Updating 'Nellie'

[Corbs]

One of my Nellie/Pollys became the basis for an Avonside 0-6-0ST project, as yet unfinished but hope to get back on with it soon.

[Crantock]

Please excuse the quality of the pictures but I think I have refined the art of Nellification.

 

First take your Nellie body and apply Mr Muscle to remove paint.  Then remove moulded handrails with a knife.  If modelling an industrial variant consider removing lamp brackets and coal rails.  Replace handrails with wire.  Remove front steps. For a mainline version add grilles to the rear windows (Mainly Trains - ceased trading). Add drawhooks and vacuum gear to taste.  Repaint.

 

For the chassis It had too many gaps that needed filling.  I used brass strips to create mounting blocks for a DCC Concepts chip and stay alives in the cab.  Also created a mounting block overlay to allow outside cylinders to be fitted.  These were made from brass tube and nickel silver strip slidebars using a jig.  Yes I know an outside cylinder 0-4-0 is a minority but hey.   

 

This in itself was educational as you realise that the slide bars need to be pointing at the centre of the axle and there needed to be a point on the body to support them. 

 

The original wheels were scrapped. Care is needed to not twist the chasses when removing. The replacement was easy.  The gear was extracted and remounted on a 9/64ths Romford axle with gnarled centre (again Mainly Trains - ceased trading).  Just visible is the crude washer behind the wheel to maintain clearance. The front axle was a standard Romford in bearings.  The wheels were 16mm plastic centred cheapest available.  The coupling rod was simply a Romford crankpin washer soldered into the original crankpin.

 

To fill up the rear of the chassis I used Comet Models Stanier sandboxes with oversize sandpipes added and front ones soldered behind the cylinders.

 

Pickup is a strip of copperclad with a the copper removed from a middle strip using a slitting disk and 2 countersunk mounting holes.  33 Thou wire provides 4 pickups.  Obviously replaced the coupling with Bachman.

 

I have 6 of these and 5 spare bodies for either pseudo BR or industrial.  The Industrials have some A1 models number plates on them and are In BR Sherwood Green with black roofs and smokeboxes.  ie as close to No 27 as can be done.

[RJS1977]

Start with a black body, and there's no lining marks!

 

As for a display - hell, I've got a lot of them.....blue, yellow, red, bright blue, bright red, black, top tank, 'wrong' numbers for the colour.....all because Nellie was my first loco when a kid, and I found a mint boxed 1959 version a few years ago (I'm a '59 model!) for not a lot of money.  They kind of get to you.

 

Yes, they do get lonely on their own....

[bertiedog]

The 9/64th (3.57mm), Triang axle replacement type for taking Romford or Markits wheels is still available from Markit. They do a plain or knurled, the knurled is used if the Triang gear is retained.

If this course is used then there are no bearings to add, but they do run steel on steel.

Even if your sticking to 00 the wheels are not really able to run on anything but code 100 track, code 75 is to fine. But you can just machine down the existing flange in a lathe, or mounted on a mandrill in a drill, by filing and sanding down the flange to modern size. The wheel type with steel tyres are made of hardened steel though,it will file or machine, but is hard.

For simple restoration, most Triang wheels run true, it is knocks that break the insulation bush that causes wobbles, the bushes can be replaced.

[Pebbles]

The old Triang TT3 gears have the correct pitch and it maybe possible just to change the worm for a single start, thereby reducing the gear ratio from 1:13 to 1:26.

[Crantock]

Incidentally, another easy update is the Dock Tank. Here the wheels do fail and clunk along the sleepers.  The cheap solution is to use 14mm coach wheels with the original gears soldered onto a brass tube that's as close as you can to 2mm inside and 9/64ths outside.  Soldering the join required a bit of heat but a ceramic hob does the trick. Care with the light as the DCC current is higher voltage. 

 

Somehow they lack the beauty of Nellie.

 

The Nellie upgrade (without cylinders!) also basically works for the other diesel shunter but it's even less a looker.

[New Haven Neil]

I have always wondered about Triang single start worms.  When I was a teenager I got given a rather old Jinty, from someone having a clear out (not a modeller, just a family), an unlined one with solid wheels.  t had a single start worm motor and ran superbly - this got removed and ended up in a newer chassis under a Wills J39, which also ran superbly.  So why did this one old engine have a single start worm?  it surely came out of the factory like that.  I must still have it somewhere, no idea what it is in now, I haven't unboxed my old trains since we moved 14 years ago.

[bertiedog]

Zenith were the company that made the motors and machined the gears for Rovex, who were bought by Lines Bros to form a part of Tri-ang.

 

Most Zenith motors were single start worms, the worm being contained within the frame of the motor, The pitch allowed a 40:1 gear ratio, and was too high for toy use, which demanded more speed.

