First Gen DMU's

[jonny777]

Oooh, lovely.

 

 

We could have a West Ealing thread....

 

 

 

W55021 on 15th Feb 1989

 

 

 

L413 in summer 1991

 

 

 

L417 in winter 1991

 

 

 

L837 also in winter 1991

Edited August 18, 2016 by jonny777

[frobisher]

Agreed, but......

 

See the first line of my post where I mention '.....in normal service......' 

 

Snipping a quote as you have done can be used to change the context but not necessarily the fact.

In normal service, the 140 would have worked with others of its class. As a prototype, it wasn't in normal service Being a multiple unit doesn't require that there are multiples of them, only that it can be worked in multiple.

[jonny777]

But, the thread title is "First Gen DMUs".

 

Does a 140, or the HST prototype for that matter, really come under this description?

[Derekstuart]

Would anyone mind me asking a slightly off topic question? (probably someone will)

 

Since there are so many photos of 121 and 122 and people have made reference on the thread to the Lima model, can anyone tell me please what the big error is with the windows? Actual errors not lack of detail from a 20 year old model. I obviously don't want to hijack the topic with that question, so please just a simple "that's what's wrong- you obviously need to go to Specsavers" type answer if possible. Ta.

 

 

BTW I think this is becoming one of my favourite topics. Those youngsters who have only ever experienced vomiters, adelantes and other such tin boxes don't know what they are missing.

[leopardml2341]

I was never interested in bug units, so have very few photos of them.

 

 

 

Dare I say that this was about the only dmu that interested me?

20150617222637_04.jpg

 

 

 

I have snipped the quote above for clarity.

 

But, the thread title is "First Gen DMUs".

 

Does a 140, or the HST prototype for that matter, really come under this description?

 

No they don't, it all stems from the association of the term DMU with a production HST in the pic by 96701 above. Which, incidentally, is neither DMU nor first Generation

 

My citation of the prototype HST was simply selected (in vain it would seem) as an  attempt to clarify in railway operating terms what the M in Diesel (Multiple) Unit means, I also mentioned Prototype APT and Pendolino, neither of which are M or First Generation

 

Perhaps my choice of an example of a Diesel Unit which could not be operated in Multiple (until the 6 car units were modified) would have better been satisfied by the Metro-Cammell Blue Pullman Diesel Units (note no 'M'), which I hope by virtue of their date of introduction will be considered to be First Generation.

[leopardml2341]

In normal service, the 140 would have worked with others of its class. As a prototype, it wasn't in normal service Being a multiple unit doesn't require that there are multiples of them, only that it can be worked in multiple.

 

As far as I know there was only one - ergo it could (can) not operate in Multiple with 'others of its class'.

 

Also, unless it had the same control circuits it would (could) not be worked in 'Multiple' with other Units, same or different classes - again I refer you to my first post on the meaning of 'M' in DMU.

 

Perhaps you can cite evidence as to the nature of the control circuits and the similarity with other Diesel Units of the same build generation?

 

Leading to the conclusion that it is indeed a DMU.

 

Anyway, nowt more from me on the meaning of M in DMU - some will always fall on stony ground.

 

Apologies to the dmustu, the OP, for drifting off topic.

[br2975]

Cardiff Canton Class 116 Derby Suburban set C304 (50088 + 59362 + 50130 ) at Cardiff Central during the later 1970s.

.

Brian R.

[Derekstuart]

Andy,

 

Whilst not seeking to argue with you- as I happen to agree with you- tell me if every voyager was scrapped today, except one, which retained its MU working capability would it stop being a D(E)MU and if so what would you call it?

[Rivercider]

A lot of my childhood holiday memories from the late 1960s involved trips in rattling DMUs from Exeter to Topsham and Exmouth, or Dawlish Warren, Dawlish, Torquay and Paignton. Years later I returned to take photos.

 

As there were normally no trains booked to be worked by DMUs between Taunton and Exeter the Plymouth Division DMUs based at Laira tended to be fairly captive to Devon and Cornwall from the late 1960s and through into the 1980s, not normally getting further east than Cowley Bridge Junction, or Axminster. Conversely DMUs allocated to other Divisions of the Western Region were rare visitors to the South West though strangely I managed to photograph several foreign sets. 

