Superglue revisited

[BWsTrains]

Hi everyone.

 

I appreciate there are many old blogs on this topic; I've perused several and want to pull together key points combined with my own experiences and practices. BTW my professional life was spent as a chemist.

 

Which glue?

I've tried many sources from the 6 for $2 from our local Dollar shop right up to the big name brands. IMO there is very little difference in the underlying chemical involved as far as adhesion is concerned. The cheapest superglue will meet your average modeller's and handyman's needs.

 

How should I store my superglue?

This is actually 2 questions,

 

1) How should I store unopened glue? (i.e. those 5 other tubes from the 2 Dollar shop).
Answer - Superglue has a relatively limited shelf life even unopened, so I store all my unopened tubes upright in a small airtight glass jar in the freezer. This way I've seen no deterioration in quality in later tubes.

Also probably best to avoid buying "run out" discounted bargains.

 

2) How should I store opened glue?

Issues: as widely noted on RMWeb, Superglue setting is catalysed by water (i.e. water starts its reaction) so storage should be planned with this in mind

Storage in a fridge or freezer would be the worst thing to do because chilling and warming the opened tube would increase the rate of water vapour ingress .

Ultimately, however careful one is, opening and reclosing a tube is bound to allow water in sooner or later - hence good reason to go for cheapest Superglue and be prepared to throw.

 

In the mini "toothpaste type" tubes that my glue comes in, an apparently very full tube actually has a much smaller amount of liquid in it with an inert gas making up the balance.

Once opened, this protective gas is dissipated

 

Answer - Given all these issues, once I've broken the seal, with the tube upright I express out all the gas, carefully folding the tube over as I go, (much as one used to fold aluminium toothpaste tubes - showing my age!). I keep doing this until liquid appears in the nozzle (or at the tip if opaque). Now recap; stand upright until needed. Immediately after use, recap tightly without sucking any air back in and store at room temperature in an upright position.

 

Using this technique I get through almost an entire tube before its adhesion qualities deteriorate.

 

 

What if my superglue doesn't (glue)?

 

Answer - Now I'm speculating a little, but my guess is if the glue comes out as thin as when it was first opened, very little can have happened chemically to deteriorate its performance.

 

In this case there are 4 possible reasons for lack of adhesion:

1)   The surface is not suitable for Superglue - polythene, polypropylene and the like are not glued effectively.

2)   The surfaces don't match closely, Superglue needs to set in a very fine film so a bad match = a bad or no join

3)   The air is too dry - often a problem here in Summer with very low relative humidity. Breathe "Haaaa" on the applied glue then join (taking great care to keep lips at a very safe distance)

4)   I'm wrong! - and your runny glue has gone off. If you're buying the cheapie stuff, there is a very simple solution when a tube fails.

 

 

Other issues

In my browsing here I came across at least one reference to blowing into a tube before storage to preserve it!  This is an absolute NO, your lips will be glued shut. I repeat this alert in case some poor reader comes across such terrible advice by chance.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by BWsTrains

[Kylestrome]

Exception to storing 'superglue' rule 2:

I have a 20g bottle of 'Vitalbond CA Thin', bought from Eileen's Emporium at least 5 years ago (it could even be longer), which is still about a quarter full. It still has a consistancy like water and sticks anything it comes near to. Where do I keep it? In the 'fridge! Once or twice I have given the screw top a good clean out with nail polish remover (Acetone), but otherwise it seems to be breaking all records for superglue longevity!

 

I've been through a lot of so-called superglue and it seems that it is most often the container that causes problems. The nozzles usually get clogged up causing difficulty using the glue and letting air, in which makes it go off quicker. The Vitalbond bottle is really well thought out and just works the way it should do.

[sb67]

Interesting stuff. I've gone through loads of it and now resort to buying cheap stuff from the pound shop and accepting that it wont last long.

Steve.

[BWsTrains]

Exception to storing 'superglue' rule 2:

I have a 20g bottle of 'Vitalbond CA Thin', bought from Eileen's Emporium at least 5 years ago (it could even be longer), which is still about a quarter full. It still has a consistancy like water and sticks anything it comes near to. Where do I keep it? In the 'fridge! Once or twice I have given the screw top a good clean out with nail polish remover (Acetone), but otherwise it seems to be breaking all records for superglue longevity!

 

I've been through a lot of so-called superglue and it seems that it is most often the container that causes problems. The nozzles usually get clogged up causing difficulty using the glue and letting air, in which makes it go off quicker. The Vitalbond bottle is really well thought out and just works the way it should do.

 

Hi,

 

Sounds good. Can't argue with something that works and if the product has a true airtight nozzle that you keep clean then fridge storage is a good idea. Did the product as purchased have a "best By date" by any chance?

 

BTW I think my "trick" of expressing all the gas from the cheap metal tube then keeping it upright works well as there is no head space to fill. The liquid visible in the nozzle during use only retracts slightly afterwards so water ingress is minimal. Sure the nozzle exterior gets some build up, I normally wipe that off with a paper towel but acetone would be good if it gets too heavy.

[Mike Bellamy]

Paul Martin at EDM Models sells a different type of 'superglue' that goes by the name Dr Mike's (and no I'm not Dr Mike !!).

 

See the reviews here which explain the differences and the things it will stick that you sometimes struggle with using ordinary glue.

 

http://www.ngtrains.com/Pages/EDM_Models/Dr_Mikes/reviews.htm#Warranty

 

 

.

