Class 142

[newbryford]

6 hours ago, Jim76 said:

This is great news Charlie and whilst I would certainly be up for at least one Provincial example it is disappointing (though understandable given current circumstances) that the original GMT and Brown/Cream ‘Skipper’ liveries aren’t being produced as originally planned. I might however be tempted by another Provincial example particularly if it has Network North West logos as suggested by Mark. Jim

 

All Charlie has said is that he (Realtrack) is starting with the later variant with the three-rib roof - 142051 upwards - often referred to as 142/1s. He hasn't denied that he won't do 142/0s.

 

Knowing Charlie and Arran's Yorkshire and Scottish roots, they won't particularly spend money on other variations unless they've earned it - so until they sell a few 142/1's with single leaf doors....................

 

 

 

[66738]

2 hours ago, charliepetty said:

The original plan was to do all 4 Northern Liveries (Including the White Livery) then the tooling was to change to the earlier version you refer to.  But we were stopped by another manufacturer who makes a 156!

 

Thus we needed another big seller to bring the project into profit so we had to do the Provincial to achieve the funding for a 142 & 144.  Saying that we have sold nearly 3000 156s in total and we will be doing the modified lights now we are in a position to do the Northern Liveries, due to the company going out of buisness.

 

The 142 Only ever had the earlier lights.

That is excellent news Charlie. Apart from the Welsh 142’s, yes, the Up North 142’s only had the old style Wipac lights. Unlike the 144 units, with Right/day, Left/Night, Tails, Markers functions, the 142 originally had the 4 position desk switch. Off. Tails. Markers. Head (left/night only). This was fine, until the one and only headlight failed. If a portable headlight was not at hand (normal operation was permitted), if only markers were lit, and perhaps a bardic on the lamp bracket, line speed was limited to 20mph. Not ideal at all! It was not until the 1st incarnation of Northern that saw one vehicle of 142015 fitted with trial Right/day, Left/night, marker, off, 5 position switch. (And the right/day light cluster headlight wired up). The trial was deemed a success. And after a while, all 142’s were fitted with said switch, and wipac mod.
66738

Edited March 9, 2020 by 66738

[charliepetty]

2 hours ago, 66738 said:

That is excellent news Charlie. Apart from the Welsh 142’s, yes, the Up North 142’s only had the old style Wipac lights. Unlike the 144 units, with Right/day, Left/Night, Tails, Markers functions, the 142 originally had the 4 position desk switch. Off. Tails. Markers. Head (left/night only). This was fine, until the one and only headlight failed. If a portable headlight was not at hand (normal operation was permitted), if only markers were lit, and perhaps a bardic on the lamp bracket, line speed was limited to 20mph. Not ideal at all! It was not until the 1st incarnation of Northern that saw one vehicle of 142015 fitted with trial Right/day, Left/night, marker, off, 5 position switch. (And the right/day light cluster headlight wired up). The trial was deemed a success. And after a while, all 142’s were fitted with said switch, and wipac mod.
66738

When were these lights modified.

 

Charlie

[charliepetty]

142010 operated for some time in this Livery with the old lights.

Along with 069/072/073/075/080/081 & 085 all upto 2009/2010 period.

Edited March 10, 2020 by charliepetty

[charliepetty]

[Jim76]

9 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

All Charlie has said is that he (Realtrack) is starting with the later variant with the three-rib roof - 142051 upwards - often referred to as 142/1s. He hasn't denied that he won't do 142/0s.

 

Knowing Charlie and Arran's Yorkshire and Scottish roots, they won't particularly spend money on other variations unless they've earned it - so until they sell a few 142/1's with single leaf doors....................

 

 

 

Thanks Mick. Not being a Pacer expert (!) what timeframe did the prototype run from / to? Were they like this from introduction or were these a later modification? Cheers, Jim

[amwells]

On 08/03/2020 at 11:47, charliepetty said:

We have decided to produce the following units, these are based on the second series, these are different Hornby model so 'IF' the decide in the current trend to beat us to it!  then the model offered by Realtrack is different

I’m not sure why you would be that worried about the re-release of the old ‘model’, regardless of livery, as they are for two different markets - having both 156 ‘models’, they are a world apart (and appropriately price differentiated). 
 

unless you think H will be releasing an all new 142 to the standard of yours (which is an altogether different situation).

[The Black Hat]

10 hours ago, charliepetty said:

142010 operated for some time in this Livery with the old lights.

Along with 069/072/073/075/080/081 & 085 all upto 2009/2010 period.

 

A lot of the units mentioned there were former North East sets - it allowed some of the units that had been fitted with seats like those done by Northern spirit to be sent North and swapped with some that were bus seat fitted to be sent south. These were then changed so that all Wales 142 and 143 were all fitted out with the chapman seating. That's if my memory is correct.