 

 

In July 1982 I photographed class 118 set 471 twice, once at Newton Abbot as Bristol set B471 being hauled towards Plymouth, and at the end of the month renumbered as Plymouth set P471 at Paignton. I wonder if I saw it during the transfer move?

50019 Ramillies departs Newton Abbot heading west with class 118 set B471, 3/7/82

 

 

On summer Saturdays the train service to the West Country was intensive, and during the day there were no pathways

for local DMU services from Exeter to Newton Abbot and Paignton, instead passengers caught one of the many loco hauled holiday trains that called at the seaside stations. In the evening however local DMU services resumed.

Class 118 set P471, by now allocated to Laira, ticks over at Paignton on a summer Saturday evening waiting to return to Exeter St Davids at 18.15, 31/7/82

 

Now to disprove my own point about 'foreign' sets in Devon and Cornwall here is another visitor.

Bristol based class 119 set B591, another unusual visitor to Devon, runs empty stock up through Newton Abbot 20/7/85 

 

cheers

 

 

[royaloak]

 Those youngsters who have only ever experienced vomiters, adelantes and other such tin boxes don't know what they are missing.

Which is the same as the old gits said about us back in 1970/1980 about the passing of steam, now we are the the old gits!

And it is exactly the same as the yoof of today will say about the young enthusiasts in 30 or 40 years time.

[royaloak]

The 119 has probably worked down as a relief (remember those?) and is running back empty to Bristol.

 

I have known BR to run reliefs to reliefs because there were that many people travelling.

[flyingsignalman]

Hooton, in late 1979 or early 1980 (most likely late 1979 looking at the foliage), a DMU leaves the bay for Helsby.

 

.....and in March 1980, a not unknown occurrence, 25 056 hauls a failed Park Royal unit to Chester.

[flyingsignalman]

Those youngsters who have only ever experienced vomiters, adelantes and other such tin boxes don't know what they are missing.

(snip)

Especially when the exhaust fumes used to find their way into the coaches instead of up the exhaust pipe!

[flyingsignalman]

Chester on 29 June 1981.

A DMU shunts by Chester Nr2 signal box.

 

Another DMU arrives from the Mickle Trafford direction (light damaged).

[eastwestdivide]

The front seat experience, 1984:

 

And the back seat experience, 1986:

(Thames Valley, the 47 overtaking on an Oxford-Paddington I think)

 

Same again at Stewartby, Jan 1984:

Edited August 18, 2016 by eastwestdivide

[leopardml2341]

Andy,

 

Whilst not seeking to argue with you- as I happen to agree with you- tell me if every voyager was scrapped today, except one, which retained its MU working capability would it stop being a D(E)MU and if so what would you call it?

Diesel Electric Unit, cos there would be only one and one (of an item) is not a multiple.

 

Think of times tables as a simple analogy:

 

1*1=1 e.g. a single car unit; 1 lot of 1

2*1=2 e.g. 2 single car units (in multiple); 2 lots of 1

 

1*2=2 e.g a single 2 car unit; 1 lot of 2

2*2=4 e.g. 2x 2 car units (in multiple); 2 lots of 2

 

Does that make sense?

Edited August 18, 2016 by leopardml2341

[leopardml2341]

Especially when the exhaust fumes used to find their way into the coaches instead of up the exhaust pipe!

Cravens units were good for that. The exhaust (pipe) went up through the brake van area when new iirc.

Edited August 18, 2016 by leopardml2341

[Market65]

Here is the interior of the class 104/2 DMBS as sen in a previous photo, in 1987, at Beverley station just prior to departing for Hull. I took quite a number of photos of the unit that day just in case it was the last ever class 104 I would see in regular BR service - which it was!

 

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

Cravens units were good for that. The exhaust (pipe) went up through the brake van area when new iirc.

And next to the toilet in DMCL's!

 

Rob.

[leopardml2341]

Here is the interior of the class 104/2 DMBS as sen in a previous photo, in 1987, at Beverley station just prior to departing for Hull. I took quite a number of photos of the unit that day just in case it was the last ever class 104 I would see in regular BR service - which it was!

 

img079.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

 

And next to the toilet in DMCL's!

