Worst model locomotive.

[Robin Brasher]

For rivet counters and people who moan about no daylight under the boiler and dimensions being a millimetre out on modern models perhaps a look at Lima's N gauge 4MT will put things into perspective.

 

There is an illustration of this model on page 451 of Volume 2 of the 9th edition of Ramsay's Model Trains. Lima stretched the body to fit a continental chassis. Although it looked dreadful the price of a second hand one is between £25 and £40 so perhaps it runs well.

 

Many of the Hornby and Chad Valley 0 gauge locomotives bear little resemblance to the prototype but people enjoy running them.

[Coppercap]

Although it looked dreadful the price of a second hand one is between £25 and £40 so perhaps it runs well.

If that's the price (and I'll take your word for it), it doesn't mean anybody's ever paid that for one.

[Robin Brasher]

If that's the price (and I'll take your word for it), it doesn't mean anybody's ever paid that for one.

That is Ramsay's valuation of the model. I would be surprised if anyone bought one.

[Coppercap]

The "valuations" in these guides are not worth bothering with. Just look at the Model Price Guide for another laugh. It's not as though they are the Glass's guide for models.

[Mark Saunders]

The "valuations" in these guides are not worth bothering with. Just look at the Model Price Guide for another laugh. It's not as though they are the Glass's guide for models.

There is a whole thread on EBay madness which has even more wonderful prices and hopes of getting them!

 

Mark Saunders

[Talltim]

For the hard of Googling here is the loco in question on the Hattons website (they don't actually have one) http://www.hattons.co.uk/154427/Lima_L320252_U_Class_4MT_2_6_4T_80033_in_BR_Black_Pre_owned_wrong_box/StockDetail.aspx

[daftbovine]

It's worth having one just to remind yourself how much N gauge has improved. I was given one, it had two speeds - stop and flat out and it screeched and lurched around the track. Most of Lima's efforts in N leave a lot to be desired due to their dreadful running qualities and Lima's relaxed attitude to scale.

[eastwestdivide]

... Lima's relaxed attitude to scale.

 

like the Deltic where the top of the "bonnet" was the same height as the roof of a Mk1, and the Mk1s themselves had windowsills big enough to put window boxes on and grow giant marrows.

[Flying Pig]

For the hard of Googling here is the loco in question on the Hattons website (they don't actually have one) http://www.hattons.co.uk/154427/Lima_L320252_U_Class_4MT_2_6_4T_80033_in_BR_Black_Pre_owned_wrong_box/StockDetail.aspx

Where's the "my eyes, my eyes!" button? Lima steam in any scale was usually compromised, but that 4MT surely takes the prize.

 

As Robin says, coarse scale toys don't really count as they were fun and made no pretensions to accuracy, but once you start pasting BR standard cabsides on a ?German loco you've crossed a line.

[Nearholmer]

My goodness!

 

I'd always believed the Hornby 0 gauge No2 Special ( by what measure, who knows?) tank, and No.3 tender engine to be the ugliest models ever, but that is truly horrible - worse, I think, because it is trying to be something, and failing so miserably.

 

Kevin

[Derekstuart]

robin, this is the second thread you have opened about exactly the same subject.

 

Have you considered the possibility that maybe you are comparing historical technology, design and manufacturing to modern CAD/CAM and not quite grasping the bit in between named "progress"?

 

I wonder if you have looked at your car and compared to the same type of machine built in the 1970s. Are they a bit different by any chance?

[Il Grifone]

Certainly ugly, the Lima 4MT shared a chassis with their Swedish  and American 2-6-4Ts.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lima+swedish+2-6-4t&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=ngBo6WzgaMbzzM%253A%253Bn3Irj6QUlb6EVM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spookshow.net%25252Floco%25252Flima264.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=ngBo6WzgaMbzzM%253A%252Cn3Irj6QUlb6EVM%252C_&usg=__PTsx7FH_PAg55IYk47Z1T8Bm-7w%3D&biw=1304&bih=668#imgrc=ngBo6WzgaMbzzM%3A

 

Some comments here - it would appear the American (sold as Pennsylvania) version bears some relation to her prototype.

 

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/ahms-limas-2-6-4.75141/

 

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/lima264.html

 

The Swedish one too.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=SJ+2-6-4t&client=firefox-b&biw=1304&bih=668&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj78ffDjcLPAhUC6xQKHbW-BuUQsAQIGw

 

The Hornby locomotives are necessarily bulky to give room for a large spring. The tank bears some resemblance to a GWR 'Birdcage' 2-4-2T (swopping the leading bogie for a pony truck and the tender loco has a passing likeness to a French Nord Atlantic - the GWR had three of these, but fitted them with proper Churchward boilers).

 

Apart from Lima's horror, my candidate for worst model is Tri-ang's diesel shunter with inside frames rather than outside (this is certainly the commonest - it's still available from Hornby I believe) with their overheight ex SECR S class saddle tank a close second. (Ignoring the legions of four coupled toy locomotives and the primitive 'stork legs' and 'pidd dribblers')

Edited October 4, 2016 by Il Grifone

[TheSignalEngineer]

Looks like a Thompson L1 to the front and a standard 4MT to the rear if you squint.

