Possible New Use for Class 442s - Alliance Rail

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Don't SWT make additional Wimbledon stops (on mainline services) when the tennis championship is on at Wimbledon?

[jonhall]

SWT do stop fasts at Wimbledon for the championship, but it does decrease line capacity, and these days on the SW mainline the fast is fast from Surbiton (but in fact mostly Woking) and the slow is all stations Wimbledon inward.

 

For those that may not have visited Wimbledon recently, they have stripped all the buildings off the island platforms and installed a galvanised fence down the middle* of the platform so that access to the fast line is very difficult - its as a suicide prevention measure - IIRC Earlsfield has the same on the up-slow/down-fast island.

 

*Actually nearer the fast line so that there is more room to circulate on the slow platforms.

 

Jon

[ess1uk]

If Waterloo station is going to get rebuilt then how is there room for this?

[beast66606]

Railtour with 442 heading my way over Xmas

 

http://www.vintagetrains.co.uk/rail-operations-group-one-last-task/

[petethemole]

Latest news on the Alliance bid. They are part of the Arriva Group. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14949803.Lower_fares_and_money_back_if_you_have_to_stand__Firm_hopes_to_launch_cut_price_rail_service_for_Hampshire/

 

Non-stop peak time journeys from Eastleigh to Waterloo should be a selling point.

[Adam]

All very interesting, though I'm still not sure how they access Waterloo reliably - particularly with the forthcoming remodelling work - and whether the knackered 442s are really the tools for the job. With new stock so (relatively) cheap at the minute, one wonders whether that would not be a better option? Similarly, while stops at Eastleigh might be a selling point, could the station take the extra vehicular and access traffic? This is surely one of the reasons that Parkway exists: personal experience of travel by bike and car through Eastleigh at busy times suggests that Eastleigh's traffic system isn't up to it.

 

Adam

Edited December 7, 2016 by Adam

[D854_Tiger]

All very interesting, though I'm still not sure how they access Waterloo reliably - particularly with the forthcoming remodelling work - and whether the knackered 442s are really the tools for the job. With new stock so (relatively) cheap at the minute, one wonders whether that would not be a better option? Similarly, while stops at Eastleigh might be a selling point, could the station take the extra vehicular and access traffic? This is surely one of the reasons that Parkway exists: personal experience of travel by bike and car through Eastleigh at busy times suggests that Eastleigh's traffic system isn't up to it.

 

Adam

 

 

The Eastleigh and Hook stops have probably been included to sufficiently differentiate their product from what is already offered by SWT.

 

I believe the service has to fulfil a need, not currently catered for in a significant way, a regulatory requirement before go ahead can be granted.

 

It's the same reason their Blackpool service would stop at Trent Valley stations not so well served by Virgin currently.

[Adam]

The Eastleigh and Hook stops have probably been included to sufficiently differentiate their product from what is already offered by SWT.

 

I believe the service has to fulfil a need, not currently catered for in a significant way, a regulatory requirement before go ahead can be granted.

 

It's the same reason their Blackpool service would stop at Trent Valley stations not so well served by Virgin currently.

 

I quite appreciate that: I lived in Southampton and commuted to London until very recently and am well familiar with that. The fact is that Airport Parkway is a mere mile away from Eastleigh and has excellent road - including bus - links to much of Southampton, Fareham, Eastleigh and Chandlers Ford and the motorway avoiding the congested town centre approach roads and Eastleigh station has extremely limited parking as it is: I'm not sure that the borough and the retailers would appreciate their car parks for shoppers being filled with commuters. I know nothing of Hook but would agree that it lacks fast services to London. If this service is to be viable these are secondary questions really. The key ones are the 442s an adequate tool for the job? And, can capacity between Wimbledon and Waterloo cope? I don't have answers on those, but I suspect the answer to the first is 'maybe not' or at least, not without a lot of money being spent on 'em (and then, why not new trains?) and the second is extremely problematic.

 

Adam

[uax6]

The One Last Task railtour has been cancelled, due to gauging issues.....

 

http://www.vintagetrains.co.uk/rail-operations-group-one-last-task/

 

Andy G

[Ron Ron Ron]

Alliance Rail's proposed "Grand Southern", open access rail service between London Waterloo and Southampton Central, has been rejected by the ORR.

 

The Class 442's were not available either and alternative stock for the proposed service was being sought.

