Oxford N7

[Norton Wood]

Crazy isn't it! If they had managed to rebuild all the types at once would have been a lit easier - presumably 69621 is still an N7/GE as it's got it's belpaire box. Although why call it /GE instead of a number?!

 

69621 is round-topped..

 

 

She was the Last N7 built and the last loco to come out of Stratford works...Very sad times but we are lucky to have even at least 1 left. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Norton Wood

[Bucoops]

69621 is round-topped, believe me I have been lucky enough to work on it...

 

IMG_2836.JPG

 

She was the Last N7 built and the last loco to come out of Stratford works...Very sad times but we are lucky to have even at least 1 left. 

 

After I posted that I realised I was talking manure and checked my pics from late last year. You got the quote in before the edit!

 

69621 is an awesome loco - it's such a shame it's not currently running. However - It's not popular as I understand it with those that used to drive and fire N7s in BR times as it's right hand drive and short travel valves.

[Norton Wood]

After I posted that I realised I was talking manure and checked my pics from late last year. You got the quote in before the edit!

 

69621 is an awesome loco - it's such a shame it's not currently running. However - It's not popular as I understand it with those that used to drive and fire N7s in BR times as it's right hand drive and short travel valves.

 

Funny really I know an eX-Fireman (BR) now where I now volunteer. He loved the N7's, he said they were so simple to work on, he said when you got a good driver, the fireman would drive and the driver would check on the fire regularly. As they used to get to let's say Enfiled town, he would go to the coal stage fill the bunker with coal, the driver would fill the fire to the door, at this point the next loco either an N7 or L1 would take over...I know the N7's were smaller than the L1's but it seems to me that the L1 just couldn't replace the N7, I'd like to say because it was a good loco.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Norton Wood

[Downer]

I would also like to pre-order a BR loco, but first I want Oxford to confirm that it will be the round topped boiler version, because originally they told us it wouldn’t be.

[Dunsignalling]

I would also like to pre-order a BR loco, but first I want Oxford to confirm that it will be the round topped boiler version, because originally they told us it wouldn’t be.

See picture in Post # 352

[Downer]

 

See picture in Post # 352

Thanks. I did see the picture, which certainly proves that Oxford can dress up a round-topped boiler sample. I would just like confirmation from Oxford that this is their intended production model.

[Norton Wood]

Thanks. I did see the picture, which certainly proves that Oxford can dress up a round-topped boiler sample. I would just like confirmation from Oxford that this is their intended production model.

 

I should think so, I can understand the initial confusion, I should think that this is the intended samples which will come out 2 Belpaire type N7's and a Round Topped N7. Thinking about it perhaps due to the previous comments on the thread in the early posts, Oxford may have changed which type of N7 they went for in terms of the BR liveried N7. In addition, there have been a few mistakes on their website which after a few weeks had been rectified, an example of which is the number that the BR N7 was going to get from E9621 to 69612. Just a few things I have noticed over the past few months. :-) 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... He loved the N7's, he said they were so simple to work on, ...I know the N7's were smaller than the L1's but it seems to me that the L1 just couldn't replace the N7, I'd like to say because it was a good loco.

The problem with the N7 toward the end of their service life was that train weights were increasing, and the more demanding turns had the boiler working pretty near its limit, so the crew really had to be on top of fire and water management. They were generally liked as machines, a comparison I have heard with the N2 from one of the Hatfield drivers was that while this class was 'a bit of a bruiser', the N7 was quietly competent.

 

As such the significantly larger boiler reserve of the L1 should have been a clear improvement, but while when working well it delivered on this promise, it proved to be 'fragile'. Too often shy steaming (especially in their earlier years) and it would rattle itself to pieces on faster turns; probably the greatest weakness a tendency for the side tanks to be 'worked' into leaking significantly, with the resulting streams of water finding their way into bearings. This class earned the name 'Concrete Mixer' from the mechanically unhappy harsh clonking sounds that they so often exhibited when running.

[Jammy2305]

To anyone hoping for a blue example: Only GER No.1001 carried blue and it had a few detail differences to later batches, including having it's dome positioned further back and a different style of cab roof, meaning it's unlikely we'll ever see it released.

 

James

[locoholic]

To anyone hoping for a blue example: Only GER No.1001 carried blue and it had a few detail differences to later batches, including having it's dome positioned further back and a different style of cab roof, meaning it's unlikely we'll ever see it released.

James

I appreciate your comment, but I'm quite happy with my Hattons Barclays, even though they are apparently too short and have the wrong wheelbase. I could live quite easily with a GER blue N7 that had the dome too far forward and the wrong type of cab roof, just as long as it looked the part. I hope Oxford realise that not everyone is bothered about small details from long ago.

 

Of course, what I would really like is the Liverpool Street pilot that was painted blue in BR days...

[The Stationmaster]

Fair points, but you have been somewhat selective. All the steam-age wagons (except for the Warwell) have been significantly off and/or produced with fake liveries (others do that - doesn't make it right), and this is perpetuated by the latest 5-plank. The GW Toads, well, another inaccurate mess. The Radial is at best redundant given the Hornby option, but I think you overstate its virtues.  I have not looked closely at most versions for accuracy, as I did not ever contemplate buying one, but the EKR livery is an inaccurate mish-mash.  The main point though is that there is no excuse for the wholly egregious Dean Goods.  It has now been partly, but IMHO, not sufficiently, improved, but the original release, the lined version in particular, was a complete travesty.  Past sins can, of course, be forgiven, but it has left me wary of Oxford.  To put this in context, I am wary of the output of three other RTR manufacturers, but none more so than Oxford, based on performance to date.

