jwealleans Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Roxey Mouldings do an etch for the hooks and eyes for side chains and then you'd have to source the chain yourself (Ambis would be my first port of call). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WisTramwayMan Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, jwealleans said: Roxey Mouldings do an etch for the hooks and eyes for side chains and then you'd have to source the chain yourself (Ambis would be my first port of call). Could try Footplate in Kidderminster for the chain - I believe they sell it in long lengths primarily for replicating restraining loads on wagons, but cut to length could well be suitable for the J70s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 For chain, do not forget the model boat suppliers like Cornwall Model Boats or even Langley. Good for bollards as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 25/02/2019 at 01:58, south_tyne said: Sounds great... you will have to share some photos of your layout. I am sure there will be many of us who would like to see more. The more W&U layouts in here the better! As requested I attach views of the table-top line and its fiddle yard as set up to run-in the J70s and investigate the operational side but really I consider the concept is OT to this thread which is purely on the J70s themselves. There was one addition to the layout made to extend the short siding in the fiddle yard before it was all put away. Boyces Bridge is in the bottom left hand corner but in relation to Outwell Basin (right hand side) it is a reverse image to suit the table. I did reach the point of preparing four recycled cardboard sections from cereal packets upon which to develop fixed scenery up to rail level and positioning points to plug-in items higher than track level. I have deliberately avoided having an overhang round the table for the road/canal to avoid accidental damage. Each of the four scenic sections can now be worked on independently and away from the table. Note that trains can only pass at Boyces Bridge by use of the outer tracks - the middle one will only take two vans without clashing with a passing train on the outer line!!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Howl03 Posted March 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2019 My J70 arrived earlier this week. It certainly is a fantastic model that Rapido and Model Rail have produced. just finished weathering it with powders today. Here are a few photos of it on my Ikea Crate micro layout. Regards Paul. 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 On 01/03/2019 at 10:18, coline33 said: As requested I attach views of the table-top line and its fiddle yard as set up to run-in the J70s and investigate the operational side but really I consider the concept is OT to this thread which is purely on the J70s themselves. There was one addition to the layout made to extend the short siding in the fiddle yard before it was all put away. Boyces Bridge is in the bottom left hand corner but in relation to Outwell Basin (right hand side) it is a reverse image to suit the table. I did reach the point of preparing four recycled cardboard sections from cereal packets upon which to develop fixed scenery up to rail level and positioning points to plug-in items higher than track level. I have deliberately avoided having an overhang round the table for the road/canal to avoid accidental damage. Each of the four scenic sections can now be worked on independently and away from the table. Note that trains can only pass at Boyces Bridge by use of the outer tracks - the middle one will only take two vans without clashing with a passing train on the outer line!!! Thanks for sharing, that looks great! You should start a dedicated layout thread as I am sure there would be a lot of interest. The depiction of Boyce's Bridge immediately screams W&U - that track arrangement on a curve is so evocative of the tramway. Look forward to seeing more! it will be a cracking little basis for displaying and running your J70s. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Howl03 said: My J70 arrived earlier this week. It certainly is a fantastic model that Rapido and Model Rail have produced. just finished weathering it with powders today. Here are a few photos of it on my Ikea Crate micro layout. Regards Paul. Paul - super stuff, that looks fantastic. Really impressed with the weathering job you have done. It looks very much at home on your micro layout. 7 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffBird Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I am still waiting for my Version to arrive in the UK. A question - what was the normal headlamp code used in the late LNER/early BR days? Having looked at several photos in the various books I am a little confused. Also, was there a distinction between empty and laden trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I take it you mean mainly when in use on trains on the Wisbech and Upwell. A quick look through photographs on Google suggests either. One lamp on the right hand lamp iron. Whilst looking at the front. Class K - Pickup Goods head code. Or one lamp on the left hand lamp iron. Class J - Mineral or Empties head code. More likely Empties than Minerals. http://www.britishrailways.info/TRAIN AND LOCO WORKING.htm Jason 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Many thanks, Jason, for the lamp data. Talk about a can-of-worms!!! I have been through all my views of the W&U operation in BR days to find that in most the lamps are in the K position even on trains of empties going into Upwell for the fruit season. Only one had the J position and that was for a Wisbech bound train so wondered whether it was all empty! Then there was one with lamps in both left and right irons!!! So when locos ran light did they carry a red lamp in the rear? This may account for seeing double!!! Also in some shunting scenes at Boyces I noted that the diesel shunting from the front end of its train had no lamps at all! For