Updating 'Nellie'

[melmerby]

. The MRRC 5 pole motor is a good drop in replacement,

Bit hungry on current compared to modern motors.

 

Keith

[Edwardian]

Yep, early 1970s. I bought one then, still have it, and it still runs quite nicely.

 

Can I make a plea on behalf of poor little Nell, and all her sisters?

 

Please don't saw them up; they have a working-class beauty, all of their own, and a heritage not only in the LSWR C14, but the Bassett Lowke 112 tank. Simple, but effective engines, from a simple but effective (when not on strike) era.

 

Those things at the front are smokebox wing plates, and are entirely typical of Victorian and Edwardian locos, built prior to a change in smoke-box design convention.

 

K

 

I can only agree.

 

It is a lovely body, just as it is.  On my childhood railway, my Devon creamery somewhat improbably ran to its own locomotive, and a blue Hornby Nellie was the dairy's 'small industrial'.  And, you know, it was, of all things, those Victorian wing plates that captivated me.

 

On my 'to do list' is the production of a freelance locomotive, using the 'Nellie' body, un-violated because she is sufficiently attractive as she is, but marrying her to a new chassis.

[BG John]

those Victorian wing plates that captivated me.

The prototype was Edwardian .

[rockershovel]

I've always had a soft spot for these little locos, and I do like the 0-6-0 conversion..

[BG John]

I wonder what combining with bits of Smokey Joe and GWR 101 would produce. When I get round to chopping my collection about, I'll probably have various leftover bits!

[cobach47]

no problem running on code 100 if you increase the back to back to 14.2 - 14.5mm

[hayfield]

Bit hungry on current compared to modern motors.

 

Keith

 

 

Keith

 

For a direct easy replacement will give much better performance that the old X03

 

I do agree new motors with Highlevel or similar gearbox are a hard act to beat, that's why in my opinion an etched chassis may be better

Edited October 15, 2016 by hayfield

[Edwardian]

The prototype was Edwardian .

 

Oh you hopeless pedant!!!  Although the feature survived quite late on the SW, as Drummond seemed to share my fondness for them, wing-plates are also characteristic of older, Victorian designs.  I suspect that is what Kevin meant, as did I; merely that it's a nice old-fashioned feature.  Given that all my other locomotives were Churchward or Collett designs, it was quite a contrast!

 

[smiley face]

 

As the Kinks once observed "We are the Triang Nellie Preservation Society" 

[Nearholmer]

There's a danger I'm going to come over all nostalgic, and build a little retro-layout for mine to run on. The slippery slope begins with getting it out from the cupboard.

 

K

[New Haven Neil]

Don't, you'll start me off....

[BG John]

At least mine doesn't work, so needs to join the queue for workshop space before I can do anything with it.

[bertiedog]

Thinking back about the P4 version, used to test the concept after the articles in the model press, I am pretty sure I still have it tucked away in a box somewhere, it was never sold, and ran on the P4 layout in the late 80's, so I will look it out, and see if it runs, which it would anyway after attention to oil and a clean. It had a bit of thinning of the plastic around the cab entrance, and round front spectacle windows, with brass rims. It also made brake shoes, and pull rods, three link couplings, but also wired buffers to hall non standard items.

 

Stephen

[hayfield]

I am still thinking perhaps the Southeastern Finecast crane tank chassis might fit this body, does Caley Coaches produce a 4 wheeled loco if so one of these could be adapted if available separately  

[Nearholmer]

Prompted by this thread, I found a guy selling rewound and reconditioned X04 motors on eBay. He does them with either an original-strength, or neodymium, magnet.

 

I think that one with a neo magnet will have higher torque at low-speed, but a lower top-speed, so might work quite well in a loco like this, where the problem is overcoming "stiction" in the worm-drive when starting, and there is no want to go fast.

 

Kevin

[BG John]

Prompted by this thread, I found a guy selling rewound and reconditioned X04 motors on eBay. He does them with either an original-strength, or neodymium, magnet.

 

I think that one with a neo magnet will have higher torque at low-speed, but a lower top-speed, so might work quite well in a loco like this, where the problem is overcoming "stiction" in the worm-drive when starting, and there is no want to go fast.

 

Kevin

This one?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/00-Hornby-TRIANG-XO-4-TURNTABLE-MOTOR-NEW-BRUSHES-REWOUND-ARMATURE-SPARES-/201690215202

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/00-TRIANG-Hornby-XO4-MOTOR-5-POLE-NEO-MAGNET-RECONDITIONED-TESTED-VGR-spares-/201691964537

 

Probably fair prices considering the work involved, but when you can buy motors from China for pence, knocking up a mounting for them to replace the XO4 is tempting!

[locomad]

 

 

Did this about 20 years ago straight forward repaint handrail note filler has dropped out of some holes

[bertiedog]

Found the Nellie, in bits in fact, the chassis is complete and runs nicely, but needs a spot of oil. I think the body was off to do some more detailing, and fitting new sprung buffers. The motor was as I thought, fitted with ball races, and a new single start worm gear of 50:1, which was made to Tri-ang's gear centres, I do not know who made them, but might have been Romford.

The body on the Nellie has been lowered about 2mm, as Tri-ang made most buffers heigh standard at about 3mm out

 I will re-assemble and test it out

[Nearholmer]

Maybe it's time for a National Nellie Rally, where as many as possible would be assembled in one place, then cavalcade around a layout.

 

K

[hayfield]

Maybe it's time for a National Nellie Rally, where as many as possible would be assembled in one place, then cavalcade around a layout.

