London Festival of Railway Modelling, Alexandra Palace, 25/26 March 2017

[Guest]

[Andy Y]

Your queue's not big enough!

 

[ELTEL]

I've no idea what they are queuing for either cos it ain't AP

[Guest]

Don't get me wrong... the older I get, the more I moan. I just have an issue with comments that are made on social media (RMWeb included) without being thought through. What begins as a throwaway criticism might just lead someone (that's put a lot of hard work, time and money into a project) to not wanting to bother again. I couldn't exhibit, but I have nothing but admiration for those that do.

[Enterprisingwestern]

When does the Ally Pally 2018 thread start?

 

I'd start moaning about there not being one if I were you.

 

Mike.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Not surprising if the hobby seems full of miserable old gits who like nothing better than to attack one another's efforts. Who'd want to join their ranks.

 

The funny thing is that you don't seem to get nearly so much negativity from the more specialist shows whether it's ExpoEM or ExpoNG where there seems to be far more emphasis on talking to layout builders and other modellers than on just watching trains moving. I may be wrong but also get the impression that the other modelling hobbies are far less infected with this negativity which is a shame because our hobby encompasses such a wide range of interesting activities from studying architecture and trees to  miniature engineering and the construction of timetables.    

 

I'm not actually sure what proportion of the visitors to a show like Ally Pally are the "general public" but suspect it's a fairly small minority, probably fewer in proportion than a typical local club show, so what it should be giving is a chance to meet other modellers and to see and discuss other ways of doing things. What I personally got from Ally Pally this year, and it was the first for some years when I wasn't on a society stand so could take my time, was some great ideas on lightweight baseboards, spending a decent amount of time watching and learning about weathering techniques (on the DEMU stand) and having a far closer look at 00 live steam than I've done before something I'm not interested in engaging in but still found fascinating - especially as the inventor was there. 

 

David, Just to clarify by "general public" I mean, in this context people with a broad existing interest in model railways i.e. families with train sets, collectors, etc. And then there are those of us who are modeller with narrower specialist interests. At Alexandra Palace and most local exhibitions, I would reckon these "general public" to be in the majority which is why it is necessary for the exhibition manager to cater for them with the selection of layouts and traders.

 

When I was managing exhibitions, I worked out that it was possible to create a matrix that would cover most interests (scale/gauge/era/prototype) with about 30 layouts. One could do quite well with 20 layouts. Realistically one can't view more than that in a few hours of attendance. So when I am at one of the larger shows, I simply ignore the layouts that don't interest me and spend more time with the ones that do. That does not mean that I think the exhibition manager was wrong to invite the layouts that I don't look at because I don't expect him to make me a priority.

[eternaloptimist]

I went to AP with Darius43, having been a regular at Warley for about ten years.

 

the issue at AP is not "more trains" and "run faster", it is run some trains!!

 

I think we saw one layout (big American one) with activity, but nothing else.

 

My observation was that on most of the layouts, the team behind seemed to be supping their drinks and having a coffee...

 

Running to a timetable is fine, but less than an hour between movements would be helpful.

 

Apart from that, the severe overcrowding didn't help.

 

Will I be going again? No.

 

 

[t-b-g]

I've no idea what they are queuing for either cos it ain't AP

 

Perhaps the famous MRJ show way back when. That queue looks very familiar.

[PenrithBeacon]

I cannot understand some of the criticisms here about a very fine show, things happen, things go wrong, and there is a big difference between comment, constructive criticisms, and complaints, of which I for one found none that affected my visit. No show is perfect and it should be fair to comment on issues major or minor, but a few comments on here are very partisan, but to each his own.

Absolutely agree!

[gr.king]

 By 6.30pm everyone was very tired and the layout was up but we hadn't had time to do any testing. It then took over an hour to get to the hotel to find that our table reservation had been lost.

Jamie

 

As one of the potential, but now VERY unlikely operators and contributors of key rolling stock for one of next year's layouts, I find that in particular a highly informative comment. I think that it is un-acceptable to expect operating crews who have travelled from afar to simply get to a show to then be faced with anything more than say 20 minutes travel from/to accommodation for set up and operating days. It's an early enough start to what ought to be a weekend "rest" day even when accommodation is close to hand. Crack of dawn starts and late, tired finishes are no use at all to those of us who also face a working week either side of show, bar the day off without pay that has to be taken on the Friday simply to get a layout there.

 

I also understand that current thoughts regarding the layout with which I would have been assisting are that it will run to a set sequence regardless of whether some viewers feel that not enough trains are running, but that it will at least display notices (for those who can be bothered to look and read) to "manage expectations" by pointing out that true sequence is being portrayed, including pauses, loco changes, addition / removal of other vehicles from trains, shunting moves that block the main running lines etc.

 

i.e. The layout in question will not provide a totally unrealistic continuous spectacle of multiple trains whizzing round to entertain those who have never been taught by the necessary means to stand still, remain patient, and pay attention.