 

Rob.

That pic just oozes nostalgia, thanks Rob

[Derekstuart]

I know what you are saying is correct, but some of the older people on this forum will show photos of dozens of lads at stations writing down numbers. Of my age group the number was higher than today but lower than others describe (incidentally I could never see the point of it). Now how often do you see anyone writing down train numbers? I think that says it all from an enthusiasts point of view.

Which is the same as the old gits said about us back in 1970/1980 about the passing of steam, now we are the the old gits!

And it is exactly the same as the yoof of today will say about the young enthusiasts in 30 or 40 years time.

 

Simple idea: Get on with scrapping voyagers and we will find out.

Diesel Electric Unit, cos there would be only one and one (of an item) is not a multiple.

Think of times tables as a simple analogy:

1*1=1 e.g. a single car unit; 1 lot of 1
2*1=2 e.g. 2 single car units (in multiple); 2 lots of 1

1*2=2 e.g a single 2 car unit; 1 lot of 2
2*2=4 e.g. 2x 2 car units (in multiple); 2 lots of 2

Does that make sense?

 

Out of interest, wasn't that only the early builds? They had given up with that idea by the time they had finished building them all.

Cravens units were good for that. The exhaust (pipe) went up through the brake van area when new iirc.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Derekstuart

[piranha230]

I would love to see one of the rtr manufacturers do a class 100, 103 or 104 unit, i have been looking on the railcar website at photo's of the class 100 and class 103 when they were brand new and keep thinking to myself how nice they looked, i used to think the class 100 was a very ugly looking dmu, but looking at these photo's has changed my mind.

[Branksome71B]

Especially when the exhaust fumes used to find their way into the coaches instead of up the exhaust pipe!

 

Or travelling in winter on a Gloucester Class 119 set when the heaters wouldn't fire. Difficult to see or breathe through the fumes.

[frobisher]

Does that make sense?

About as much as the sound of one hand clapping as it's about as existential. 1, is a multiple of 1 by the way

 

To get (sorta) back on topic, technically, weren't most of the vehicles in question actually collections of railcars (powered or trailer) that could be split up and assembled in almost any old order, almost regardless of where the driving cabs were (the limit for multiple control being number of powered vehicles in the train)? Of course we recognise them as multiple units because they worked in unit trains by and large.

[D854_Tiger]

About as much as the sound of one hand clapping as it's about as existential. 1, is a multiple of 1 by the way

 

To get (sorta) back on topic, technically, weren't most of the vehicles in question actually collections of railcars (powered or trailer) that could be split up and assembled in almost any old order, almost regardless of where the driving cabs were (the limit for multiple control being number of powered vehicles in the train)? Of course we recognise them as multiple units because they worked in unit trains by and large.

 

I would tend to agree that were we down to just one Voyager, it would still be a multiple unit, in the same way that if all the women in the world ceased to exist I would still be a bloke.

 

Anyway Voyagers aren't so bad, try one on the WCML, by golly they can shift and rather nice in the first class.

[Rivercider]

Some more photos of Lairas DMU fleet at work in the 1980s, in Plymouth and over the border in Cornwall,

some of these photos will have been posted before on other threads.

 

 

The sharp curves and steep gradients of the Gunnislake Branch meant that a 2 car power twin unit was normally provided. In the early 1980s this was often class 118 set P480 formed of 51312 and 51327.

Set P480 waits at Plymouth to work the 16.40 service to Gunnislake, 21/4/82

 

In the early 1980s Laira had an allocation of four class121 single power cars no.s 55024-27.

55026, set P126 has been used to strengthen the 10.10 service from Newquay to Par and is about to be detached at Par, 16/7/80

 

Set P480 again, this time on the Newquay Branch service.

P480 is seen heading away from St Blazey on the 13.40 Par - Newquay service, 7/11/83.

 

 

A view of the station at Newquay

Class 118 set P469 (probably 51311, 59340, 51326) waits at Newquay before working the 16.00 service to Par, 23/6/82

 

Finally a view further west at St Austell

Class 118 set P460 this time ( probably formed 51302, 59469, 51317) calls at St Austell with the 15.55 Par - Penzance service, 8/3/83

 

cheers