Quality Control

[Robin Brasher]

It could also be that the arm attaching the bogie to the loco is bent causing the rear pair of the bogie wheels to lift off.

 

Triang Princess ? do you mean that short loco drive loco dating from the 50s and 60s? I am surprised that will run on any track work we have these days as they were designed for - say - code 200! And the wheel back 2 back on those would make the thing jump off the layout at the first set of points.

If you mean the 80s/90s tender drive Princess (which is entirely UK made Hornby model and no Triang inside it) then those were very reliable runners. 

Tri-ang Princess from the 1950s. Ran well on grey standard track, series 3 and super 4. 1980s tender drive Princess also runs very well on Peco track.

[Hroth]

Back to backs and a check on bogie arm geometry usually sorts derailing Hornby loco bogies.  I've also had problems with some Hornby coaches requiring the back to backs to be reset.

 

I've a Triang Princess in a R0 set, serial number of the set is in the 600s and the instructions pasted inside the lid.  When it comes out it works well (and, touch wood, the coaches haven't turned into bananas yet), but I've a Super 4 layout for all my old Triang stock now.  Running the Princess on modern Hornby set track was successful, but points involved a lot of hurdling!

[JSpencer]

Tri-ang Princess from the 1950s. Ran well on grey standard track, series 3 and super 4. 1980s tender drive Princess also runs very well on Peco track.

 

Fair enough although comparing the pizza cutter wheels and high rail height of the Triang toy train vs the fine scale modern Hornby princess model would be like comparing a fisher price wind up telly with a modern flat screen. One is designed with kids rough treatment in mind and built to last, the other is a fine product which needs careful handling and has adult usage in mind.

[Robin Brasher]

The difference is that a modern flat screen television works whereas the last version of the Princess does not. I had about 12 years of fun running my Tri-ang Princess on course scale track but my Hornby Princess has yet to complete a circuit on any layout. It may be a simple fault that can be corrected when I find my back to back gauge. Most of my other Hornby locomotives run very well but I have had problems with this one.

[dandrews2000]

Well well Hornby 4 Hornby locos brought and 4 Hornby locos with problems.

 

1) Hornby 08 with sound replaced by Hornby and replacement still lurches. (XMAS PRESENT)

 

2) Hornby caerphilly castle blew decoder upon installation as tender wired wrong (shop refund) (BIRTHDAY PRESENT)

 

3) NRM LSWR M7 body weights glued as opposed to screwed in, pipes from chasis glued to body so had to break to gain access to chip. Oh and noisy motor, would have have got a refund as not fit for purpose had i not had it sitting in a display cabinet for 14 months.

(XMAS PRESENT)

 

4) And finally D16/3 Claud Hamilton which runs fine on dc but is an absolute dog on dcc. Have tried esu lokpilot, gaugemaster dcc26 x 2 and Hornby's own decoder to no avail (BIRTHDAY PRESENT) Refund or replacement?

[jjb1970]

My own opinion is that if a model does not work then return it for exchange or refund. If a model is not especially accurate, the wrong colour, wrong shape or whatever then you are aware of that and make a decision whether or not to buy it. There is however no reason to justify why a consumer should just accept a faulty product and be expected to make it work themselves. I'm guessing that very few would buy a car with a defective engine and consider that it was there job to make the engine work, redesign the car or buy a new engine from a better engine maker. Maybe this is a character flaw in me but I make no distinction between model suppliers and any other companies in terms of service expectation and expecting products to be of good quality and fit for purpose. If the retailer offers a refund or exchange then fair enough.

[Robin Brasher]

Yes. The best thing to do is to return the faulty model and get a refund. This is what I did with a Bachmann Tornado which derailed every time it went through a point and Hattons refunded the money. My Hornby Tornado runs very well but the simplified lining is very poor.

 

I should have returned the Hornby Princess which also derails every time it goes through a point. At first I thought it was my track which was wrong as the baseboards may not have been perfectly level and I was running it through second radius points. Now four years later I have run it on well laid Peco track with large radius Peco points on a professionally made thick plywood baseboard and the front bogie is still derailing. Another member of my club has got a digital Princess which is also prone to derailments but not as much as mine. It is now much to late to send it back under guarantee but Hornby might still repair it subject to a charge.

[royaloak]

Why not have a look to see what is causing the wheel set/bogie to derail, it is probably something really simple like an over tight screw, poor back to backs or a bent support arm.

