BR Class 4MT Tank 2-6-4T

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 

...This must be one of the worst body removals for DCC ever...

 Very early introduction in the new 'Blue Riband' series of superior models that Bachmann introduced around the millenium. Two other near contemporary introductions, the WD 2-8-0 and BR std 5, are similarly not the easiest to remove and replace the bodies. The BR std 5 also shares the speedo representation, and this is an acknowledged pig to get reattached without inflicting a serious limp to the running loco; to the extent that Bachmann specifically dropped this feature from future model plans. Good looking and well performing models, these inconveniences aside.

 

It is interesting to see how Bachmann subsequently improved in design. The Fairburn 2-6-4T and BR std 9F are models of simplicity for body removal and replacement by comparison.

[birdseyecircus]

I emailed Bachmann and got the following reply:

 

Thank you for your recent e-mail

 

The instructions are unfortunately of the earlier type and have not been updated yet.  On the left hand side of the model, the speedometer cable sits just in front of the cab. The crank screw can be removed to allow this part to be removed and the body released.

Assembly has been revised several times in China, on some models the bracket supporting the pipework will remain with the chassis as its removed, on others the bracket will remain with the body.  In this case, the pipework may need to be cut unless it’s possible to ease the pipework off the bracket.  This arrangement has not been repeated on the later models like the Fairburn tanks.

 

Regards

Jenni

 

 

I decided to have another go. I could not get the screw out holding the speedo so left it attached. I cut one of the pipes on the other side but instead of a clean cut it broke off around 4mm worth completely.

The pipework jumble under the cab door was gently moved over its support bracket, but the pipework behind this would not budge.

All this movement allowed me to lift the boiler just enough to prop it up using a pencil between the body and chassis whilst I fitted a decoder.

How on earth the pipework which was stretched to the limit did not snap I will never know, but the job is complete and the loco running.

I have just had a Model Rail USA tank delivered and the instructions with that are far superior to the 4MT tank.

 

Paul

[No Decorum]

Yes, I think you could say that the instructions with the USA Tank belong to a new generation of instructions and very welcome they are too. I love the Bachmann 08s and they run very sweetly with a direct-fit 8-pin decoder from Hatton’s. I remember, though, sitting surrounded by screws until I discovered that the only screw which needed to be removed was a tiny one under the rear coupling. Just in case anyone tries to open an 08, watch out for the wire conduit on the left front corner – it’s plugged into both the body and the chassis.

 

All that information on opening (or not) the Standard Tank is very useful. Thanks.

[ikks]

Hastening to mention it  there’s a picture of it in Ramsay’s 6th. edition in GWR green. Just when you think it couldn’t possibly be worse . . .

There's one on ebay now fifty quid including postage!!!!

 

Mike

[Robin Brasher]

A Wrenn 2-6-4T pulled 50 mainly Bachmann wagons at the Godlingston trials at the first floor of the stables at Godlingston Manor, Swanage yesterday afternoon. This is equal to the Bachmann 4MT's performance. Wrenn made 2-6-4Ts from 1967 to 1992. This model is later than 1967 as it has nickel silver wheels on the front bogie and pony truck. I have renumbered it from 80033 to 80085 to run on the Swanage Railway in BR days. According to Ramsay's guides this model has gone down in value from a price ranging from £60 - £70 in 2000 to £35-£50 in 2015.

 

There is a Bachmann 2-6-4Tin the background and the price of the cheapest version is between £45 and £58. The Wrenn version has a cruder finish but you can take it apart more easily for oiling. Both are better value than the LIma N gauge version.

[No Decorum]

There's one on ebay now fifty quid including postage!!!!

 

Mike

Perhaps if they were put into production again, it would stop us all complaining.

 

Oh bu**er. I think Hornby reads this forum.

[No Decorum]

A Wrenn 2-6-4T pulled 50 mainly Bachmann wagons at the Godlingston trials at the first floor of the stables at Godlingston Manor, Swanage yesterday afternoon. This is equal to the Bachmann 4MT's performance. Wrenn made 2-6-4Ts from 1967 to 1992. This model is later than 1967 as it has nickel silver wheels on the front bogie and pony truck. I have renumbered it from 80033 to 80085 to run on the Swanage Railway in BR days. According to Ramsay's guides this model has gone down in value from a price ranging from £60 - £70 in 2000 to £35-£50 in 2015.

 

There is a Bachmann 2-6-4Tin the background and the price of the cheapest version is between £45 and £58. The Wrenn version has a cruder finish but you can take it apart more easily for oiling. Both are better value than the LIma N gauge version.

