For those who like Aircraft pictures

[Martino]

3 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

There was one which used to attend airshows here in the UK as I remember seeing it. 

It crashed in 1996.......   https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=18913

 

I think this must have been the Mosquito in question.  This was at a Booker/Wycombe Air Park air show in, I think, 1968.  I must get around to rescanning this slide and cleaning it up. Hunter F4 in the foreground.  I think (having search the web) it’s static preserved in Jordan.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 03/09/2023 at 09:23, PMP said:

Yesterday I was at LHR and this piece of this thread reminded me of the first time I went there. 21/01/1976. That was the first commercial flight of Concord with the simultaneous Paris takeoff.

 

Just a few months ago, for some work-related reason, I had drive round the LHR southern perimiter road. I remember the excitement at seeing a Concorde on the tarmac outside the BA hangers.

 

Still visible here

https://www.bing.com/maps/?cp=51.466785~-0.433077&lvl=19.2&style=a

 

Friends have visited G-BOAF, the one in Filton, and said what a great day out it was.

https://aerospacebristol.org/last-concorde

[rob D2]

3 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Thanks, not seen that before.  From the report...

 

 

Not sure whether it's fair to call that "Pilot error"? Or lack of adequate training on the type?

Is it a problem inherent on the type or that specific airframe ? very bad time to

lose power up there at the apex of the wing over 

[rob D2]

4 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Here's the people who are funding the build of a new one. 🙂

https://www.peoplesmosquito.org.uk/

 

And the people doing the build

https://retrotec-ltd.co.uk/

 

Speaking personally, I rate the Mosquito the best of all our WW2 aircraft. In terms of loss-rate, one of the most succesfull as well. Perhaps so-forgotten by most people because no flightworthy examples ever survived to be in the UK public's attention.

 

 

The website I find a little confusing . They talk about the “ restoration “ as well as building . I’m not sure if it’s completely new or a restoration 

[Sitham Yard]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That happened to me on my 40th birthday treat, which was a flight in a Dragon Rapide with Air Atlantique. Because I'm not exactly underweight, I had to sit up front just behind the pilot's right shoulder - what a shame!

Although I have no pictures I have a story from, I think, 1964 involving a Dragon Rapide and being weighed. Hopefully I have not told it before here.

 

My parents and I were going to the Scilly Isles for two weeks. Having family friends with a guest house in nearby Ottery St Mary we were flying from Exeter Airport. I had not flown before, not sure about my parents.

 

Check in at the airport and the first surprise was to be weighed. The second was to be told, while having coffee, " we will go when you are ready"! We three were the only passengers.

 

The flight was to call at Plymouth to pick up another couple. Because of this we flew relatively low over Dartmoor, feeling every bump, with the expected consequences for all three of us, not just my mother. Not unexpected for her as her claim to fame was being sea sick on the Gosport Ferry but that's another story involving two passing destroyers.  Having collected the Plymouth passengers a nice flight to the largest island St Mary's in bright sunshine.

 

After two weeks of mixed weather the same five passengers arrived at the airport in overcast weather to find staff on the balcony of the traditional Control Tower listening and looking. The airport was on a bit of a plateau and the cloud base was low. Word came that the incoming aircraft had missed and was going round again. I think the only way he got in was to fly close to the sea and climb up to the airport when he found the island.

 

We were told firstly, that the couple for Plymouth would have to fly to Exeter as they could not get into Plymouth because of the cloud and secondly, in order to get enough height to fly over the cloud they could not take our luggage! A nice flight above cloud followed and we saw a second aircraft flying out to collect the luggage. Ours was delivered to Ottery that evening, what happened to the couple from Plymouth and their luggage I have no idea. 

Andrew 

[Barry Ten]

Although I didn't take any pics, there was an absolutely gorgeous (and huge) Rapide at this weekend's Large Model Association show at Much Marcle, near Ledbury. It flew like a dream and to suitable musical accompaniment over the PA.