my operations irrespective of train type I am going K for steam and diesel. In discussing the final condition of 68222, CJL alerted me to the single white framed window at the B rear firebox end. Again going through all the views I can find of it, this was with the two white framed windows at the A chimney end and appears to be the condition on return after its last overhaul whilst on the W&U. However, there was only one window frame in position at the B end, the second missing. At some time before scrapping that open window at the B end received a brown window frame probably taken from an earlier scrapped loco. Does anyone know when this took place, please? Also before I continue further detailing my 68222, has anyone considered cutting through the side skirts to remove the skirting from around the steps at both ends as per prototype? If so could you please advise me how you went about it? Colin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 The W&U was very much a rural branchline. I doubt that the loco head lamps were really necessary at all. Once you were on your way down the line, you knew if you were the only train and what sort of train you were. There were no signal boxes - no one else needed to know. I suspect the lamp got put on whichever bracket was nearest to the door that the driver or fireman carrying the lamp, had used. Rural branch lines were like that. I have a photo taken on the last day of the Staines branch showing the rear of the DMU with no tail lamp. I suspect the crew - used to a single railcar - couldn't be bothered to keep switching it from one end to the other when it meant walking the length of a three-car unit. (CJL) 3 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Howl03 Posted March 11, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2019 Thought I would share another photo of my J70 on my other micro layout Rural Goods. Regards Paul. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Now I'm familiar with the operation of "tramways" in the context of electric trams - eg Blackpool or other cities - and I understand the definition of "tramway" in the legal sense in case of the W&U or similar lines. However, the operation of the tramway still bugs me. I'm mainly interested in doing a "might have been" extension to Welney, but in BR days. However, I am thinking of invoking Rule 1, where the passenger tram still ran, instead of finishing many years before. The fact that passenger tram runs to a timetable (at least nominally), and that the line is much longer, will mean that there would inevitably be more than one train on the line at once. This is of course what would have surely happened in those earlier days anyway? I know that some of the books about the W&U have timetables for the daily goods, (and I can't believe that that was more wishful thinking than actually happening), but what happened on busier days in the fruit season? Would there be a nominated passing place where they waited to pass one another? Was there any form of control, say by telegraph - which surely would have been a formal working documented somewhere? I can't see two trams meeting on single track and one reversing out of the way! Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 AIUI, the WA& was always only ever "one engine in steam". At only 6 miles long, a reasonably intensive timetable could be maintained just by sending a train out and back from Wisbech regularly. As far as freight was concerned, peaks were dealt with mainly by simply lengthening the trains. A hypothetical extension (which is what I'm building, too!) would presumably have required something a bit more sophisticated. But only a bit more; a token system would have been perfectly adequate. My guess is that had the proposed extension to Welney actually been built, Upwell would have been the token exchange point. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 There are pictures of more than 'one engine in steam' on the W&U. Just on cursory flick through my books, there's a picture of passenger and freight trams crossing at Boyce's Bridge and another shot of diesel and steam side by side at Upwell. I'm pretty certain I've seen a picture of three locos side by side at Upwell in the peak fruit season, too. The books don't really tell much about this aspect of the working. It could be a 'staff and ticket' arrangement or - bearing in mind that tramway legislation applied to the W&U - a tram-style operation where one train simply followed another at safe stopping distance. There were after all, intermediate depots with phones where a tram could be held to await another one crossing it. There does not seem to have been a single line staff or any token system, though. (CJL) 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I suspect many have thought of modelling W&U by way of the proposed extension to Welney. I did many decades ago and even went as far as B&B at Wisbech (lovely place) to spend a whole day getting passed the depot sites and on to Welney bridge. At Welney I took many photos of possible terminal sites especially to tranship coal to the Fenland pumping stations. In not having a RTR J70 model I deleted all the views long before Model Rail announced its intent! Now if only I had them as my illustrated table-top shows the incorrect perspective of 'Boyces Bridge' which is best overcome by the Welney extension!!! Stewart is quite right in divorcing both first and second generation passenger tramways from the equation. Who wants to string blue lamps along so many miles of rural single track!!! Even the multi-purpose national Belgian Vicinal at its peak had very expensive ways to protect its passengers!!! As Chris says even reading the many books on W&U there does not appear to have been the usual railway practice of staff/token operation mentioned. Each day the line's operation seem to be determined at Wisbech East according to the timetable, vans/wagons available and traffic on offer. Fortunately there are the timetables published therein from virtually start to finish of the