 

If anyone has bought a new car you will know all about getting them sorted, the pre-delivery inspection is only done to ensure the engine and associated bits, brakes, suspension etc works and the wheels are on tight, everything else is left to the new owner to compile a list which will be sorted out at the first service.

 

Many mass produced items are likely to have problems, some will be minor but occasionally there will be a major FUBAR during production.

Edited October 8, 2016 by royaloak

[jjb1970]

If anyone has bought a new car you will know all about getting them sorted, the pre-delivery inspection is only done to ensure the engine and associated bits, brakes, suspension etc works and the wheels are on tight, everything else is left to the new owner to compile a list which will be sorted out at the first service.

That's not been my experience. Almost all the new cars I've bought have been fully functional with no cause for concern when delivered. And very few of them have given me any issues while I've owned them. In fact the only one that's been a bit of a lemon is my wife's current VW Golf and the shoddy warranty service has pretty much made my mind up not to bother looking at VW's again when car shopping.

[Pint of Adnams]

If anyone has bought a new car you will know all about getting them sorted, the pre-delivery inspection is only done to ensure the engine and associated bits, brakes, suspension etc works and the wheels are on tight, everything else is left to the new owner to compile a list which will be sorted out at the first service.

Wrong - these days most manufacturers do not include an early mileage (e.g. 1,000 miles) service for an oil change or whatever, although there are good reasons why they should. The first and subsequent services are at the specified mileage or, if not reached, at every 12 months is pretty much the norm these days.

 

And is it really wise to leave any faults once noticed to persist and maybe cause further issues?

[Ian Hargrave]

That's not been my experience. Almost all the new cars I've bought have been fully functional with no cause for concern when delivered. And very few of them have given me any issues while I've owned them. In fact the only one that's been a bit of a lemon is my wife's current VW Golf and the shoddy warranty service has pretty much made my mind up not to bother looking at VW's again when car shopping.

Well off the topic but having a VW from new in 2011 which developed a problem that was untraceable for 3 months ,I sympathise.In my case it was the intermittent loss of power steering,an alarming experience I assure you.

 

In essence,to sort a warranty claim,the VW dealer must not act without the express advice and consent of HQ in Milton Keynes .It goes like this.....try this. Try that,try the other....under a complete stranglehold of any initiative whatsoever on the part of the dealership.

 

The problem was eventually sorted and after my turning the wrath of Genghis Khan on VW ,I got a service package for two years at reduced rate as compensation.It also cost them a replacement loan car on three separate occasions while they attempted a solution by remote control......a dose of Teutonic bullshxx if ever there was.

[jjb1970]

Well off the topic but having a VW from new in 2011 which developed a problem that was untraceable for 3 months ,I sympathise.In my case it was the intermittent loss of power steering,an alarming experience I assure you.

 

In essence,to sort a warranty claim,the VW dealer must not act without the express advice and consent of HQ in Milton Keynes .It goes like this.....try this. Try that,try the other....under a complete stranglehold of any initiative whatsoever on the part of the dealership.

 

The problem was eventually sorted and after my turning the wrath of Genghis Khan on VW ,I got a service package for two years at reduced rate as compensation.It also cost them a replacement loan car on three separate occasions while they attempted a solution by remote control......a dose of Teutonic bullshxx if ever there was.

I had to resort to sending registered letter worded in legalese (at times like this sharing an office with an assistant who is a barrister with two Masters degrees in law is very useful......) to get them to do anything, and the whole process was painful. The local dealer then had the nerve to call us to suggest that it would be splendid if we traded the car in for another new VW. I'd rather poke my own eyes out than buy another VW. The silly thing is that 6 months ago I was leaning towards replacing my Citroen DS5 with a Golf GTE as until things started going horribly wrong we were very pleased with the Golf.

[olivegreen]

STOP, please - you are all frightening me!  I have just bought a new (ish: an ex demonstrator) VW Golf.  I just hope that VW France is less crass, should there be a problem, than VW GB seems to be!

 

Back on topic - I have to say, to redress the balance a little amid all the gripes about Hornby's QC, that I have bought around 10 of their locos in the past couple of years, along with others from DJM and Kernow, and have not had a single problem with any of them. All DC, of course. (By the way, what is DCC?    )

[royaloak]

That's not been my experience. Almost all the new cars I've bought have been fully functional with no cause for concern when delivered. And very few of them have given me any issues while I've owned them. In fact the only one that's been a bit of a lemon is my wife's current VW Golf and the shoddy warranty service has pretty much made my mind up not to bother looking at VW's again when car shopping.

