CSX2004 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Hello. Have just installed a new Peco electrofrog H0m points.it´s wired for DCC and the frog is powered with a frog juicer. My problem is that when I run my 0-6-0 steam locomotive it hesitates on the points.Have cleaned rails and wheels with no result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Did you check the pickups on the loco? If there's room for it, adding a 2nd, independent set might be worth your trouble Yes,I did and they´re ok.It´s a tight fit,no room for a second set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Have you bonded the switch rails to the stock rail, if not it could be a dodgy contact with the switch blade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Have you bonded the switch rails to the stock rail, if not it could be a dodgy contact with the switch blade. Installed jumpers between stock rails and the closure rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Use a piece of glass or other truly flat object to detect any distortion in the point. From a rigid 0-6-0 chassis you only ever get three points of contact at any one time, even on electrofrog, there will be moments when one of those is on insulating material. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Hello. Have just installed a new Peco electrofrog H0m points.it´s wired for DCC and the frog is powered with a frog juicer. My problem is that when I run my 0-6-0 steam locomotive it hesitates on the points.Have cleaned rails and wheels with no result. Hi I'm sure that can be very annoying but fitting a stay alive capacitor should cure this problem. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Use a piece of glass or other truly flat object to detect any distortion in the point. From a rigid 0-6-0 chassis you only ever get three points of contact at any one time, even on electrofrog, there will be moments when one of those is on insulating material. Can´t do that because it´s installed on the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Also check that all the wheels of the loco are touching the track at the same time. You can do this by putting the loco on a flat surface like a sheet of glass. Do you have another loco you can try on that particular point ? Also make sure that the juicer is actually working to power the frog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Can´t do that because it´s installed on the layout. If you switch off the power you can use the edge of a steel ruler to see if all the rails are level across the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Hi I'm sure that can be very annoying but fitting a stay alive capacitor should cure this problem. Norman Do I need to buy a new decoder?.Now have installed a decoder with Next18 connector. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Could the flangeways be causing tight spots for the loco wheels. I used to run small (~1mm wide) file through them to ensure that the clearance is good. Perhaps consult the specs tables for the wheels and track and see if your loco and the track meet the requirements. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Also check that all the wheels of the loco are touching the track at the same time. You can do this by putting the loco on a flat surface like a sheet of glass. Do you have another loco you can try on that particular point ? Also make sure that the juicer is actually working to power the frog. Yes,have tried another loco and it runs well.The juicer works ok,the frog have power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Do I need to buy a new decoder?.Now have installed a decoder with Next18 connector. What make /model decoder have you fitted It should be possible to add a stay alive Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toplink@()1989))(( Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 On one of my layouts a loco ( Hornby Class 25 ) juddered and stalled on one set of points, I noticed the back of one set of wheels were touching the switch open rail, I tweaked the rail and it cured the problem, mind you it was DC so I am not sure if DCC can have the same effect. Cheers, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 What make /model decoder have you fitted It should be possible to add a stay alive Norman Esu LokPilot micro V4.0 Next18. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Check the back-to-back distance of the wheelsets. Use callipers, the distance must be 10.2 mm. Nothing less, slightly more is acceptable. Good point here.Btw.Do you know where to buy a H0m track gauge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Esu LokPilot micro V4.0 Next18. Here you go - simple solution. All LokSound and LokPilot decoders of the 4th generation series can be connected to the PowerPack, such as LokPilot, LokPilot micro, LokSound, LokSound micro or LokSound Select , LokSound Select Micro and LokSound Select Direct. All decoders have soldering pads on which the PowerPack´s wires need to be soldered. The respective manuals of the ESU decoders described show the typical soldering locations. Refer to Figure 1 for the most common wiring diagram. In order to be able to reach the soldering surfaces, it is permissible to remove the heat shrink sleeve here. Best this happens through cuts opening the corner of the concerned decoder’s heat shrink. Leave the remaining heat shrink sleeve on the decoder. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 Fitting a stay-alive is not really the ultimate cure as it masks the real issue. It looks like there is a problem in the wheel-rail-pickup region. I've had locos that seem to work on all wheels on the rolling road, but as soon as a curve is introduced, the axles move sideways and the pickups no longer pick up. I've also had locos that work on curves, but struggle on straight track for similar reasons. Often this is emphasised in the relatively slack standards for the likes of 00 and other RTR gauges. Just see how much you can move stock sideways before the flanges limit the lateral movement. (This "slop" also causes issues with buffer locking and couplers such as Kadees being misaligned) And yes - I'm a 00 modeller. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR_NZ Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Does the fault happen with any other loco's? Rules in / out - loco / trackwork. Micromark do a track inspection car - something similar may be available for HOm - it may show problems with the point. http://www.micromark.com/ho-track-inspection-car-with-metal-wheels,8025.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Fitting a stay-alive is not really the ultimate cure as it masks the real issue. It looks like there is a problem in the wheel-rail-pickup region. I've had locos that seem to work on all wheels on the rolling road, but as soon as a curve is introduced, the axles move sideways and the pickups no longer pick up. I've also had locos that work on curves, but struggle on straight track for similar reasons. Often this is emphasised in the relatively slack standards for the likes of 00 and other RTR gauges. Just see how much you can move stock sideways before the flanges limit the lateral movement. (This "slop" also causes issues with buffer locking and couplers such as Kadees being misaligned) And yes - I'm a 00 modeller. Cheers, Mick Sorry Mick I have heard this said before about stay alive not being a cure but it does work and does solve the problem of poor pick-up so why not use it. What are the alternatives being suggested? More pickups better suspension systems the choice is yours. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 Sorry Mick I have heard this said before about stay alive not being a cure but it does work and does solve the problem of poor pick-up so why not use it. What are the alternatives being suggested? More pickups better suspension systems the choice is yours. Norman I said that stay alive is not the ultimate cure. Maybe my phrasing was wrong. How about - Prevention is better than cure? Stay alives may well be a solution (cure) to the problem, but the prevention is better pickups and suspension/track/etc to improve the wheel/rail/pickup interface. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Shropshire Lad Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 Sorry Mick I have heard this said before about stay alive not being a cure but it does work and does solve the problem of poor pick-up so why not use it. What are the alternatives being suggested? More pickups better suspension systems the choice is yours. Norman If it is juddering due a momentary short caused by out of tolerance wheelsets, or a track issue, then a stay alive probably won't work. Much better to fix the problem rather than try to mask it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Fitting a stay-alive is not really the ultimate cure as it masks the real issue. It looks like there is a problem in the wheel-rail-pickup region. I've had locos that seem to work on all wheels on the rolling road, but as soon as a curve is introduced, the axles move sideways and the pickups no longer pick up. I've also had locos that work on curves, but struggle on straight track for similar reasons. Often this is emphasised in the relatively slack standards for the likes of 00 and other RTR gauges. Just see how much you can move stock sideways before the flanges limit the lateral movement. (This "slop" also causes issues with buffer locking and couplers such as Kadees being misaligned) And yes - I'm a 00 modeller. Cheers, Mick I think this is the problem,there´s too much sideways play in the axles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSX2004 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Does the fault happen with any other loco's? Rules in / out - loco / trackwork. Micromark do a track inspection car - something similar may be available for HOm - it may show problems with the point. http://www.micromark.com/ho-track-inspection-car-with-metal-wheels,8025.html No,only with that loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 No,only with that loco. So the conclusion must be that there is something wrong with the pickups or the suspension system. Either fix that if you can or alternatively do the simple job of fitting a stay alive. The chip is designed to accept one. and you can get on with running trains happily. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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