Nice pic. I quite like my Wrenn, although a new set of wheels would help it. I’m quite surprised that it didn’t out-pull the Bachmann, considering how heavy it is.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I doubt there's much difference in weight between them, I no longer own one but it came in an ounce under a pound / 430g; the Bachmann's body construction is a metal casting supporting the visible plastic exterior. The carrying wheels are likely to be more free rolling too, so not subtracting from the traction to the same extent. I had more than a slight feeling with this model that Bachmann had their eye on matching the old H-D/Wrenn item, as it has always been well liked both for capturing the prototype's character, and its pulling power.

 

(The later Fairburn 2-6-4T from Bachman which I now have as better suiting my chosen area, is slightly lighter at 380g; but is neverthless very capable and outpulls any current RTR 8F, the recent - heavyweight - Heljan O2 excepted.)

[JSpencer]

Here are my 3;

 

Wrenn 80064 (Bluebell railway member with 3 pole motor)

Wrenn 80151 (Bluebell railway member with 5 pole motor)

Bachmann 80061

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by JSpencer

[Robin Brasher]

Nice pic. I quite like my Wrenn, although a new set of wheels would help it. I’m quite surprised that it didn’t out-pull the Bachmann, considering how heavy it is.

They both pulled 50 wagons. I have not yet added some more wagons to find out their maximum load.

[Dan Griffin]

i have made a small modification to mine, as mentioned above mine was stalling on track that wasnt level, which was becoming quite a pain as it was the only loco that did it. it now runs smooth as silk all over the layout. and it took less than an hour. the pick up wires were added to the existing wires and all insulated. loco was put back together and its runs a treat.

 

 

the new pick ups under the trailing bogie

 

 

the soldered areas have been painted black as has the red wire. its invisible now unless you are looking for it.

[Ian Abel]

Another question for the thread.

 

Having recently acquired one of these lovely locos, and managing to install the decoder with NO problems, thread details and drawings helped a lot, I have the following problem;

All my stock is KADEE equipped, and to date I've no real problems fitting the various couplings to everything I have, Bachmann, Hornby, older Mainline and even Ratio kits, today I have been stumped by this thing!

 

How did Bachmann manage to provide NEM pockets, but at TWO different heights on ONE loco!

Neither pocket is the right height for a NEM KADEE to work correctly, so I'm looking for advise as to what others using KADEES have done. #5 in draft box? NEM screwed to the bogie/coupling pocket? Anyone?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Jack]

Another question for the thread.

 

Having recently acquired one of these lovely locos, and managing to install the decoder with NO problems, thread details and drawings helped a lot, I have the following problem;

All my stock is KADEE equipped, and to date I've no real problems fitting the various couplings to everything I have, Bachmann, Hornby, older Mainline and even Ratio kits, today I have been stumped by this thing!

 

How did Bachmann manage to provide NEM pockets, but at TWO different heights on ONE loco!

Neither pocket is the right height for a NEM KADEE to work correctly, so I'm looking for advise as to what others using KADEES have done. #5 in draft box? NEM screwed to the bogie/coupling pocket? Anyone?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Yes, this has to be one of the more interesting locos to put a kadee on!  Sadly I don't think in the early days Bachmann understood that pockets should be at a set height.  I've also had to replace all the draw bars on my Mk.1 stock, plus fettle loads of wagons, and a few GWR prairies.

 

I've done a couple of the 4MTs.  The front pocket was at the correct height on both of mine, so I just clipped a #19 straight in.

 

On the rear I super-glued and screwed a #20 to the bottom of the existing pocket.  This is a trick I'd used on some of the older Bachmann wagons with some success.

[Ian Abel]

Jack - excellent, thanks for the information/advice.

 

It looked to me like a glue/screw of the rear would be appropriate but wanted confirmation first. The front one is a poser, as mine (though the loco is truly new/unused) appears having installed a #19 for a quick check, still too low <sigh>. Fettling in order I suppose, though I will check the installation/screws etc., on the front bogie first as yours appeared to work without issue!

 

I laughingly expected the 4MT, a recent purchase, to be the same as the 3MT I have, since they both have NEMs and decoder ready. I failed to remind myself the 3MT is actually a "new" production, relative to the much older 4MT tank.

 

My Mk1s I've left in rakes and am using the supplied close-coupling bars, they work for me, so only had to mess with the bogies at either end.

 

Thanks again for the swift response, and VERY useful information - now off to do battle

[G-BOAF]

80079, 80080, 80098 have been mainline, 80135 went "mainline"Ish, it did some trips to Middlesbrough.

(Of other std 4Mt's, 75014, 75069, 76079) and as of 2 weeks ago 76084 looks to have joined the list, having completed a mainline trial run.

 

Bachmann have done 80079, 80135, and all bar 76084 of the other mainline ones.

Word of caution with renumbering - 80079,  80 and 98 all have the later plain section rods. Any model depicting 80078 or earlier (should) be supplied with fluted rods. Rods are I think only available when purchased as part of a wheelset from Bachmann, but only about £10.