 

Rovex chose the 13:1 two start to increase the the spacing between centres to about half the thickness of the new X series motors. The lower ratio increased the speed. From memory the best set was the Lord of the Isles set, single start 20 to 1 I think.

The first motor bogies used a single start with the resultant smaller gearwheel, to fit the smaller gears.

 

 Two start gears will run with the a single start in a crude way, the contact face of the teeth is all wrong, as the pitch is wrong.

Romford higher ratio gears are smaller diameter, and the motor must be tipped up to reach the gear contact line. This can foul the body in most cases.

 

The other solution is to add spur gears to the axle and add a lay shaft higher up with Romford gears on it, The nose of the Xo4 is raised a bit ti fit, and there is usually space to do it.

 

Other than that use a PWM controller to gain full low speed control.

Stephen

[New Haven Neil]

Mmm, still doesn't answer where my single start worm came from though!  It was an XO4, standard early 60's, in a standard loco, and they meshed and ran beautifully.

[bertiedog]

Mmm, still doesn't answer where my single start worm came from though!  It was an XO4, standard early 60's, in a standard loco, and they meshed and ran beautifully.

It is the single start worm from the motor bogie, who's gear is half the diameter of the two start gear. As the diameter is half, the pitch matches the larger gear, although the pressure angle contact is technically wrong.

 

Stephen

[New Haven Neil]

It is the single start worm from the motor bogie, who's gear is half the diameter of the two start gear. As the diameter is half, the pitch matches the larger gear, although the pressure angle contact is technically wrong.

 

Stephen

 

I can only presume it dropped into the wrong box in the factory and got fitted to the wrong motor. It ran at a very nice speed for a model, not a toy!

[melmerby]

The single start worms were sold as a replacement for the two start type at one time.

I have a few knocking around.

The do work quite well, even if the contact angle is wrong causing offset wear on the gear!

 

If you get the correct bushes you can use 1/8" axles with the original Triang gear by bushing that as well.

 

The chassis for my Wills 94XX had a 5 pole replacement motor with single start gear and bushed gear & axles.

You could do the same with Nellie.

 

Keith

[bertiedog]

Outside Cylinders anyone? A few minor dimensions are wrong, (well all of them!), but it would look so much better.

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

 

Not too bad a match once the cylinders are in place with valve gear. The body really does not need altering, just a few additions to improve Tri-ang's vision of an 040 model loco...well all right, a toy to them at the time. the connecting rods need slimming down and much smaller crankpin retaining nuts.

 

No problems with the mid period versions in using the wheels fined down for scale 00 or P4/S4 standards. The early sintered solid back wheels should really be changed, and later may not machine as well as the separate rim type.

 

Stephen

[exet1095]

Polly.jpg

 

Not too bad a match once the cylinders are in place with valve gear. The body really does not need altering, just a few additions to improve Tri-ang's vision of an 040 model loco...well all right, a toy to them at the time. the connecting rods need slimming down and much smaller crankpin retaining nuts.

 

No problems with the mid period versions in using the wheels fined down for scale 00 or P4/S4 standards. The early sintered solid back wheels should really be changed, and later may not machine as well as the separate rim type.

 

Stephen

 

Now, if I could find some RTR valve gear like that I 'd have a go at building a GWR steam railmotor!

[bertiedog]

Why not make the valve gear? a few strips of Nickel Sheet, or a sheet ( Eileens do it), and a fret saw, a set of needle files to shape the parts in soldered together pairs, drill set for the holes, with a clockmakers hand chuck to hold them, pivot pins made from domestic lace pins in brass or nickel. The pin is soldered on with the two rods kept apart with manilla envelope paper, it stops the solder creeping and soldering the lot solid.

 

Make the parts a bit over length, estimated from the model and photos and trim to fit. All the parts can be sanded and fettled to a good finish, far better than commercial products.

 

The rear guide hanger can be made in brass sheet, with a fret saw, the square guides from N/S section available from Eileens

Cylinders? wood, or plastic or metal, the wood covered with shim brass sheet, Cylinder ends, old brass washers or disks or cut out with fret saw.

 

If no nickel, then make in brass, add lots of flux and heat to take the modern lead free tin solder, add lots, and then reheat and wipe away the excess with a damp cloth... it leaves a magnificent tin surface that is 100% durable, Also works with mild steel to make it totally rust proof. Best heat for the job is a small gas torch on low flame.

 

About two evenings worth at most, finally fit on loco, glue with epoxy, fill odd dings etc., with car body filler around the cylinder mounting. The rear hanger is the worst to mount, but can be sawn in two, and each inner end soldered to a plate, that can be glued or screwed to teach chassis side.

 

Stephen.

