More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[MarcD]

I will dig out a photo. If you have a copy of southern railway wagons vol 1 there is one in there.

Marc

[Compound2632]

57 minutes ago, MarcD said:

I will dig out a photo. If you have a copy of southern railway wagons vol 1 there is one in there.

 

I do, so I suppose this id the photo of No. 9 that I mentioned in my post?

 

Maggs' book also has an end-on view of a cattle wagon, in a photo inside the carriage & wagon shop at Highbridge, plate 6. From what one can see of the side, it has a number beginning with 8 - might just be 8. The end is marked "Length 18 ft" and it has the same markings for the partition positions. After close peering, I think it does have four gaps in the sides - so it seems to be the same type as No. 9.

 

Stephen Austin, Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway: a View from the Past, p. 65, has a one-and-a-half cattle wagons in the background, but they're the later Midland type with lower rail and two bars to the 'windows'. Likewise p. 90 - although the earlier type, one can see it has gaps all the way up. Interesting to see some limewash leaking through the end planking, near the top!

Edited May 21 by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

Here's a neat example of how the various sources of information can sometimes add up nicely rather than leaving one scratching one's head:

 

In November 1891, the Somerset & Dorset Joint Committee approved the recommendation of the Officers that , in the next renewal of goods wagons, 40 be constructed as box wagons at an extra cost of £15 each, chargeable to capital [Joint Committee minute 1814, Officers minute 4015]. 

 

The Returns of Working Stock in the Joint Committee's  half-yearly Reports and Accounts shows:

                                              31/10/91 30/04/92 31/10/92 30/04/93

Goods and Coal Wagons        739          726           708          699

Covered Goods Wagons           40            53             71            80

 

Whilst in the report on capital expenditure we find:

                                              31/10/91 30/04/92 31/10/92 30/04/93

Additional Box Wagons                         £195        £270        £135

 

This ties in with Johnson's 1888 recommendation of goods wagon renewal at around 52 per year, given that the peak rate of box wagon building was 18 in the half-year ending 31 Oct 1892, if one supposes that the about eight other wagons of other sorts were also renewed in that period. At this period, carriage renewals were running at about eight per year, according to Johnson's 1888 recommendation. So this gives one an idea of the capacity of Highbridge Works, turning out a wagon a week and a carriage every six weeks or so, along with dealing with repairs.

 

These box vans were presumably the rather charming earlier type of Road Van, that pre-dated the Derby and S.J. Claye-built ones of 1896-99:

 

 

[MRSC 61796, compressed.]

 

Edited May 22 by Compound2632
Added picture

[DenysW]

19 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The company's minutes record 25 ordered from Shackleford & Ford in 1865, on the never-never (15 years' redemption, @DenysW); the other 40 are a bit of a mystery but it seems there may have been some dual-purpose open and cattle wagons - there was a HMRS Journal article on these.

As discussed on the Midland thread, is there the extra possibility that some were broad gauge?

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, DenysW said:

As discussed on the Midland thread, is there the extra possibility that some were broad gauge?

 

It is clear that the Somerset Central never owned any broad gauge stock. It was leased to and worked by the Bristol & Exeter from opening in August 1854 until February 1862. The third rail had been laid and the first standard gauge locomotives an rolling stock ordered in 1861; the Bristol & Exeter continued to exercise running powers for a daily passenger train between Bristol and Wells and goods train to Cole, until 1868. The broad gauge rail was lifted around 1870. [R. Atthill, The Somerset & Dorset Railway (David & Charles, 1967) pp. 32-36.]

 

The Midland inherited broad gauge stock from the Bristol & Gloucester, and even built some as renewals, but by the late 1850s was desperate to find anyone to take it off their hands - the Bristol & Exeter wouldn't take it and a couple of attempts at selling it at auction fell flat.

[MarcD]

This is a photo from the SR wagons vol1

 

[MarcD]

Just noticed that I stuffed up the door. I will correct it and send you a new body Stephen.

Marc

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, MarcD said:

This is a photo from the SR wagons vol1

 

Yes, that's the one I've been talking about. I was thinking you might have independent evidence for the differences between your body and this photo.

Edited May 22 by Compound2632

[Andy Vincent]

2 hours ago, MarcD said:

Just noticed that I stuffed up the door. I will correct it and send you a new body Stephen.

Marc

 

On a day for 'confessions', I have also noticed an anomaly on the end door of D351 so will also send Stephen updated ones. If anyone else has one from expoEM then just drop me a PM.

 

At least 3D printed wagons make it easy to improve and update designs as information or feedback emerges.

[richbrummitt]

On 21/05/2024 at 11:09, Chas Levin said:

 

Very handy painting stands you have there: are they commercial, or homemade?

Home-brew. Not sure how well they would work for larger scales with increased mass. 

[Chas Levin]

15 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

Home-brew. Not sure how well they would work for larger scales with increased mass. 

Excellent design though, adaptable methinks to larger scales...

