Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T

[Compound2632]

27 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Is there a different Johnson chimney on different locos in the class?

 

It's complicated and I think discussed up-thread. I think I'm right in saying that as built, non-condensing engines had 3'7" chimneys, giving a nominal height of 12'11 13/16" above rail level, whilst condensing engines had 3'1" chimneys, making them 6" shorter overall so as not to foul the Metropolitan Widened Lines loading gauge. 

 

In this case, the rule that the top of the chimney, dome (the top of the curved lip for the Salter valves), and safety valve cover should lie on a straight line, holds for the 3'7" chimney (in fact the top of the dome casing is a whisker below the line). Placing a straight edge up to my monitor, that seems to be the case for the sound-fitted version of 1273, as also for the Buxton photo.

[No Decorum]

10 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

It would be nice if they made a Kirtley Goods or something of that vintage, but there’s probably little market for such a thing. 

With a growing taste for pre-grouping, one might be viable. Judging by the reactions to your suggestion, there certainly is a market but how big? I’d have one. It’s a tender locomotive, so Bachmann might not feel driven to use a coreless motor, in which case, I’d have a Midland one and an LMS one. Manufacturers sometimes seem to have trouble with coupling rods on outside framed locos, though.

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=8L07

Edited August 5, 2020 by No Decorum
Added link, to set pulses racing!

[Poor Old Bruce]

3 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

With a growing taste for pre-grouping, one might be viable. Judging by the reactions to your suggestion, there certainly is a market but how big? I’d have one. It’s a tender locomotive, so Bachmann might not feel driven to use a coreless motor, in which case, I’d have a Midland one and an LMS one. Manufacturers sometimes seem to have trouble with coupling rods on outside framed locos, though.

 

Do the Dukedog and City of Truro have problems?

[No Decorum]

5 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

Do the Dukedog and City of Truro have problems?

I got my Dukedog with some trepidation but it runs beautifully. The trepidation was on account of my City of London, which is a lumpy runner. One of my Hornby 08s has a touch of the DJs about it although others are all right and all my Bachmann 08s run beautifully. It seems to depend on the individual model.

[Poor Old Bruce]

30 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I got my Dukedog with some trepidation but it runs beautifully. The trepidation was on account of my City of London, which is a lumpy runner. One of my Hornby 08s has a touch of the DJs about it although others are all right and all my Bachmann 08s run beautifully. It seems to depend on the individual model.

 

Temporarily forgot about 08s, Kirtley Goods shouldn't be too big a problem then (ignoring the fact that a 'Problem' is an LNWR 2-2-2 but that's another story).

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

Temporarily forgot about 08s, Kirtley Goods shouldn't be too big a problem then (ignoring the fact that a 'Problem' is an LNWR 2-2-2 but that's another story).

 

A Problem oughtn't be a problem for a manufacturer who can make Rocket work!

[MonsalDan]

3 hours ago, No Decorum said:

With a growing taste for pre-grouping, one might be viable. Judging by the reactions to your suggestion, there certainly is a market but how big? I’d have one. It’s a tender locomotive, so Bachmann might not feel driven to use a coreless motor, in which case, I’d have a Midland one and an LMS one. Manufacturers sometimes seem to have trouble with coupling rods on outside framed locos, though.

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=8L07

One of those would be amazing!

Would love them to do a Johnson style smokebox door version for 1532 too in the future!  I hope they've tooled for that.  There is a market for attractive edwardian locomotives.  There are many of us who like that period and many people who just like running a mix of trains that take their fancy.

Edited August 5, 2020 by MonsalDan

[Steamport Southport]

The problem with the Midland is due to standardisation most of the classes were just variants of the same thing and many of the major classes are already done. probably why you don't tend to see much wishlisting.

 

They've also been very well served by the kit manufacturers over the years.

 

What's left? Just off the top of my head

 

2F           0-6-0

700         0-6-0

Spinner  4-2-2

483/2P   4-4-0

3F           0-6-0T

 

And a couple of "they'll never make a model of that"

 

Flatiron  0-6-4T

Lickey Banker 0-10-0

 

 

 

Jason

[Brocp]

3 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem with the Midland is due to standardisation most of the classes were just variants of the same thing and many of the major classes are already done. probably why you don't tend to see much wishlisting.