[durham light infantry]

1 hour ago, Martino said:

 

I think this must have been the Mosquito in question.  This was at a Booker/Wycombe Air Park air show in, I think, 1968.  I must get around to rescanning this slide and cleaning it up. Hunter F4 in the foreground.  I think (having search the web) it’s static preserved in Jordan.

 

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Is it a problem inherent on the type or that specific airframe ? very bad time to

lose power up there at the apex of the wing over 

 

No, that's a bomber version. RR299 was a TIII. The loss of power was a temporary fault in the carburettor of the port engine, you can see the puff of black smoke just before the critical moment. The pilot had regained control but unfortunately too low to prevent the crash. Negative g cut outs in Merlin engines were cured by Miss Schillings orifice, a simple washer in the carburettor and standard fitment after it's invention.

 

RR299 was maintained and looked after very thoroughly by BAe and it's predecessors. The chief engineer unfortunately was in the right hand seat when it crashed. The greatest irony was the RR299 was going to be donated to the BBMF at the end of the 1996 airshow season.

[Metr0Land]

Afraid I don't have much in the way of Mosquito pics.

 

RR299 at Hatfield Family Day July 1971

A difficult to phot shot of USAAF Mosquito at USAF museum dayton OH, July 2006 - it's painted as NS519 but is actually RS709

A slide donated to me of TW117 at Farnborough early 60's This went on to appear at the RAF Museum and is now in Bodo, Norway.

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

The website I find a little confusing . They talk about the “ restoration “ as well as building . I’m not sure if it’s completely new or a restoration 

 

It's not you. I've been signed-up to their email newsletters for about three years, they always talk about “restoration“. Then their videos show them building completely new moulds for a completely new fusalage. Maybe "restoration“ sounds better than "new/replica"? Or it's a "restoration“ if they use some original parts like the Merlin engines?

[Johann Marsbar]

The three US based Mosquitos that I've seen in Museums over there.

 

Oshkosh, WI.....

 

 

Dayton, OH......

 

 

and the "Black hole of Calcutta" as far as photography is concerned, the Flying Heritage Museum in Everett, WA......

 

 

I've had to lighten that image up quite a bit!      That is a flying example which was restored in New Zealand.

 

EDIT:   I've seen one in the museum at Ottawa in Canada as well......

 

 

.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Johann Marsbar
added photo

[Kris]

4 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:

 

 

After two weeks of mixed weather the same five passengers arrived at the airport in overcast weather to find staff on the balcony of the traditional Control Tower listening and looking. The airport was on a bit of a plateau and the cloud base was low. Word came that the incoming aircraft had missed and was going round again. I think the only way he got in was to fly close to the sea and climb up to the airport when he found the island.

This is the south end of St Mary's runway. Quite a slope. The photo was taken from the public footpath that goes within 5ft of the end of the turning area and is controlled by traffic lights. 

 

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Here's the people who are funding the build of a new one. 🙂

https://www.peoplesmosquito.org.uk/

 

And the people doing the build

https://retrotec-ltd.co.uk/

 

Speaking personally, I rate the Mosquito the best of all our WW2 aircraft. In terms of loss-rate, one of the most succesfull as well. Perhaps so-forgotten by most people because no flightworthy examples ever survived to be in the UK public's attention.

 

 

I only ever saw one - at Salisbury Hall in the early days.

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Not sure whether it's fair to call that "Pilot error"? Or lack of adequate training on the type?

Neither, in my opinion. If it was a "historic problem" then it should have been fixed.

[Johann Marsbar]

Seeing the earlier mention of St Marys airport on the Scilly Isles on this thread, here's a few photos I took there on a day trip back in August 1999...

 

 

 

I'd got there using one of these from Penzance though......

 

[55020]

4 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Seeing the earlier mention of St Marys airport on the Scilly Isles on this thread, here's a few photos I took there on a day trip back in August 1999...

 

I'd got there using one of these from Penzance though......

 

 

"One of these" - it's a thing of beauty 😂

 

I have many hours flying 'FJ, although not to the Scillies but out of Scotland to the rigs.  I did take one S61 (G-ATBJ) to St Mary's for a compasss swing in 2002, after flying it from Aberdeen to Penzance.