 

I do however have very different ideas of my own regarding exhibition layouts. I personally favour something that provides a regular flow of trains and which is EASY for the operator/s to operate - not so easy as to be boring, but easy enough to avoid or limit operator fatigue.

[long island jack]

 What begins as a throwaway criticism might just lead someone (that's put a lot of hard work, time and money into a project) to not wanting to bother again. I couldn't exhibit, but I have nothing but admiration for those that do.

 

 I've been thinking this for quiet a while, why do we bother, do these people know what goes into exhibiting a layout, setting up, standing on your feet for 16 hours , getting grief from SWMBO, all to try and please some moaning bas***ds.

 

being an American HO modeller, our layouts are usually a small percentage of most exhibition (there are a few exceptions) and you do get a bit fed up with some peoples attitude, but when you get a person or persons asking question about construction, operations etc it then seem worth the while!.

 

I think in future i'll be more selective, as to which shows to attend, maybe concentrating on those that are American friendly

 

Ray  

[George Woodcock]

Hello

 

      John, Paul and I had a good weekend at Ally Pally with Towcester. we had a couple of minor glitches on Saturday but they were sorted  and Sunday was a trouble free day. There were the odd  operator errors, mostly by me, for which I apologise. However if any-one on here had an issue with the operation of the layout I would welcome their input on how we can improve things. I am very much in favour of constructive face to face comments not hiding behind the anonymity of the web. I'm sure this goes for all the other owners/operators of layouts who give up their time delight and entertain people. Also if we are having a problem with the electrics please feel free to pop round the back and show us what the problem is. Finally if you have nothing better to do you can always go get the teas in for us as we don't have time ourselves; three a day is our normal average. Belatedly thanks to Warners for inviting us, to their staff for making it possible and to the MRC  and Ally Pally stewards for making it such a pleasurable experience. See you all again in 2019 when we return with Fenchurch St Peter.

 

                                                                                                                                     Cheers

 

                                                                                                                                              George

[railroadbill]

Sorry to lose you.  If it helps to clarify...

 

The vehicle on the right of your top picture, 12KK41, is a Fuchs six-wheeled AFV, used for Chemical Recce on operation Telic.  It just happens to be the one of the 11 in the Army that was used by our Squadron back in 2003.

 

Warriors  (the AFV on the left)are used by armoured infantry battalions - and we did not spend any time parked-up in their company, although we did get rather close to a the Duke of Wellington's Regiment's vehicles whilst they were having a fairly major firefight.  The Land Rover Wolf in the second picture resembles most of ours, except all of them had twin VHF radio fits, and therefore had TUAAM boxes and antennae on each wing.  Additionally, we had HF antennae on the bracket you see next to the driver's side of the wagon.  We named ours after our favourite pubs - mine was the "John O'Gaunt at Horsebridge" - something that got me a couple of free pints on my return!

 

Paul

Just been looking at pictures of this layout again, and the detail is really good, also the weathering on the vehicles.  Just noticed the water bottle on the table behind the AFV for instance. It tells a story in a small space very well.

Can I ask what size the baseboard is?  !:35 looks a good scale for NG with a lot of accessories figures etc available.

What is the Fuchs like to drive? (Probably very uncomfortable!)

And great story about naming your land rover after a pub and getting free drinks - frankly I think we all owe you and your mates a pint or two!

[bigP]

--

Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Trainshed Terry]

When does the Ally Pally 2018 thread start?

 

It just did.

 

Hat, Coat  RUN 

 

Terry.

[Pacific231G]

David, Just to clarify by "general public" I mean, in this context people with a broad existing interest in model railways i.e. families with train sets, collectors, etc. And then there are those of us who are modeller with narrower specialist interests. At Alexandra Palace and most local exhibitions, I would reckon these "general public" to be in the majority which is why it is necessary for the exhibition manager to cater for them with the selection of layouts and traders.

 

That's fair enough Joseph and if anyone thinks being an exhibtion manager is easy they're really deluded. I do think the balance between public entertainment and sharing the hobby (not mutually exclusive of course) is different for different types of show but we should be doing the latter to some extent at any show. If the pressure to keep something running at all times means you can't stop to talk to someone interested in the layout then that's a bit of a shame as the hobby is not just about running trains. At the same time chatting with fellow modellers and doing relatively little operating may be OK at the more specialist shows but probably not at a more general one. Having said that, what I got most from at AP this year was being able to spend some time watching and discussing weathering techniques- no electrics to go wrong there but found plenty else of interest and stayed till closing time - always a good sign!!

 

The funny thing is that I model Euopean H0 and H0m yet one of my favourite shows is ExpoEM. That ought to have no relevance for me but I always come back from it feeling inspired. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Pacific231G

[exet1095]

Just been looking at pictures of this layout again, and the detail is really good, also the weathering on the vehicles. Just noticed the water bottle on the table behind the AFV for instance. It tells a story in a small space very well.

Can I ask what size the baseboard is? !:35 looks a good scale for NG with a lot of accessories figures etc available.

What is the Fuchs like to drive? (Probably very uncomfortable!)