W&U. Prior to 1928, the safety of the passenger service was paramount and as Chris points out the depots were in telephone contact with Wisbech and each other. Passing of passenger and freight trains then appears to have been the principal purpose at Boyces Bridge as shown in the timetables. Once the passenger service had gone, the safety issue had reduced creating much local freedom within the timetable. The most interesting side to the freight only operation is the shunting of vans/wagons at each of the depots to get those away that needed priority to connect with the individual mainline 'express' overnight services to the markets in the UK. Some timetables did show these connections to help the staff. Even on a model the track capacity limits the length of trains so adding to the enjoyment of managing a layout in accordance with these connections and the timetables in those books. Good job tram locos were short!!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I must admit I am biased towards a model of Welney, as my wife comes from there, and still has family connections in the village! My idea is basically the track plan suggested in the RM(?) a little while back. I've situated it alongside the river bank, for transhipment purposes, behind the (old) wooden village hall and (now demolished) Three Tuns pub. Another family connection for me is that sister-in-law worked in that pub. The local website www.welney.org.uk has lots of local history. I've made lots of progress with a layout so far (not!) - I've thought about it! Nothing too large, portable, set in BR days. I have a K's J70, a MR J70, a Connoisseur Y6, an 04 diesel tram, & a MR Sentinel, along with a pair of D&S coaches a 3d printed brake coach, and plenty of ordinary wagons. I also have an NNK Bristol/ECW railbus, which could be a "might-have-been" modern image train. I just have to get started on the layout.... Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Stewart that sounds an extremely good start. Do not get carried away and put up overhead wires!!! If the line was to have a passenger service today then I would recommend going to the Chinese and offering them the line to demonstrate their hydrogen powered low-floor articulated tram under test for Foshan. No comments please as this aspect is definitely OT!!! All the best, Colin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Stewart, the Welney article was by Ian Futers in RM December 2016 Vol.67 No.794. It included drawings of a standard goods office. Colin. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Finally, Stewart, you fired me into action. I researched the Welney extension again this PM and I can justify my Boyces Bridge track plan as Three Holes and that for Outwell Basin becomes Lakes End. Furthermore you can justify the use of the railbus between Wisbech and Welney as I see the A1101 easily floods! No doubt climate change will increase the number of such incidents so make sure your rails are above the waterline!!! All the best, Colin. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, coline33 said: Finally, Stewart, you fired me into action. I researched the Welney extension again this PM and I can justify my Boyces Bridge track plan as Three Holes and that for Outwell Basin becomes Lakes End. Furthermore you can justify the use of the railbus between Wisbech and Welney as I see the A1101 easily floods! No doubt climate change will increase the number of such incidents so make sure your rails are above the waterline!!! All the best, Colin. Actually, Welney is immediately West of the Welney Wash floodplain, which is where the A1101 gets flooded So the extension to Welney would not take you over it. I've driven through the twisty road between the rivers a number of times when flooded - but wouldn't nowadays. On one occasion, in my Austin A30, I had between 6-9" of water in the car. It came in via the slot in the floor near the driver's door, where the handbrake was. It reached the top of the transmission tunnel, which was (from memory) between 6-9". On another occasion, my wife-to-be travelled to work at Pye in Cambridge, on the works bus, actually a Premier Travel AEC coach. On a day when she was off sick, the coach got stuck and the passengers had to be rescued by tractor. When they eventually went back for the coach to tow it out, there were rats jumping out of the door. Stewart 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coline33 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Stewart, an experience definitely to avoid! I had noted the bus services that have operated on the A1101 so I saw your Bristol/ECW coming to the village's and others' rescue as we have more frequent adverse weather conditions to come! With the next batch of J70s on their way, in goes my order for a third. From photos 68223 seems to have less of the etch to add compared with 68222 and 68225. 68222 has had its skirts cut back to reveal the whole steps and just awaits the finishing of the white framed windows (in open position) plus the 'seat bolts' and works plates while 68225 just needs the 'seat bolts' and open windows. 68223 will be in 'winter' condition with all windows closed but no sheets covering the doors!!! Colin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Wood Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Sorry to sound like a repeating...Broken record, but is there any news on the second group of J70's?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, Norton Wood said: Sorry to sound like a repeating...Broken record, but is there any news on the second group of J70's?? I was told that they were expected in the UK at the back end of last week and at Kernow later this week. However, the siding space in Camborne is currently full of 'Warships'! ........(CJL) 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 All the 'J70s' have now arrived in stock at Kernow. Please be patient if you have one on order. (CJL) 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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