[Nearholmer]

Bertie

 

That looks very good, better than the old idea of using Brittany's valve gear, which I did in the 70s. What valve gear is it? Scratchbuilt? Computer graphic trickery?

 

Kevin

[bertiedog]

Bertie

 

That looks very good, better than the old idea of using Brittany's valve gear, which I did in the 70s. What valve gear is it? Scratchbuilt? Computer graphic trickery?

 

Kevin

Photoshop, it is only a mock up, no dimensions were checked at all, build up and measure as you go may be best as no drawing of the real thing is ever going to match Pollynellieconnie !

[RJS1977]

Now, if I could find some RTR valve gear like that I 'd have a go at building a GWR steam railmotor!

 

Indeed, I've built a steam railmotor with a modified Airfix autocoach body on a Nellie chassis. Mine hasn't got any valve gear either!

[bertiedog]

Now .......there's an idea, a K's GWR Autocoach is on Ebay at the moment, which could be made to fit the back of the Pollynellieconnie quite well, a bit free lance, but practical in P4 where the joint does not have to move so much.........

 

Actually the Auto coach is winging it's way here already from Ebay!  The Chassis is powerful enough for the weight of the whitemetal K'S Kit, which barely needs modification except where it joins the loco unit. Might need a brass chassis, and vertical frame coach end as the metal is rather soft.

 

Stephen

[exet1095]

Why not make the valve gear? a few strips of Nickel Sheet, or a sheet ( Eileens do it), and a fret saw, a set of needle files to shape the parts in soldered together pairs, drill set for the holes, with a clockmakers hand chuck to hold them, pivot pins made from domestic lace pins in brass or nickel. The pin is soldered on with the two rods kept apart with manilla envelope paper, it stops the solder creeping and soldering the lot solid.

 

Make the parts a bit over length, estimated from the model and photos and trim to fit. All the parts can be sanded and fettled to a good finish, far better than commercial products.

 

The rear guide hanger can be made in brass sheet, with a fret saw, the square guides from N/S section available from Eileens

Cylinders? wood, or plastic or metal, the wood covered with shim brass sheet, Cylinder ends, old brass washers or disks or cut out with fret saw.

 

If no nickel, then make in brass, add lots of flux and heat to take the modern lead free tin solder, add lots, and then reheat and wipe away the excess with a damp cloth... it leaves a magnificent tin surface that is 100% durable, Also works with mild steel to make it totally rust proof. Best heat for the job is a small gas torch on low flame.

 

About two evenings worth at most, finally fit on loco, glue with epoxy, fill odd dings etc., with car body filler around the cylinder mounting. The rear hanger is the worst to mount, but can be sawn in two, and each inner end soldered to a plate, that can be glued or screwed to teach chassis side.

 

Stephen.

Wow!

[bertiedog]

A few railmotors that vaguely look a bit suitable!!!

 

 

 

 

 

The one at Halifax looks about right......

 

Stephen

Edited October 21, 2016 by bertiedog

[Crantock]

Polly.jpg

 

Not too bad a match once the cylinders are in place with valve gear. The body really does not need altering, just a few additions to improve Tri-ang's vision of an 040 model loco...well all right, a toy to them at the time. the connecting rods need slimming down and much smaller crankpin retaining nuts.

 

No problems with the mid period versions in using the wheels fined down for scale 00 or P4/S4 standards. The early sintered solid back wheels should really be changed, and later may not machine as well as the separate rim type.

 

Stephen

Good but not quite a model of the prototype that would need the toolbox/sandbox repositioning.  So why not compromise and just have outside cylinders (an improvement) but inside valve gear.  Outside valve gear, outside cylinder 0-4-0s were very rare.  Indeed is this unique in standard gauge?  Moving the valve gear inside makes for a simpler cylinder and avoids the eccentric crank and rod etc.

[Nearholmer]

Fairly unusual, because there wasn't much call for 'modern' locos as small as 0-4-0T with mainline companies, but not unique, especially if you count industrials into the set.

 

Here is one that would look really nice in 0 or 1, I think http://www.semaphoresandsteam.com/p889354804/h5F5267BC#h5f5267bc

 

The GWR had some of the same class, and the MIdland Deeley 0-4-0T is suspiciously similar.

 

K

Edited October 21, 2016 by Nearholmer

[bertiedog]

There were dozens of exceptions to having the gear inside, one survivor is 060 Belleraphon , with outside Stevenson valve gear, and most Cramptons had outside valve gear. LSWR 101 has outside gear, so why not the Polly? The GWR had Panniers with outside valve gear, and plenty of industrial locos were so fitted. Most of the railcars shown in the earlier posting are outside valve gear.

It is really no trouble to make, just takes a bit of skill, but anybody can learn the skills.

Stephen