[Compound2632]

The most complete wagon in the pile of Ratio LNWR bits is this D62 ballast wagon, seen here posed in front of another ExpoEM purchase, the London Road Models kit for an earlier type of LNWR ballast wagon that did not survive to make it into the Wagon Diagram Book - actually making it a bit touch-and-go for 1902! See LNWR Wagons Vol 3, p. 82 and p. 91.

 

 

This Ratio model is out of period for me too, in the other direction. Apart from the later style axleboxes and brake, the lettering PWD for Permanent Way Division is later too. According to LNWR Wagons Vol 3, this came in in 1908, when the Permanent Way Division adopted 100 ballast wagons, but according to LNWR Liveries, it wasn't until 1913, when 400 wagons were transferred from revenue traffic. If the latter story is true, then wagons lettered PWD should not have diamonds.

 

Otherwise, from 1889, ballast wagons were lettered and numbered for their respective divisions, as detailed in both books mentioned above. This came up the other day on the LNWR Society's Facebook group, in relation to this photo:

 

 

 which shows a wagon allocated to the Southern Division, based at Watford.

 

For my purposes, a want wagons allocated to the Birmingham and Walsall Division, lettered BD, as this one I made earlier:

 

 

I should have enough for a train of six or seven ballast wagons, though a snag was lack of suitably-sized 'B' transfers - on this wagon, I think I used two 'P's to make each 'B'. The lettering should be repeated on one end, along with the divisional numberplate:

 

 

Also, how to justify a LNW ballast train on a Midland line with LNW running powers?

[WFPettigrew]

27 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

how to justify a LNW ballast train on a Midland line with LNW running powers

Depends on what the LNWR was using its powers to reach, I would have thought?  If the powers were used to run along a MR line to reach a certain (MR) station for passenger and/or goods traffic, then its harder to see the justification.  But if the LNW was able to access its own metals at some point further along the line, then surely you should be fine?

 

Alternatively ape the Furness and Midland Joint, where the MR ran all the trains, and the FR did the maintenance so the only trains it ran were ballast trains. 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

[corneliuslundie]

I posted this query on an SECR wagon thread but have had no answer.

It is about the lettering of an SE&CR 3-plank open (ex SER). The kit instructions say that the tare weight was on the right hand side under the number but the three photographs in the Southern Wagons volume seem to have the tare just right of centre, also on the bottom plank. But there is something to the left in the photos which I cannot read. Any offers please?

Also, the HMRS Southern and constituents transfer sheet has the letters SE&CR in the correct size but not the numbers  The only ones on the sheet are a little small and too light. Any suggestions where I can find fairly bold numbers about 3 mm high?

You may be asking why a Rhymney/GWR modeller is building a SECR wagon. Well it is only my second. I just need to find a suitable load now to be delivered from the wilds of Kent.

Jonathan

[wagonman]

5 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 

You may be asking why a Rhymney/GWR modeller is building a SECR wagon. Well it is only my second. I just need to find a suitable load now to be delivered from the wilds of Kent.

Jonathan

 

Hops for the local brewery? Well, that's my excuse... (yes I know they're more likely to come from Worcester).

[Compound2632]

12 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

You may be asking why a Rhymney/GWR modeller is building a SECR wagon. Well it is only my second. I just need to find a suitable load now to be delivered from the wilds of Kent.

 

Goods imported from France via Dover or Folkestone? Champagne for Mme. Patti?

[Compound2632]

The last installment of my ExpoEM purchases arrived yesterday from Cambrian - their D664 van. Another out of  period vehicle but like the Mousa opens destined for the display stand.  White box, so no photo for now!

[jamie92208]

14 hours ago, wagonman said:

 

Hops for the local brewery? Well, that's my excuse... (yes I know they're more likely to come from Worcester).

When I did research about Woodlesford I talked to an old employee from Bentley Yorkshire Brewery. That was rail connected next the station.  They got hops from Kent, grain from various places and a considerable amount of imported spirits for their tied houses. Obviously some amber nectar from north of the border but brandy could well have come via Dover. 

 

Jamie

 

 

[billbedford]

21 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

You may be asking why a Rhymney/GWR modeller is building a SECR wagon. Well it is only my second. I just need to find a suitable load now to be delivered from the wilds of Kent.

 

Deals from Deal?

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Deals from Deal?

 

Ideal.

[WFPettigrew]

2 hours ago, billbedford said:

Deals from Deal?

Sandwiches from Sandwich?

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Sandwiches from Sandwich?

 

Remember that smalls would be transhipped. Need a wagon load of sarnies. But as we have seen way uptrend biscuits were dispatched by the wagonload from Huntley and Palmers, Reading - but in wagons of the destination companies. 

Edited May 24 by Compound2632

[WFPettigrew]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

wagon load of

 

Grain from Grain? 

 

Leads from Leeds?

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

I assume that no-ne knows the answer to the question about livery.

That's OK then. If no-one here knows I am very unlikely to be told I have got it wrong.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

I assume that no-ne knows the answer to the question about livery.

That's OK then. If no-one here knows I am very unlikely to be told I have got it wrong.

Jonathan

 

Have you contacted the SE&CR Society?