 

 

Steve

Edited September 5, 2023 by 55020

[Johann Marsbar]

1 minute ago, 55020 said:

 

"One of these" - it's a thing of beauty 😂

 

I have many hours flying 'FJ, although not to the Scilies but out of Scotland to the rigs.  I did take one S61 (G-ATBJ) to St Mary's for a compasss swing in 2002, after flying it from Aberdeen to Penzance.

 

 

Steve

 

From my notes, looks like I went out on G-BCER and came back on G-BFFJ and was certainly a trip worth doing. That's the only Commercial helicopter operation that I've been on so far, the other two being a (short) pleasure flight from Old Warden in the 1970's and the other a Hungarian Airforce Mil-17 for a somewhat longer chartered pleasure flight in Hungary in 1997.

[durham light infantry]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Neither, in my opinion. If it was a "historic problem" then it should have been fixed.

 

As has been explained, the "historic problem" is a myth that has persisted since 1940, despite a solution being devised and fitted since 1941.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling's_orifice

 

From the AAIB report, not an enthusiast website quoting a wrong  50 year old wrongly remembered half truth;

 

"The Merlin's reputation for cutting under negative g conditions had endured since the beginning of 
the Second World War. Curiously,the fact that a successful carburettor modification had been 
developed(and incorporated on the subject aircraft) to remedy the problem had largely been 
forgotten. "
 

The pilot was an experienced professional test pilot employed by BAe, he had full training and experience including asymetric flying. The man responsible for maintaining the aircraft was in the navigators seat.

 

In short, it was an unfortunate accident with a fully experienced aircrew flying a properly maintained and serviced aircraft. Please stop speculating and perpetrating an urban myth. No wonder people believe the internet over hard facts.

Edited September 5, 2023 by durham light infantry
AAIB not RAIB

[55020]

1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

From my notes, looks like I went out on G-BCER and came back on G-BFFJ and was certainly a trip worth doing. That's the only Commercial helicopter operation that I've been on so far, the other two being a (short) pleasure flight from Old Warden in the 1970's and the other a Hungarian Airforce Mil-17 for a somewhat longer chartered pleasure flight in Hungary in 1997.

 

Mil-17, nice, but I bet that was a bit "different"?

 

Your outbound trip would have been on G-BCEB, which was an S61 that was modified just for the Scillies run from Penzance.  It had a unique baggage bay arrangement, in that the the doors were external and were down the left hand side of the fuselage.  This allowed for very quick turnrounds.  All other S61s had internal access to the baggage.  This modification meant that BCEB was no longer designated as an amphibian, as the doors weren't water tight.  However it would still float if needed, due to the large sponsons and supplementary floatation bags.

 

Both aircraft are still active, with BCEB now being N618CK with Croman in OR; and BFFJ is C-GRMR with Rotor Maxx in BC.  Not bad for airframes that are 50 years old.

 

 

Steve

[durham light infantry]

14 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

If the successful modification had been incorporated on the subject aircraft, there must have been another causal factor. Out of curiosity (Before retirement my career was in a different transport-related industry and I have a strong interest in failure investigation), I will have a look at the AAIB report. As I said a few posts earlier, human error can never be the root cause of an accident.

 

 

IIRC the problem with the carburettor was a faulty diaphragm and an ovalised hole, a revised maintenance document was subsequently issued by Rolls Royce.

[St Enodoc]

46 minutes ago, durham light infantry said:

 

As has been explained, the "historic problem" is a myth that has persisted since 1940, despite a solution being devised and fitted since 1941.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling's_orifice

 

From the AAIB report, not an enthusiast website quoting a wrong  50 year old wrongly remembered half truth;

 

"The Merlin's reputation for cutting under negative g conditions had endured since the beginning of 
the Second World War. Curiously,the fact that a successful carburettor modification had been 
developed(and incorporated on the subject aircraft) to remedy the problem had largely been 
forgotten. "
 

The pilot was an experienced professional test pilot employed by BAe, he had full training and experience including asymetric flying. The man responsible for maintaining the aircraft was in the navigators seat.