 

 

 

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/southampton-london-open-access-proposal-rejected.html

 

 

Official notification here....

 

http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/28450/2018-08-01-grand-southern-decision-letter.pdf

 

 

 

.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[RFS]

Alliance Rail's proposed "Grand Southern", open access rail service between London Waterloo and Southampton Central, has been rejected by the ORR.

 

The Class 442's were not available either and alternative stock for the proposed service was being sought.

 

 

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/southampton-london-open-access-proposal-rejected.html. 

 

 

Official notification here....

 

http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/28450/2018-08-01-grand-southern-decision-letter.pdf

 

 

 

.

 

Thanks for posting this but your first link gets a "404 not found".  This is the correct link https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/southampton-london-open-access-proposal-rejected.html

Edited August 1, 2018 by RFS

[woodenhead]

Wonder if SWR might now be in a weaker negotiating position, they probably would have had Alliance on their mind when discussing difficulties with the current franchise

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks for posting this but your first link gets a "404 not found".  This is the correct link https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/southampton-london-open-access-proposal-rejected.html

 

 

Thanks.

I don't know what happened there.

Now sorted. 

 

 

.

[DavidB-AU]

Seemed a bit odd they didn't have a Plan B.

 

Cheers

David

Edited August 2, 2018 by DavidB-AU

[woodenhead]

Plan B is wait for DFT to wire the route then propose Mk4 coaches with a 67**

 

**as there won't be an electric loco available

[wombatofludham]

London North Western will be withdrawing their 350/2s soon, which should be straightforward to convert to turd rail. Also, who is blagging the SWR fleet of Juniper units and the 707s when they come off lease? Given some of the Junipers used to run Gatex it should be possible to refit them to a high quality interior, and I'm sure the 707s could be refitted nicely.

 

Are any Class 319s still knocking around not being Northernised or Dieselised? They were nicely refitted by Connex for the Brighton expresses back in the late 1990s so could provide an option.

 

Then of course the West Anglia Class 377s will be coming spare in the not too distant future, unless some other operator like C2C has claimed them . I suspect finding some replacement emu stock might not be as difficult as it first seems.

[TravisM]

London North Western will be withdrawing their 350/2s soon, which should be straightforward to convert to turd rail.

Wonder why the 350/2’s can’t be kept by LNW and return the 350/1’s as they already have 750v DC equipment fitted unless it’s been removed? I think the 319’s that Northern haven’t taken have all been earmarked for conversion and who’d want to be bounced around at high speed on those awful seats on a 707, unless it had either four P&W JT3C’s or RR Conway’s and cruised at 30,000ft Edited August 3, 2018 by jools1959

[Ncarter2]

Wonder why the 350/2’s can’t be kept by LNW and return the 350/1’s as they already have 750v DC equipment fitted unless it’s been removed? I think the 319’s that Northern haven’t taken have all been earmarked for conversion and who’d want to be bounced around at high speed on those awful seats on a 707, unless it had either four P&W or RR Conway’s and cruised at 30,000ft

350/2 only cleared for 100mph running I believe, 350/1 110mph. That was definitely the case when I was still on the West Coast.

707’s would be a good fit, especially if the seats can be changed, relatively new fleet.

Even the 458’s could be retrofitted for the use intended.

[Zomboid]

There's going to be no shortage of trains they could use, but more importantly they need to find a different way of seasoning the accounts so that it passes the "not primarily abstractive" test. I doubt they'll manage that, as Southampton to London via Basingstoke is not exactly under-served by SWR, unlike the open access operations which have had some sustained success.

[DY444]

350/2 only cleared for 100mph running I believe, 350/1 110mph. That was definitely the case when I was still on the West Coast.

707’s would be a good fit, especially if the seats can be changed, relatively new fleet.

Even the 458’s could be retrofitted for the use intended.

 

Iirc the conversion of 350/2 to 110mph is either in hand or imminent.

 

458s were re-geared to 75mph during the rebuild to 458/5 so reverting them to 100mph capability for long distance services requires new gearing and changes to the traction system software.  In other words more expensive.

[SouthernMafia]

Reading this thread just after reading the SWR woes thread which states there is not enough power to run the intended SWR timetable, surely its not a surprise this has died since another operator adding more trains will make the lack of power issue even worse. Granted a few extra trains from Alliance could probably be accommodated but saying Alliance can run trains and SWR can't is probably a political headache for someone?