[gwrrob]

Exception to storing 'superglue' rule 2:

I have a 20g bottle of 'Vitalbond CA Thin', bought from Eileen's Emporium at least 5 years ago (it could even be longer), which is still about a quarter full. It still has a consistancy like water and sticks anything it comes near to. Where do I keep it? In the 'fridge! Once or twice I have given the screw top a good clean out with nail polish remover (Acetone), but otherwise it seems to be breaking all records for superglue longevity!

 

I've been through a lot of so-called superglue and it seems that it is most often the container that causes problems. The nozzles usually get clogged up causing difficulty using the glue and letting air, in which makes it go off quicker. The Vitalbond bottle is really well thought out and just works the way it should do.

 

Is this the stuff.

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=1449&name=vitalbond-cyano-adhesive-3110-green-superfast&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1008

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=1450&name=vitalbond-cyano-adhesive-3111-dark-blue-thin&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1008

Edited January 7, 2017 by gwrrob

[jonny777]

I use various thick and thin forms of Zap-A-Gap, but have never thought of storage conditions as an issue. I just keep mine in a cupboard at room temperature; although the bottles do tend to lie on their sides which may help prevent drying/clogging of the spouts.

[BWsTrains]

Re Kylestrome and Mike's comments, I need to make it clear that I'm not saying Branded cyanoacrylate (CA) products are no better than generic CA glue. My point is that generic CA glue does it's job in most situations and if carefully stored can be used to the end of the tube.

 

Cyanoacrylate was invented in 1942 and is a family of products, not just 1 chemical. Adhesives manufacturers faced with their chemicals going out of patent find all sorts of ways to improve and promote their products. Think Asprin. Asprin has been around forever and is generic and will work on headaches whoever's you take. Branded may act faster or cause less gastro upset but the basic job gets done whatever you take.

 

If you have a favorite CA product, don't let me disuade you from using it. If new to using CA then try the cheapie stuff first and see how it works.

 

On my point 2 about when CA might not work, some of the more expensive proprietary CAs like Gels may do a better job. I don't have any experience to cite. Over and out!

[BWsTrains]

I use various thick and thin forms of Zap-A-Gap, but have never thought of storage conditions as an issue. I just keep mine in a cupboard at room temperature; although the bottles do tend to lie on their sides which may help prevent drying/clogging of the spouts.

Jonny,

 

In your part of the world, temperatures are such that any breakdown will be much slower than here. Its a chemist's rule of thumb that "typical" reactions run at least twice as fast for every rise in temperature of 10 degrees C (18F) above ambient.

 

Here today our max was 40C and overnight it will get down to around 28C! so careful storage is more of an issue than in the temperate UK. (I'm being kind, I know your climate as I come from W-s-M!). This might well help explain some reports of long lasting CA products in earlier replies.

Edited January 7, 2017 by BWsTrains

[Kylestrome]

Is this the stuff.

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=1449&name=vitalbond-cyano-adhesive-3110-green-superfast&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1008

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=1450&name=vitalbond-cyano-adhesive-3111-dark-blue-thin&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1008

 

 

Yes, the 'Thin' with blue label. I didn't know it could be even thinner (green label)!    

 

Edit: There are no 'use/sell by' dates on mine.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Kylestrome

[The Johnster]

I must have used pints over the years, and thrown away gallons.  But even the 'good stuff' isn't that expensive, so I am not going to waste time looking for cheap alternatives.  That said, I have 2 tubes on the go, a 'good' one from Maplins (I've got one just down the road) with a squeezy applicator which can be very accurately applied, and a poundshop one (just down the other road) that has the counterintuitive advantage of not being very good, so that if I wish to break the bond for any reason a bit of prising with an old flat bladed watchmaker's screwdriver will crack it easily.  Horses for courses.  

 

Some good tips though, especially about storage.  I always store tubed glue upright anyway, but I like the breathing 'haaaa' tip; I won't be unable to resist going a bit Harry Potter waving my hands about and muttering 'adhesavatium bondiculore' or something...

[PhilH]

I bought some rubber reinforced or somesuch, advertised as being one of the strongest bonds going, for quite a lot of money from an industrial supplier. Don't know what I'm doing wrong but can I get it to stick much to much?

 

Nope.

[Spitfire2865]

I have never had CA 'go off' on me. Ive had tubes and bottles knocking around for months and still fine. Admitedly, some were thrown away due to the actual container either gumming up or being unable to get the last few drops out of the bottom. Otherwise, Ive used every bottle Ive owned to its end.

I found Gorrila brand CA good for large and wasteful surfaces.

Though I once made the mistake of purchasing a "superglue pen" which was atrocious and gummed up before I even got a bead out of it.

[BWsTrains]

Regarding shelf life, Wikipedia has a section devoted to it so I'll refer you there, it includes what a manufacturer recommends:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate#Shelf_life

 

Drawing on my time as an Organic Chemist the monomer Methyl-2-cyanoacrylate looks like it'll be a very reactive molecule. Hence short shelf life seems perfectly reasonable.

Variances in what people find with products in real life reflect a whole range of factors including time between manufacture and purchase. A very high tech CA product might have sat on the shelves for years, especially if no date of manufacture or "use by" is offered.

 

If you want cheap CA, look for a store with high turnover, Daiso are a good bet.

Edited January 7, 2017 by BWsTrains

[BWsTrains]

More info on Storage:

 

This article is most instructive regarding usage and storage, both before and after opening.

 

http://www.permabond.com/2014/07/17/storage-shelf-life-cyanoacrylate-adhesives/