[Classsix T]

80079 will be the one I'm after.

 

Interesting post though, apart from checking all the plumbing and steps are in place, I can see if it's been re-wheeled. Incorrectly.

 

Charlie Sixer Tango.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Is there a definitive guide for fitting a DCC chip to this loco?

It's the last one I have to do.

 

Thanks

[RFS]

Is there a definitive guide for fitting a DCC chip to this loco?

It's the last one I have to do.

 

Thanks

 

It's pretty straightforward as there's plenty of space inside.  Mine has a Lenz Standard+ decoder.  The main issue is getting the body off and back on again without too many detail bits falling off ....

[Ian Abel]

It's pretty straightforward as there's plenty of space inside.  Mine has a Lenz Standard+ decoder.  The main issue is getting the body off and back on again without too many detail bits falling off ....

Indeed, plus 5 screws in total, including two REALLY TINY screws that are at the bottom holding the keeper plate in place between the valve gear on either side.

 

You need amazing eyesight and a very small diameter shaft screw driver to get to them.

Quite the challenge getting them out, THEN, putting them back IN was a real expletive moment/experience!

 

I used a TSC DP2X-UK 8-pin decoder. My preferred choice given they are abundant over here, seem to work really well in all I've used them in, and being US made are very affordable to boot.

[Sir TophamHatt]

I have a couple of Zimo and a Lenz Standard + v2 spare but I could do with a couple of photos showing where the screws are.  To be honest, I have no idea where the "valve gear" is or what it even looks like!

 

I found two at the back, then three in a line near the front... but didn't see the tiny ones   It did sort of want to come off when I pulled but I didn't want to exert more force in case something broke off.  I understand I need to make some cuts to some of the parts to separate the body?

 

Pretty confident at fitting the actual chip though (hopefully will be able to recycle an old Lenz chip!) though, but I'll take photos as I go and put together a guide (I have about 5 others to write).

[Ian Abel]

I have a couple of Zimo and a Lenz Standard + v2 spare but I could do with a couple of photos showing where the screws are.  To be honest, I have no idea where the "valve gear" is or what it even looks like!

 

I found two at the back, then three in a line near the front... but didn't see the tiny ones   It did sort of want to come off when I pulled but I didn't want to exert more force in case something broke off.  I understand I need to make some cuts to some of the parts to separate the body?

 

Pretty confident at fitting the actual chip though (hopefully will be able to recycle an old Lenz chip!) though, but I'll take photos as I go and put together a guide (I have about 5 others to write).

Also look at this thread -> http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/10720-Bachmann-br-standard-4mt-2-6-4t/

 

The pdf link included there isn't very clear but the only one I've found. I will try and take pictures of my 4MT and service sheet later but can't right now as I'm at work.

 

There are 5 screws total in the baseplate that need removing one at the front, two either side, between the first and second pair of driving wheels and two at the back.

You MUST ALSO remove the screw on the left side rear driver that secures the speedo cable otherwise you WILL break the cable when removing the body. Other than that, there is definitely NOT anything you need to cut to remove the body, if it seems like there IS, you haven't got all the correct screws out probably.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Ian Abel

[Ian Abel]

Detailed body removal;

 

There are a total of FIVE screws that hold the chassis to the body as follows;

 

i) ONE screw at the front of the loco - it's the furthest FORWARD of the three seen under the front bogie.

 

ii) TWO screws between the first and second pair of drivers, they're hard to see and quite small, the brake rigging is best removed (snap fit) to access them more easily.

 

iii) TWO screws at the rear under the rear bogie. The bogie can be swung from side to side to get to each one.

 

There is ONE screw holding the speedo cable end to the rear driving wheel on the left side. Take GREAT CARE when removing/replacing.

 

With all these screws out, it is possible to VERY CAREFULLY lift the body clear of the chassis, you may have to gentle ease some of the pipe work to clear the parts of the chassis.

 

See also below a partial image of the Service Sheet for the Bachmann references.

The screws referenced above are the ones shown on the service sheet with the dotted lines indicating their positioning.

 

 

I have a very good quality full scanned PDF available if anyone wants it.

 

Hope this helps - once the body is off, it's a simple matter to install a small enough 8-pin decoder. Again I used a TCS DP2X-UK.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Thanks so much - that's really great

Will give it a go this afternoon

[JSpencer]

the only additional advice I would give is use a very small amount of blue tack on the end of the driver, especially when you put the screws back!

[Ian Abel]

the only additional advice I would give is use a very small amount of blue tack on the end of the driver, especially when you put the screws back!

Agreed. Indeed, I forgot to mention that.

Especially with the two in the middle, even with blutac on the screwdriver I was VERY close to launching the loco out the window