the vertical over the horizontal in their drawings"

[Adam88]

I would imagine that there was a high level directive banning them from running during the hours of daylight in order to spare the sensitivities of anyone who might accidentally see one.  The consequence being, of course, that to this very day little is known about their movements.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Adam88

[Compound2632]

I really should have cropped that photo so as just to home in on the tariff vans...

[corneliuslundie]

An obvious prototype for the next Accurascale model.

Jonathan

PS I shan't be buying one.