GWR Toplights Poll

[Miss Prism]

Much as though anyone reading this thread loves the Toplights, I can't see them appearing in RTR. The priority area is probably the (admittedly somewhat clichéd) B-set, with E116, E129 and E140 being the prime candidates.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

Much as though anyone reading this thread loves the Toplights, I can't see them appearing in RTR. The priority area is probably the (admittedly somewhat clichéd) B-set, with E116, E129 and E140 being the prime candidates.

I fear that you are right Miss P, so if anyone has any Slaters corridor third kits that need a new home please let me know!

[chris45lsw]

Much as though anyone reading this thread loves the Toplights, I can't see them appearing in RTR. The priority area is probably the (admittedly somewhat clichéd) B-set, with E116, E129 and E140 being the prime candidates.

Also E145 (as E140 but 9ft bogies) and E147 (of 1933-36)?

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[chris45lsw]

Not surprising the Pannier moulds are knackered. I wonder how many thousands Mainline and now Bachmann have shifted from those tools! And it would be difficult to significantly improve on the Mainline moulding, which remains remarkable for its time. (Was it 1980 they first appeared?)

 

The 57xx/8750 Churchward/Collett pannier remains an essential though in the RTR oeuvre, and I can understand Bachmann being keen that Hornby (or anyone else) shouldn't steal their GWR cashcow.

I completed the Toplight poll today (first time I came across this thread) but there are some errors/missing better examples in the list of choices IMHO.

 

The corr brake third should, of course, be D47 (NOT E47). 

 

E83 is a 57ft corr brake compo (not a corr compo) and would be a better choice than the 56ft E82 as I'm sure a manufacturer would prefer one length of underframe (ie 57ft).

 

Corr compo E85 is 56ft (not 57ft) so a better choice for the reason stated above would be the 57ft E88 corr compo.

 

The slips are a bit confused!:-

 

F14 was a 57ft single ended slip

F15 was a 57ft double ended slip

F16 doesn't appear to exist?

F21 was 70ft - the only slips built to this length

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[St Enodoc]

Also E145 (as E140 but 9ft bogies) and E147 (of 1933-36)?

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

That would be nice Chris, but with the best will in the world I can't foresee four different types (plus one variation) appearing in RTR. An updated E140/E145 is likely to be the best we can hope for.

 

Nothing to do with Toplights so I'll shut up now!

[chris45lsw]

That would be nice Chris, but with the best will in the world I can't foresee four different types (plus one variation) appearing in RTR. An updated E140/E145 is likely to be the best we can hope for.

 

Nothing to do with Toplights so I'll shut up now!

I wasn't suggesting all these should all be made - merely suggesting that Miss Prism's list to pick one from could be expanded.  Personally if a new model was to appear I'd like an E147 but I'd also be happy to see a re-vamped E140/145.

 

Chris KT

[Neal Ball]

The problem with any consideration about which should be the next choice of R-T-R carriages is that the list could be huge and very diverse.

 

For a company that (tried) to standardise the locos, it seems there was no such consideration with the carriages!

 

The original list of Toplight suggestions came about after i trawled through the various books and came up with the 57ft and 48ft examples, mainly as they would be very different to any recent corridor stock offering. The list was soon added to.

 

As Miss Prism points out at the top of this page, due to the variety / complexity / changes over the years, the Toplight remain a slim choice. It would still be a nice choice though! But I bet if they did get into production there would be immense critics as the same carriage conceivably could have changed immeasurably through the years. The Toplight could have been plated over / panels plated etc. etc.

 

We now have votes from 110 members.

[Coach bogie]

The problem with any consideration about which should be the next choice of R-T-R carriages is that the list could be huge and very diverse.

 

For a company that (tried) to standardise the locos, it seems there was no such consideration with the carriages!

 

The original list of Toplight suggestions came about after i trawled through the various books and came up with the 57ft and 48ft examples, mainly as they would be very different to any recent corridor stock offering. The list was soon added to.

 

As Miss Prism points out at the top of this page, due to the variety / complexity / changes over the years, the Toplight remain a slim choice. It would still be a nice choice though! But I bet if they did get into production there would be immense critics as the same carriage conceivably could have changed immeasurably through the years. The Toplight could have been plated over / panels plated etc. etc.

 

We now have votes from 110 members.

 

 

I agree Neal. I have been building my own and am well into double figures now with no two the same with four different bogies types.  My speculation is GWR South Wales stock as Swindon designed the current Hornby style 57ft Colletts using tracing paper - check out lofty's use of old collett's extended to 70ft. Any experiencd CAD designer could create the 70 footers from the 57 footer digital files with minimal effort.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Pteremy]

May have missed it but can't see any mention of Toplights converted to be 'Camping Coaches', which would provide a variation of some utility (including extending into 1950s)

[Miss Prism]

In an idle moment, I did a quickie tot up of prime candidate B-sets:

 

E116 - 7 pairs (introduced 1924)

E129 - 5 pairs (introduced 1926)

E140 - 41 pairs (introduced 1930)

E147 - approx 52 pairs (introduced 1933)  (with an additional 10 or so vehicles built as 'singles')

[coachmann]

Being realistic, I too consider the chances of RTR Toplight corridor stock is slim to non-existent. To all those members of RMweb who model post 1956 era, take a look through picture albums and play spot the toplight. Toplight coaches were in the main pre-grouping coaches and the paneled versions fared even worse. So while one or even two might be found in a train formation up to around 1953, they were  pretty slim thereafter even on secondary routes like the Cambrian mainline. Rule 1 would have to apply if modelling the popular maroon era. 