 

They've also been very well served by the kit manufacturers over the years.

 

What's left? Just off the top of my head

 

2F           0-6-0

700         0-6-0

Spinner  4-2-2

483/2P   4-4-0

3F           0-6-0T

 

And a couple of "they'll never make a model of that"

 

Flatiron  0-6-4T

Lickey Banker 0-10-0

 

 

 

Jason

Upgraded 2P needs to happen for sure, huge hole in rtr for LMS modellers. 

[No Decorum]

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem with the Midland is due to standardisation most of the classes were just variants of the same thing and many of the major classes are already done. probably why you don't tend to see much wishlisting.

 

They've also been very well served by the kit manufacturers over the years.

 

What's left? Just off the top of my head

 

2F           0-6-0

700         0-6-0

Spinner  4-2-2

483/2P   4-4-0

3F           0-6-0T

 

And a couple of "they'll never make a model of that"

 

Flatiron  0-6-4T

Lickey Banker 0-10-0

 

 

 

Jason

Out of all that, a Spinner would be wonderful. Beautiful machines. A Lickey Banker is a very impressive machine and one I would certainly go for.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem with the Midland is due to standardisation most of the classes were just variants of the same thing and many of the major classes are already done. probably why you don't tend to see much wishlisting.

 

By Midland here you have in mind 1920s onwards, maybe unconsciously. Before then the locomotives that became Class 3F presented considerable variety throughout the 1900s and 1920s as they evolved from the Johnson standard goods 0-6-0 bu way of the large round boiler - H-boiler. I must say an original Johnson 0-6-0 would be very tasty - and some survived to BR days as Class 2F engines.

 

A big hole is the 4-4-0s, apart from the 45 Compounds. The Belpaires, Class 3P in LMS days, were a large enough class to be interesting to a manufacturer, I'd have thought - there were 80 of them. Backdating the LMS Standard 2P to a 483 Class superheater rebuild would be good, but again there's the bewildering variety of intermediate round-topped and Belpaire staturated rebuilds of the original Johnson 4-4-0s. There were only ten 999s which spent their days on the Leeds-Carlisle section, so a bit more limited in appeal - though the S&C is a popular modelling subject.

 

Then there's the 2-4-0s, some of which survived well into LMS days.

 

So, quite a variety, some long-lived, others confined to the Edwardian era. The late 19th Century is much simpler!

 

Midland enthusiasts tend to be sober, well-balanced types, which is why you don't see much wishlisting and frothing.

[Steamport Southport]

Not unconsciously. More realistically. I ignored anything which didn't last into late LMS/BR days apart from a couple.

 

 

3P, I've got a GEM one and can't really see one being made RTR. Not perfect but it'll do for me.

 

2-4-0s, I did consider. But felt it might be a bit obscure even for a class that has a preserved engine. Maybe one for a limited edition.

 

 

It's fine making things, but you've got to sell them as well.

 

 

 

Jason

[queensquare]

54 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Midland enthusiasts tend to be sober, well-balanced types, which is why you don't see much wishlisting and frothing.

 

Most of what you list is available in kit form from the likes of London Road so perhaps rather than pointless wishlisting modellers could build something. Just a thought.

 

Jerry

[Steamport Southport]

15 minutes ago, queensquare said:

 

Most of what you list is available in kit form from the likes of London Road so perhaps rather than pointless wishlisting modellers could build something. Just a thought.

 

Jerry

 

That's why I put 

 

Quote

They've also been very well served by the kit manufacturers over the years.

 

 

I was mainly talking about what could appear RTR rather than treading on the toes of small suppliers.

 

But we are in the RTR section and it's not pointless as the manufacturers look in here.

 

 

Jason

Edited August 5, 2020 by Steamport Southport
Predictive text changing words

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, queensquare said:

 

Most of what you list is available in kit form from the likes of London Road so perhaps rather than pointless wishlisting modellers could build something. Just a thought.

 

Jerry

 

But even in 4 mm scale kit form there's currently, to the best of my knowledge, a distinct lack of:

 

5'3"-wheeled small-boilered Johnson 0-6-0 (around 700+ locomotives all told, including M&GN and S&DJR versions, though a great many rebuilt to 3F). These engines can be had (with a little flexibility) in two shades of green, red, blue, yellow, brown (possibly two shades), and varying degrees of black...