 

K

 

Or next years RM Challange

[RJS1977]

Maybe it's time for a National Nellie Rally, where as many as possible would be assembled in one place, then cavalcade around a layout.

 

K

 

On the Tri-ang demo layout at Warley?

[bertiedog]

Age has got at the plastic of the body on the Nellie I found, it is deteriorating on the main flat surfaces, maybe as it was S/hand it had be treated with strippers or an unsuitable cleaner. The paint is flaking off taking the surface as well.

 

I have got another Nellie on its way from Ebay, mid production with the wheels with steel tyres, and will use the best bits to make at least one, and use the spare chassis for another loco. The same improvements can be added to the new one, windows, coal rails, handrails, feedwater valves, brass parts for whistle and safety valves, plus brakes and chassis details. The only difficult thing to hide is the large body retaining screw in the coal bunker base, may pay to fill and find another way to secure the body back.

 

The boiler daylight under the barrel is pointless as the chassis is behind it. The doors can be removed and replaced with thin brass ones, and wire handrails. Cab detail is impossible if the Triang Xo4 is retained, but possible with a modern can motor, which would clear the boiler backhead.

 

The wheels are the see through spoked wheels made of a sintered steel, with a hardened steel tyre, with hard plastic bushes on the axle to insulate.

 

This type of Tri-ang wheel can be rim insulated, by removing the tyre in a press or vice, and lathe turning the wheel centre casting a bit smaller to allow a paper insulation strip to fit. It is soaked in epoxy before refitting the rim.

 

The centres can be bored out and brass centres added with a new hole to suit the axles, making them a bit more accurate and wobble free.

 

The wheel is converted to P4 by moving the whole tyre outwards till the centre line of the existing tyre matches the P4 position. The wheel is then machined to match P4 profile, with front and back to P4 thickness.

 

If you are using replacement wheels or 1/8th axles, then the axle holes can be bushed to take the smaller 1/8th axle. The altered Triang wheels can be fitted to 1//8th axles if the centre has been changed as above, with a brass bush.

 

The advantage of changing the axle is to fit 1/8th gearsets, much wider range made for 1/8th or 3mm.

 

If you intend fitting ball races, then use 4mm races and sleeve to take 1/8th axles, or if 3mm, then 3mm races can be used.

 

The pickups bear on the back of the wheel rim, so it pays to polish the area on the rims to a very good standard, and use dual pickups on each wheel, using phosphor bronze wire or sheet.

 

The rough finish on some original Triang wheels wore out the pickups very quickly indeed.

 

The entire chassis unit is suitable for P4, and can be thickened buy sanding flush each side and glueing on black plastic sheet to the right thickness. The bottom can be shaped to the profile of the springs, the rest simply knife trimmed back to the original profile. The glue used should be a slow epoxy like Araldite. The new sides will now take polystyrene parts like the brakes, best made in plastic for insulation. Also sand pipes brackets and guard irons can be glued to the black polystyrene.

 

The strange front spectacle plate windows are done with a wedge of thick plastic glued with solvent, let dry out and redrill the holes, and sand the front flush, before fitting brass rims.

 

The side tanks can be sanded flush with "wet or dry" emery paper glued to lolly sticks to keep it flat, start with 80 grit and work up to 1000grit to get a perfect finish. It removes the moulded lining. Using the paper wet will work better, it prevents clogging up. The final fine 1000grit is used dry.

 

The motors can be serviced at home, or replaced etc, they are even easy to re-wind should you want lower ampage, with finer wire, and Star winding the poles. It is only my opinion, but the MRRC replacement can be a rough runner, they tend to jerk into life, and draw too much power. Romford made a replacement in 5 pole for a while.

 

Almost any smaller Chinese can motor can be fitted in the space, but will need a small bracket made. as well as suitable sleeves to fit the gears, unless changed. Slimmed down gearboxes like branchlines would fit between the frames, as standard ones will not.

 

Stephen

[New Haven Neil]

Start with a black body, and there's no lining marks!

 

As for a display - hell, I've got a lot of them.....blue, yellow, red, bright blue, bright red, black, top tank, 'wrong' numbers for the colour.....all because Nellie was my first loco when a kid, and I found a mint boxed 1959 version a few years ago (I'm a '59 model!) for not a lot of money.  They kind of get to you.

[Graham456]

Start with a black body, and there's no lining marks!

 

As for a display - hell, I've got a lot of them.....blue, yellow, red, bright blue, bright red, black, top tank, 'wrong' numbers for the colour.....all because Nellie was my first loco when a kid, and I found a mint boxed 1959 version a few years ago (I'm a '59 model!) for not a lot of money.  They kind of get to you.

SNAP, apart from the year of manufacture for me, but all the other things apply to me as well and I still have my third birthday present Nellie it's amazing the versions out their if you want a cheep loco to collect, I took it to extreme and married a Nellie ...well Nell !

[Flying Pig]

I think this is the conversion John means http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82968-niles-mostly-freelance-bodging-bench-coach-wagon-bodging/?p=1763373

 

I have also seen a conversion described somewhere (which I can't now find) using the 'Smokey Joe' chassis, which since that is made of plastic is fairly easy to shorten.  You will still have to lose the front steps from the Nellie body to fit over the cylinders.

 

HTH

 

Moxy

Another one on the same Ontracks 0-6-0t chassis here. It does make a very attractive industrial, with plenty of customising options for the hard of heart.

[BG John]

I only bought my first ever one quite recently, and it doesn't work! Haven't got round to finding out why yet. Stephen's description of converting to P4 is interesting though, so maybe I should use it to practice doing the same, rather than my original plan of converting it to O-16.5.