[Siberian Snooper]

Anyone have any ideas about how to go about doing the panel lining on the Lake liveried or faux panelling on the steel clad toplights.

[coachmann]

Anyone have any ideas about how to go about doing the panel lining on the Lake liveried or faux panelling on the steel clad toplights.

Good draughtmans ruling pen, gloss enamel paint and loads of practice.

[Clearwater]

I was at the SVR afternoon. Their toplights were being shunted at Kidderminster. Very nice to see; the lined versions particularly are stunning and very visually different from the more commonly observed mark 1s.

 

An rtr toplight may not be perfect but Personally, per the Gate Stock thread, I’m of the view that something’s better than nothing.

[Siberian Snooper]

Good draughtmans ruling pen, gloss enamel paint and loads of practice.

Thanks Coach, but was thinking more in terms of how you set out the size of the "panel " are they a standard size or were there variations particularly on brakes etc. Where there are large blank areas.

[coachmann]

Thanks Coach, but was thinking more in terms of how you set out the size of the "panel " are they a standard size or were there variations particularly on brakes etc. Where there are large blank areas.

Going of photographs of scale drawings, I used to mark out the panels with small yellow dots on flush sided stock. The horizontal lining was then stopped shortly before the dots after which the vertical lining followed, then the corners were drawn in using a lining pen reserved for this particular job. 

 

At Lawrence Scale Models, there was little call for the all-brown coaching stock livery, but lined maroon was reasonably popular. For instance, we produced a lot of Dreadnaughts from Charlton etched zink sides and ends in maroon livery.

Edited November 5, 2017 by coachmann

[chris45lsw]

 

In an idle moment, I did a quickie tot up of prime candidate B-sets:

 

E116 - 7 pairs (introduced 1924)

E129 - 5 pairs (introduced 1926)

E140 - 41 pairs (introduced 1930)

E147 - approx 52 pairs (introduced 1933)  (with an additional 10 or so vehicles built as 'singles')

 

How many E145?

 

Chris KT

[Miss Prism]

How many E145?

 

25 pairs.

[Siberian Snooper]

Going of photographs of scale drawings, I used to mark out the panels with small yellow dots on flush sided stock. The horizontal lining was then stopped shortly before the dots after which the vertical lining followed, then the corners were drawn in using a lining pen reserved for this particular job. 

 

At Lawrence Scale Models, there was little call for the all-brown coaching stock livery, but lined maroon was reasonably popular. For instance, we produced a lot of Dreadnaughts from Charlton etched zink sides and ends in maroon livery.

Coach, thanks for the info, I have a few of the David Geen kits to do in the one day pile and as I model the mid 20s,they will need painting and lining in one or the other. Some while back in one of the threads that you deleted, I remember that you used said that you don't use gold paint for lining, but I can't remember what colour it is that you use.

[coachmann]

Coach, thanks for the info, I have a few of the David Geen kits to do in the one day pile and as I model the mid 20s,they will need painting and lining in one or the other. Some while back in one of the threads that you deleted, I remember that you used said that you don't use gold paint for lining, but I can't remember what colour it is that you use.

Gold is the very devil to line with. I have done it in 7mm on pre-war 'normal' Duchesses along with the adjacent red lining using Classic Gold, but to all intents and purposes, cream is actually better because it can be applied with consistent width lining. I use Humbrol gloss #7 with a touch of yellow added. For yellow lining I use Humbrol gloss yellow (forgotten the number). However, I should add that most lining is applied in cellulose and only the corners are executed in enamel.

[Siberian Snooper]

Gold is the very devil to line with. I have done it in 7mm on pre-war 'normal' Duchesses along with the adjacent red lining using Classic Gold, but to all intents and purposes, cream is actually better because it can be applied with consistent width lining. I use Humbrol gloss #7 with a touch of yellow added. For yellow lining I use Humbrol gloss yellow (forgotten the number). However, I should add that most lining is applied in cellulose and only the corners are executed in enamel.

Thanks Coach.

[Neal Ball]

A year down the line from when this was first launched. So far we have 114 votes, 170 replies and some 6000 views.

 

Whilst the possibility of an rtr Toplight might be fraught with issues, there remains the desire for more variety with our GWR rolling stock.

 

Who knows, maybe the reason Bachmann have withdrawn their GWR carriages is to bring us something up to 2018 standards. Here’s hoping!

[OnTheBranchline]

A year down the line from when this was first launched. So far we have 114 votes, 170 replies and some 6000 views.

 

Whilst the possibility of an rtr Toplight might be fraught with issues, there remains the desire for more variety with our GWR rolling stock.

 

Who knows, maybe the reason Bachmann have withdrawn their GWR carriages is to bring us something up to 2018 standards. Here’s hoping!

 

At the rate that Bachmann is increasing their carriage prices, it'll be 60 pounds per coach.

[Neal Ball]

At the rate that Bachmann is increasing their carriage prices, it'll be 60 pounds per coach.

 

 

That would make a rake or two very expensive, but we are already seeing carriages nudging that way already.

 

When you consider the new Dapol 61xx or Mogul will be £300 odd DCC sound fitted and Bachmann Mk2 carriages at @£70 - £60 almost looks like a bargain!

[OnTheBranchline]

That would make a rake or two very expensive, but we are already seeing carriages nudging that way already.

 

When you consider the new Dapol 61xx or Mogul will be £300 odd DCC sound fitted and Bachmann Mk2 carriages at @£70 - £60 almost looks like a bargain!

I meant to say 100 pound.