Telescoped during a rough shunt?

[Robin Brasher]

robin, this is the second thread you have opened about exactly the same subject.

 

Have you considered the possibility that maybe you are comparing historical technology, design and manufacturing to modern CAD/CAM and not quite grasping the bit in between named "progress"?

 

I wonder if you have looked at your car and compared to the same type of machine built in the 1970s. Are they a bit different by any chance?

The Minitrix Ivatt 2-6-2T dating from 1974 was a good model and may be better than the present offerings for durability, haulage power, ease of maintenance and ability to stay on the track. The other thread was about the Bachmann 2-6-4T in which I compared it with the Lima N gauge 4MT. This thread is about the worst model locomotive and I submitted the Lima 4MT as a candidate.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'd suggest the original version of the Hornby O gauge Metropolitan Bo-Bo. It looks reasonably like the real thing, but has only 4 wheels and ran off track electrified at a slightly lethal 110 volts. 

 

http://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Metropolitan_underground_locomotive,_110V_(Hornby)

 

Whatever you think about Lima steam locos, they're unlikely to electrocute your dog or little sister. 

[Steamport Southport]

When you consider the age, available technology and size it was (rather than looking at cruelly enlarged photos) then it probably wasn't that bad a model for it's time. It vaguely looked like a 4MT and you didn't have an alternative. Some of the blobs of whitemetal that were masquerading as kits were worse.

 

What else did you have in the late 1960s? Not much. I think that Grafar had just about released the 94XX, J69, a few wagons and coaches.

 

There was still some Lone Star around, but they weren't much better than the Lima model. Look at the Baby Deltic for example.

 

 

 

 

As bad as an 08 with inside frames?

 

That was acceptable pre 1980, not now. It's still in the Hornby catalogue last time I looked. A bit strange considering they have the Lima 09. Even for a Railroad model it's surely had it's day.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Mad McCann]

That bunker would get you from St Enochs to Largs and back. Twice!

 

Dave.

[brianusa]

My goodness!

 

I'd always believed the Hornby 0 gauge No2 Special ( by what measure, who knows?) tank, and No.3 tender engine to be the ugliest models ever, but that is truly horrible - worse, I think, because it is trying to be something, and failing so miserably.

 

Kevin

Kevin, I'm surprised; while these two you mention have no real loco in prototype their recipients would hardly care.  I had the tank engine as a child and when I was able to get one at a later stage of life, I was as thrilled as the first time around.

 

Brian.

[brianusa]

Kevin, I'm surprised; while these two you mention have no real loco in prototype their recipients would hardly care.  I had the tank engine as a child and when I was able to get one at a later stage of life, I was as thrilled as the first time around.

 

Brian.

[Talltim]

Whatever you think about Lima steam locos, they're unlikely to electrocute your dog or little sister.

You say that like its a bad thing

[RJS1977]

robin, this is the second thread you have opened about exactly the same subject.

 

Have you considered the possibility that maybe you are comparing historical technology, design and manufacturing to modern CAD/CAM and not quite grasping the bit in between named "progress"?

 

 

 

Not only that, but the models produced from the 50s to the early 90s were designed as mass-market products for people on a tight budget, unlike today's premium high-fidelity offerings. Rather like comparing a classic Mini with an Aston Martin.

[Steamport Southport]

Were they all that cheap though? Looking at old magazines a lot of the models from the 1950s and 60s seem to be very expensive.

 

 

I remember seeing cabinets of Wrenn models and they were extortionate compared to the super detailed Mainline and Airfix models in the next cabinet. I think they were about four or five times the price. I suppose that was the start of the cheaper models from the Far East era. This was the late 1970s/early 1980s when I was a child. Even then I knew what I wanted and it wasn't the more expensive models, even if I could afford them. Or rather my parents could afford them as presents. Even the Lima models that get a lot of stick seemed better.

 

 

Jason

[PatB]

Although it looked dreadful the price of a second hand one is between £25 and £40 so perhaps it runs well.

 

No, it didn't. I was given a secondhand one for my eighth birthday and even at that tender age I quickly realised that it was a heap of rubbish. I think it "worked" for approximately a month.

 

Whilst I can't speak for the accuracy or otherwise of price guides, I do find myself constantly amazed at the prices that horrible early N rubbish seems to fetch on Ebay. Auctions too, not just BIN chancers like everyone's favourite Studebaker enthusiast.

Edited October 5, 2016 by PatB

[Robin Brasher]

In the 9th edition of Ramsay's Catalogue the authors have valued the Graham Farish 2-6-4Ts on page 337 at between £40 and £55 and the Lima 2-6-4T on page 451 at between £25 and £40. The Graham Farish model looks and runs better so it is better value for money.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Robin Brasher

[Jon Fitness]

I see your Lima 4MT and raise you this...

 

The real thing looked faintly ridiculous but this...

JF