 

Any of the Belpaire boilered 4-4-0s - 483 Class, Belpaire, 999 (didn't the GEM kit attempt to be for both of those at once?), Compound. In fact, I think the LRM 1808 Class is the only 4-4-0 available, though a useful one - also doing for M&GN Class C. 

 

I think we're unlikely to see the resurrection of any of the old Alan Gibson kits - Mr Seymour has got his work cut out meeting the demand for wheels.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Compound2632

[Steamport Southport]

Yes. The GEM kit is labelled as 999/3P.

 

The only difference in the kit is the cabside and rear splashers ISTR. One is curved, the other square.

 

 

My point was, I feel that the MR is probably close to exhausted RTR wise. Are they really going to sell thousands of Flatirons, for example? I don't think so.

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Yes. The GEM kit is labelled as 999/3P.

 

The only difference in the kit is the cabside and rear splashers ISTR. One is curved, the other square.

 

I believe it is way out on dimensions for either!. There was a late 60s series of MRN articles by David Jenkinson turning one into a better likeness of a Belpaire, in EM.

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

My point was, I feel that the MR is probably close to exhausted RTR wise. Are they really going to sell thousands of Flatirons, for example? I don't think so.

 

When you look at some of the obscure south-of-the-river stuff that sells like hot cakes, I wouldn't put money on it.

[Poor Old Bruce]

20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The problem with the Midland is due to standardisation most of the classes were just variants of the same thing ...

 

You could also say that about the Great Western but those models seem to sell.

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

You could also say that about the Great Western but those models seem to sell.

 

Not really, the GWR used standard parts but had a lot of different classes with different size boilers, wheels, etc. Eight different 4-6-0s for example.

 

They just looked the same.... 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Invicta]

On 05/08/2020 at 13:00, Steamport Southport said:

What's left? Just off the top of my head

 

2F           0-6-0

700         0-6-0

Spinner  4-2-2

483/2P   4-4-0

3F           0-6-0T

 

And a couple of "they'll never make a model of that"

 

Flatiron  0-6-4T

Lickey Banker 0-10-0

 

 

2F might be the most likely of those- although I'm almost surprised that between Heljan's forays into the diesel-era one-offs, and KR Models picking up the torch for R-T-R oddities with GT3, Fell, Leader etc, that no-one has announced an RTR 'Bertha' to an expectantly-waiting world yet!

 

On 05/08/2020 at 17:12, Compound2632 said:

 

When you look at some of the obscure south-of-the-river stuff that sells like hot cakes, I wouldn't put money on it.

 

I suppose some of the more 'niche' Southern releases (Beattie Well Tank, Adams Radial, 'P', B4 etc) etc are helped by the fact they survived until pretty late in the day on BR compared to something like a Flatiron (last ones withdrawn before WW2?), and examples are on hand in preservation to scan/measure/inspire us to reach for our wallets

Edited August 7, 2020 by Invicta

[Poor Old Bruce]

While we are frothing, don't forget the Deeley 0-4-0 Dock Tank (1907-1966), even if the two batches did have differences.

[Pete the Elaner]

20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

the GWR used standard parts but had a lot of different classes with different size boilers, wheels, etc. Eight different 4-6-0s for example.

 

They just looked the same.... 

 

 

Exactly the same with Midland locos.

All regions seem to sell (apparently..because manufacturers keep producing them) & modellers for each feel that their own region is less well supported than others.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

While we are frothing, don't forget the Deeley 0-4-0 Dock Tank (1907-1966), even if the two batches did have differences.

 

Or even the Johnson ones - two classes, superficially similar but the later one longer. Quite a challenge for a RTR mechanism!

[farren]

How about the Austin 7. Big black freight seem to sell. Yes it could be said it’s too similar to a super D. But stanier8f and WD look similar or MR 3fs and 4fs. Though the down said is Time in service.

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, farren said:

But stanier8f and WD look similar or MR 3fs and 4fs. 

 

Dear me, that proves that there really does only need to be one RTR GWR 4-6-0!