I gave up on new cars years ago, now I get 'worn in' cars and keep them until they are worn out and not cost effective to repair, my current car has just had a shock absorber change and I noted the discs are looking a bit ropey so they will be getting done before the next MOT.

[No Decorum]

Sorry to drift away from this fascinating subject but Hornby very wisely chose about half-a-dozen factories to produce stuff after the disaster of depending too much on Sanda Kan. I wonder was it appreciated that half-a-dozen different suppliers would make quality control rather more difficult?

[Ian Hargrave]

Sorry to drift away from this fascinating subject but Hornby very wisely chose about half-a-dozen factories to produce stuff after the disaster of depending too much on Sanda Kan. I wonder was it appreciated that half-a-dozen different suppliers would make quality control rather more difficult?

Logical thought.IMHO in contrast,Bachmann produce fewer problems.....apart that is from the newly tooled Class40 a couple of years back.....which to be fair they duly sorted.Being Chinese owned a much tighter grip is exercised on QC it seems.

[Tony Burgess]

Split chassis, 3 pole motor? No wonder the exorcism didn't work;)

Well, reading this post I know it is conventional wisdom that the split-chassis locos are rubbish - and I certainly don't mourn their departure - but I feel I should just record my recent experience.

With a neighbour expressing interest in all things GWR I decided to give some of my GWR stuff an airing on the layout.  This included a Bachmann 43xx split chassis loco which I hadn't run extensively before and not for more years than I care to admit.

Now normally I don't commit to the track a loco that hasn't been run in ages until after I've checked all bearings etc are lubricated.  But this time I thought I'd just put it on and see how it ran.  The answer - faultlessly.  Indeed, better than some old Hornby locos.

We're on a Hornby thread, and so it's also worth recording that I've been working on a "late70s/early80s manufacture" County 4-4-0 with tender drive.  Some extra weight in the loco, and extra pick-up for the rail the tender wheels use, and she runs beautifully.  Looks very well, too, pulling long Hornby Clerestory bogies and a Clerestory 6-wheeler from a "cut&shut" cheapie.  Again, don't misunderstand me, I love the greater authenticity of modern RTR stock.  But the point of mentioning this is again to underline the fact that older models can be very good as well in the context of running on a layout.

[Hroth]

I remarked upon my elderly Princess Lizzie and her points-hurdling earlier on, I neglected to mention that I've also got R3015 "Princess Arthur Of Connaught".  The only problem I had with getting her around the layout concerned derailing on 2nd radius curves.  However, that problem soon went away as the front footsteps pinged off (they had been affixed by the previous owner).  I still haven't found one of them!

 

I don't know where it is now (somewhere on one of my capacious hard disks), but I lined up my Triang Lizzie (from Set R0), a green Lizzie from the late 50's (but still without valve gear, must be a transplant job or something) and "Princess Arthur" and took a pic of the differences in length. 

 

 

As for VWs, get a Skoda instead.  They're pretty much the same under the skin, better put together slightly cheaper and far more reliable!

[No Decorum]

Many of the early Hornby Ringfields were of inconsistent quality. A plus was that they used the same ones in big steamers and diesels! In my early days, I could swap them around and if the problem was in the motor, replacements were cheap and readily available.

 

I had a Toyota for years. Nice car but the brake discs kept warping. Toyota wasn’t helpful. I have a Skoda now. So far (over four years) happy with it.

[G-BOAF]

Looks like (presumably REF) QC problems persist with the Hornby A4. The following pics from Rails Sheffield Ebay. you would have thought after the 'Great Gathering' mess, extra care would have been given to these models.

 

Here is the latest A4 60026, look at the tender chassis-body interface at the rear:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mU4AAOSw3gJZLpV8/s-l1600.jpg

Plus the inside of the tender body is body-colour (green) rather than plan (as was the case with their recent blue A4 Golden Eagle)

 

And on the QoS A4, poor tender interface, along with the 'sunken' cab roof just above the rain strips...

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VR0AAOSwlndZLpXX/s-l1600.jpg

Edited June 2, 2017 by G-BOAF