The Northern fleet has seen the bench seating adapted by having a larger cycle area with the rest of the units left as they were. Some (about 4) I think survived with no changes to their layout. While the former North East sets had the bus seats changed for 2+2.

The standard of this model will be brilliant - I have great confidence in Charlie and the team delivering a stunning unit. Their previous models have set the bar very highly - so much that now we are all looking at seat layouts and day and night modes. It will be interesting to see if they do model some that have the air intake on the front of the cab (142060 and 142062 - bench seats) or if they are modelled without it (142091 - Northern Spirit seats). If they were Id be interested in getting some of '91 and renumbering them.

 

[The Black Hat]

On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 11:26, charliepetty said:

Probably we will have:

1 X Northern

1 X Northern Serco Abellio

1 X Unbranded

No final decisions yet, so everyone have your say !!!!!!!!!!!

 

Charlie

 

A vote here for 142091 to have Northern branding.

 

A vote too for provincial with 2 leaf doors.

[newbryford]

12 hours ago, charliepetty said:

When were these lights modified.

 

Charlie

 

I don't think 66738 is saying that the lights themselves were modified - just the operation of them.

 

When the 14X/15X were introduced, they predominantly used one headlight and when it failed - it was found that the other didn't work (as it hadn't been used for some time)  and then the train was speed limited/failed until fixed. (The 14X may only have one headlight initially fitted, but this was certainly the case for 156s)

By introducing a day/night system, this "rotated" which headlight was used. And effectively made sure that both headlamps were regularly tested.

In service, this means a headlamp failure would not put a unit out of service as the alternate headlight could be used.

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by newbryford

[The Black Hat]

Are you sure its not that the wipacs were fitted but one main headlamp under the side opposite the driver was never connected initially. So the units always just ran with one light and a lamp in case of failure? Then later they were both fitted as working?

I recall somewhere someone saying one light was a dummy and not used. Then was fitted out as working later during a refurb.

[charliepetty]

52 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

I don't think 66738 is saying that the lights themselves were modified - just the operation of them.

 

When the 14X/15X were introduced, they predominantly used one headlight and when it failed - it was found that the other didn't work (as it hadn't been used for some time)  and then the train was speed limited/failed until fixed. (The 14X may only have one headlight initially fitted, but this was certainly the case for 156s)

By introducing a day/night system, this "rotated" which headlight was used. And effectively made sure that both headlamps were regularly tested.

In service, this means a headlamp failure would not put a unit out of service as the alternate headlight could be used.

 

 

 

The light were modified, as today these are the new lights.

[66738]

50 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Are you sure its not that the wipacs were fitted but one main headlamp under the side opposite the driver was never connected initially. So the units always just ran with one light and a lamp in case of failure? Then later they were both fitted as working?

I recall somewhere someone saying one light was a dummy and not used. Then was fitted out as working later during a refurb.

Yes this. The second mans side (day/Right) headlight was not connected. Only drivers side (left/Night) was wired up. This was the only headlight. 142015 had a new rotary 5 position switch fitted, and the 2nd mans side headlight wired up. The wipac units themselves were not changed. 
66738

[66738]

13 hours ago, charliepetty said:

When were these lights modified.

 

Charlie

2011/2012/2013 ish?

66738

[66738]

17 minutes ago, charliepetty said:

The light were modified, as today these are the new lights.

Yes, the Welsh ones got modified to LED + Zenon wipacs (Just like the 144’s did) but the Northern 142’s always kept the original style wipacs.   MHT   THM
66738

[newbryford]

8 hours ago, 66738 said:

Yes, the Welsh ones got modified to LED + Zenon wipacs (Just like the 144’s did) but the Northern 142’s always kept the original style wipacs.   MHT   THM
66738

 

AH ok - ta to you and Charlie for the clarification- I never took too much notice of 142s as they were everywhere around us up here in The North......

[MRDBLUE17]

Your right Mick about 142’s being everywhere. I was 7 in 1987 and very clearly remember my first trip on a working from Barrow to Lancaster before carrying on to Poole. It was a blue and orange pair from platform 2 which in itself was quite unusual with most services coming in and departing again from Platform 1. My horror that it wasn’t a battered 31 and rake of coaches or Class 108 DMU! 

 

33 years ago I should probably get counselling to get over it! But really looking forward to recreating in model form.

 

Cheers

Mark

[The Black Hat]

Ive grown up with 142s every where from being young. It was these that started most journeys on the railway and as a result, I developed a massive soft spot for them. It was more of an interest in branch things too, as these where the traction from my home town. Yes 91s, HSTs etc where getting attention but I never overlooked the units that got me there to see those too.