And great story about naming your land rover after a pub and getting free drinks - frankly I think we all owe you and your mates a pint or two!

Thanks - not my layout, just commenting on the great pictures.

 

The Fuchs is the easiest AFV to drive - it's automatic and has power steering. Comfortable seats(?!?) and aircon. It wasn't my wagon, but I did drive it around to a few VCPs etc... The Sultan was knackered, and still petrol. It needed to be tow-started and was hot, rattly and uncomfortable. Still, it had a certain presence and was very useful for us.

 

Water... Endless drinking from 1.5 or 2l bottles of warm water, except when we didn't have enough. We used empty bottles with the bottoms cut off to stick together to make urinals - "desert roses" as we knew them

[Darius43]

Don't worry Darius, the Donald wasn't for you. 

 

Hi Paul,

 

No offence taken - I actually thought your "Donald" post was quite funny and responded in kind.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[PhilH]

What we sometimes forget is that, as the saying goes, one man's meat is another man's poison....by which I mean for every one who bemoans the lack of trains running there will be at least one admiring,as has been said in preceding posts, buildings, weathering, perhaps just the general vista.

 

Why not accept that everything is not to everybodys' taste, or liking, or even mood? Shrug your shoulders and move on....

[polybear]

Your queue's not big enough!

 

APQ.jpg

I once saw someone (who appeared  to have had a stroke) go from the back of the queue to the front) at about 5 to 10, and then asked the steward if there was a chair he could sit on, just inside the door. She stood her ground and politely refused, pointing out that the doors would be opening at any minute. Once inside, he made a miraculous recovery and promptly headed straight for the Bachmann scrum.  Barsteward (I might have spelt that wrong). Perhaps one day it might actually happen to him in real life......

[Gordon H]

Yes they were very friendly and helpful and it was unfortunate to see some of them getting verbal abuse from some other exhibitors / traders who were trying to get in to the Great Hall before their allocated time slot when they were asked to park up and wait.

 

There was no 'trying to get in' involved at all as far as I was concerned.

When I arrived Sunday morning, about 7:50, I was advised by the man at the rear car park entrance that I could park up, but not enter the hall until 8:00 (not the official 8:30, which I only found out about later).

8:00 arrived, and those that were hanging around at the time (including Andy York) found - unlike last year when the security staff were actively there to prevent it - that there was apparently no reason why we shouldn't enter.

So it was then rather galling to be asked to leave having already been in and set up for the best part of 10 min - let alone the fact that it can take a similar length of time to shut things down when computer systems are involved.

All in the name of an apparent 'Health & Safety Check', of which there was little evidence while we waited by the doors and watched the staff standing around - and even window shopping on certain stands.

No doubt the staff were somewhat embarrassed by this lapse in the security arrangements, which might go some way to explaining their 'nicer than nice' attitude at the time.

[sharris]

...I think we saw one layout (big American one) with activity, but nothing else...

 

 

Will I be going again? No.

 

I should draw your attention to my pictures of Teign House Sidings (I think way back on about page 9 of this thread) - there is definitely motion blur on some of the trains!

[sharris]

RANGERS: When does the Ally Pally 2018 thread start?

 

It just did.

 

Hat, Coat  RUN 

 

Terry.

 

Has it started in Ealing yet? 

[polybear]

I went on the Sunday (I've always gone on a Saturday previously) and, whilst any bargains & s/h items that might have interested me had long since gone, I found it a much nicer experience altogether, as did my OH.  Some really nice layouts (and several outstanding ones too), with one or two that (to my eye) fell into the "train set" category but no doubt interested others more than they did me.

 

One downside for me was that some of the regular traders were missing, noticeably in the "finescale" hall (if that's the correct term).  Previous years have seen specialist traders such as High Level Kits, SE Finescale etc in attendance, but not this year   It's my understanding (based on inside info, say no more) that stand rents increased significantly (e.g. from 800 to 1K) this year, and I believe that tables/chairs/leccy are charged extra on top.  I appreciate that this is a commercial venture as well as a showcase and that the books have to balance, but I hope this isn't the start of a slippery slope where traders (specialist in particular) start dropping out due to costs, followed by visitor numbers reducing due to lack of favourite traders etc.  A 1k stand rent, plus fuel, accommodation, subsistence, salaries etc. etc. can easily hit 1.5 to £2K with no trouble - that's a lot of kits, wheels etc. to sell before you even start to break even. 

[Colin]

I went on Sunday and would make the point that in my experience there are still plenty of bargains to be had, you just have to perhaps look a little harder. I came away with three terrific bargains, one was used but in excellent nick, the second was secondhand (from the MRC club stand) but had never been used and was half the price of a new one, plus a heavily discounted new loco off the Kernow stand - result! OK, it was all bog-standard OO stuff, but I reckon I saved myself a fair few quid compared with the prices of identical items on EBay. Also, it was nice to get round everything with ease as by early afternoon the crowds had definitely thinned out, and IMHO there really was something for everyone with a fine selection of quality exhibits. Looking forward to next year!