 

In short, it was an unfortunate accident with a fully experienced aircrew flying a properly maintained and serviced aircraft. Please stop speculating and perpetrating an urban myth. No wonder people believe the internet over hard facts.

Out of curiosity (before retirement, my career was in a different transport-related industry and I have a strong interest in failure investigation), I have looked at the AAIB report.

 

The report (https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/de-havilland-dh98-mosquito-t3-g-askh-21-july-1996) suggests that a probable cause of the accident was incorrect overhaul of the carburettors, resulting in fuel flows being lower than the required values. The report does not attribute any blame to the pilot (or to the second crew member).

 

My opinion remains that the cause of the accident was neither pilot error nor lack of adequate training. The historic problem had indeed been fixed but a probable cause of the accident was a different carburettor problem, namely incorrect overhaul, leading to what in my industry we would call "fuel starvation" during the flight.

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, 55020 said:

 

Mil-17, nice, but I bet that was a bit "different"?

 

Your outbound trip would have been on G-BCEB, which was an S61 that was modified just for the Scillies run from Penzance.

 

 

Just looked at the slide I took and it is B, but the bottom of the letter is obscured by something, making it look like an R !!

 

The Mil was certainly an interesting beast and the Aviation Tour I went on to Hungary had arranged for a trip in one from Szentkirályszabadja Airbase as part of our visit there. From memory the price started off at something like £30 but ended up about 50% more than that after someone within the Airforce started to worry about letting "Civilians" up in a Military aircraft, so hiked the price to allow for extra insurance cover!

 

 

We flew over and around the Lake Balaton area so it was quite a scenic trip, though the best bit was just before we landed back at the Base when they did a very low level high-speed "beat up" of the runway!

 

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, durham light infantry said:

 

As has been explained, the "historic problem" is a myth that has persisted since 1940, despite a solution being devised and fitted since 1941.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling's_orifice

 

From the AAIB report, not an enthusiast website quoting a wrong  50 year old wrongly remembered half truth;

 

"The Merlin's reputation for cutting under negative g conditions had endured since the beginning of 
the Second World War. Curiously,the fact that a successful carburettor modification had been 
developed(and incorporated on the subject aircraft) to remedy the problem had largely been 
forgotten. "
 

The pilot was an experienced professional test pilot employed by BAe, he had full training and experience including asymetric flying. The man responsible for maintaining the aircraft was in the navigators seat.

 

In short, it was an unfortunate accident with a fully experienced aircrew flying a properly maintained and serviced aircraft. Please stop speculating and perpetrating an urban myth. No wonder people believe the internet over hard facts.

Yep, that’s the internet.

The AAIB report does state though that there was a loss of power from the left engine, whether this was negative G or some other cause I’m not sure, but it’s timing was surely bad.

 

The guy was clearly an experienced pilot, but bad luck and a journey through the “ Swiss cheese “of holes lining up can get anyone. I’ve lost count of the number of display pilots that have died from enthusiastic amateurs to fast jet, red arrows, and test pilots and everyone in between.

 

It was the reason Gary Numan stopped display flying he said, started turning up and all his mates were dead

[jjb1970]

One of my favourite WW2 aircraft, a beautifully sleep and elegant aircraft, the Ki46. Unfortunately it is displayed at Hendon in a way which prevents good photographs, this is with the wide angle lens of my phone which is equivalent to something like a 13mm and it just gets enough to make taking a pic worth it.

 

[jjb1970]

Another glorious looking aircraft, there's something wonderfully elegant about the Hunter, especially next to modern fighters which have sprouted humps, bumps and warts all over.

 

[rob D2]

A hunter with sidewinders ?

Didn't know they lasted in front line service long enough to get modern armaments like that 

 

I remember all the nice FRaDU hunters at yeovilton - flew with a guy years later who used to fly them.

He had a beard to be proud of !