Will have to get some photos of them scanned... took photographs of loads of them!

[steve1023]

Disappointed about no chocolate and cream 142. Shame.

[The Black Hat]

40 minutes ago, steve1023 said:

Disappointed about no chocolate and cream 142. Shame.

Yeah I can understand, but no Tyne and Wear 142 either. To be honest I can see where Charlie is coming from and I would think the next run would include the chance to do a 142/0 as it were. I see it here as the chance to minimise differences between styles so as to get a run of units done. That way they can be made and have a lower risk of errors creeping in - when logos styling and details are not done exactly by the factory.

Its nice to see the 142 is being done. Hopefully, if it sells well, Charlie and then have it ready for further runs soon along with his 156 and 143/144.

[arran]

HI All

 

We cant do everything at once .

 

Regards Arran

[charliepetty]

The most requested at shows were Original Provincial, GMPTE Orange & Northern. 

 

The next run can be more liveries !!!

 

Charlie

[mdvle]

10 hours ago, steve1023 said:

Disappointed about no chocolate and cream 142. Shame.

 

Speaking as a bystander, the goal will be to stay in business so that Realtrack can continue providing models that people want for years to come.

 

The best way to do that is to produce the most requested liveries first, to ensure that the sales are there to make the project a success.  Then in the future additional liveries/versions can be contemplated.

 

Even though I personally want the Skippers, I am not surprised they aren't in the first batch - they spent so little time in the south-west that they simply won't be a priority for many modellers in that region - much like the Class 155 being rather unlikely for the same reason (too short a lifespan other than a niche operation).

 

 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

I do appreciate what some people are saying with regards to the liveries that they want to see produced on the 142s first. 

 

But we have to have 'consideration' and give and take' for others because simply several liveries even if popular can't all be produced in the first batch. Also we have to think about that Realtrack do produce a variety of liveries to try and accommodate everyone across their different DMUs. So far we have had one batch of 143s and 144s a few years ago in which a few liveries were produced to try and please the majority. With the more recent 156s Charlie and Arran have again attempted to please the majority as the different batches are produced. I missed out on the 143s and 144s and so far their have been no 'must have' liveries for me on the 156s, but some will have bought some 143s and 144s when released and will already have bought some of the 156s.

 

So now with the 142s it's my turn if you like to buy a Realtrack model and it will be my first, due to the Northern livery in whatever capacity been produced in batch one. Had Northern been a livery destined for batch two production I would have been waiting again, but now my waiting time is less because it will be produced sooner than I anticipated. 

 

My point been here is manufacturers can't please everyone regarding liveries in their first batch of a newly tooled model. Not just because of the wealth of liveries that some units have worn over the years, especially the 142s, but because financially as a business model it doesn't work. Pleasing a majority of customers in batch one means that their is significantly less demand for a second batch in the near future because most customers needs have bene satisfied really early on. In essence this means that the tooling is effectively sat with no use which means that in effect Realtrack and other manufacturers can't cover the costs of producing models as quickly, which could potentially mean waiting years for another batch until the manufacturer has the finances to commit for another run. It also means that for those not pleased in batch one, those customers do not get to buy a Realtrack product, which means that their is still a market for the product but with different liveries, but with less people pleased from batch one this is not enough people to ensure that another batch that sells well. Consequently, Realtrack are disappointed because they can't do another run in the near future and some customers are disappointed because the model of the choice wasn't produced in the first batch and they may have to wait years for it. In turn some potentially customers are unhappy and their becomes a lack of excitement with a new project quickly. These kind of scenarios are exactly what Realtrack do not want to achieve and thus in the short term some people have to be disappointed that their chosen livery isn't been produced in the first batch but in the medium to longer term their chosen livery will be produced meaning that Realtrack can produce more batches sooner to please more and more people each time. 

 

This comment isn't 'aimed' at anyone, it's just me trying to see the situation from the point of view as a manufacturer and not a customer as I am. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[The Black Hat]

11 hours ago, charliepetty said:

The most requested at shows were Original Provincial, GMPTE Orange & Northern. 

 

The next run can be more liveries !!!

 

Charlie

 

 

Yeah I can imagine those liveries being popular. So will be looking forward to these first and others to follow. Can see a few Northern ones being added for me and if the standard is as high as the 156 then it will be a stunning model.

I dread to think how many more I will be buying... Tyne and Wear Yellow, Regional Railways standard livery, Choc and Cream, provincial... probably even GM PTE / Regional Railways North West Grey...

Crikey!

Edited March 12, 2020 by The Black Hat