 

Everyone drops a clanger from time to time.  Bachmann has failed twice with the front end of the Modified Hall, for example. Some fairly recent Hornby models have had some issues - the non-radial handrails on the J15 come to mind, but, then, who is more culpable, Hornby for doing this or Oxford for following suit despite the criticisms of Hornby?  Nevertheless, the latest Bachmann and Hornby stuff is superb - from the humble Peckett to the pre-Grouping Atlantics. Again, compare Oxford's GW Toad to Hornby's new tooling. Oxford can't even mount the steps of their plinth as things are at the moment.

 

But, moving on, I really hope that Oxford turns a corner with the N7.

 

I'd much rather log on to praise Oxford than to bury it, so I am quite excited by the prospect of this model shaping up.  

 

If they get it right, it bodes well.  Dapol, for all its prior experience, is still struggling, IMHO, to gain the necessary standard in 4mm. I hope for the sake of RAILS that they do so with the Terrier.

 

Oxford may yet be the first to pull ahead of the rest of the pack and the N7 might be the horse that comes home for them.  The market post-N7 might look a little different from how it appears now.

 

In the pursuit of excellence, is Oxford, at long last, catching up?

 

I hope so.

 

I think they tend to do much better when they are working fora. commissioner.  While not wholly correct the NRM involvement injected a considerable improvement into the Dean Goods - if they had been involved from start it would no doubt have been a more positive story. Thus with other commissioners I think they will be held to account and kept on course, as seems to have happened with the wagons for Hattons - provided they listen to what they are being asked to do.

[Edwardian]

To anyone hoping for a blue example: Only GER No.1001 carried blue and it had a few detail differences to later batches, including having it's dome positioned further back and a different style of cab roof, meaning it's unlikely we'll ever see it released.

 

James

 

Just so.  I was thinking of buying a second grey one and converting; I don't expect a blue release, and, unless the tooling is changed, which I doubt would be worthwhile, I'd rather not see an inaccurate blue version released.

[locoholic]

. .... I'd rather not see an inaccurate blue version released.

Nobody would force you to buy one! I would love one, as the representation of GER blue (has that been done in RTR since the Grafar N gauge J69?) would probably be far better than anything I could produce and, as I would struggle to lay my hands on a photo of the prototype, I wouldn't know what it should look like anyway. I suspect most potential purchasers would be in the same position as me, too.

[Edwardian]

Sorry, a pretty thing is better than an accurate thing.

 

I'd somehow momentarily forgotten that.

 

What was I thinking.

[Norton Wood]

The problem with the N7 toward the end of their service life was that train weights were increasing, and the more demanding turns had the boiler working pretty near its limit, so the crew really had to be on top of fire and water management. They were generally liked as machines, a comparison I have heard with the N2 from one of the Hatfield drivers was that while this class was 'a bit of a bruiser', the N7 was quietly competent.

 

As such the significantly larger boiler reserve of the L1 should have been a clear improvement, but while when working well it delivered on this promise, it proved to be 'fragile'. Too often shy steaming (especially in their earlier years) and it would rattle itself to pieces on faster turns; probably the greatest weakness a tendency for the side tanks to be 'worked' into leaking significantly, with the resulting streams of water finding their way into bearings. This class earned the name 'Concrete Mixer' from the mechanically unhappy harsh clonking sounds that they so often exhibited when running.

 

Ah, I did not know, that...Very interesting thank you

[locoholic]

Sorry, a pretty thing is better than an accurate thing.

 

I'd somehow momentarily forgotten that.

 

What was I thinking.

Except that, by your own admission, the accurate thing is most unlikely to be made. So your logic dictates that having nothing is better than having a slightly inaccurate model, which is absurd, since it reduces the choice for ignorant, unfussy modellers like me, as well as reducing the potential profit for Oxford, and therefore the likelihood of further prototypes being modelled RTR in the future. Edited May 16, 2018 by locoholic

[Gilwell Park]

The problem with the N7 toward the end of their service life was that train weights were increasing, and the more demanding turns had the boiler working pretty near its limit, so the crew really had to be on top of fire and water management. They were generally liked as machines, a comparison I have heard with the N2 from one of the Hatfield drivers was that while this class was 'a bit of a bruiser', the N7 was quietly competent.

 

As such the significantly larger boiler reserve of the L1 should have been a clear improvement, but while when working well it delivered on this promise, it proved to be 'fragile'. Too often shy steaming (especially in their earlier years) and it would rattle itself to pieces on faster turns; probably the greatest weakness a tendency for the side tanks to be 'worked' into leaking significantly, with the resulting streams of water finding their way into bearings. This class earned the name 'Concrete Mixer' from the mechanically unhappy harsh clonking sounds that they so often exhibited when running.

I also understand that L1 were not popular on the Liverpool St to Chingford/Enfield services as they were a tight fit in the run round loops and their high bunkers made coaling difficult at Wood St & Enfield. Roger.

[Edwardian]

Except that, by your own admission, the accurate thing is most unlikely to be made. So your logic dictates that having nothing is better than having a slightly inaccurate model, which is absurd, since it reduces the choice for ignorant, unfussy modellers like me, as well as reducing the potential profit for Oxford, and therefore the likelihood of further prototypes being modelled RTR in the future.

 

Oh dear.

 

I was about to reply, then I lost the will to live ...

[Bomag]

To anyone hoping for a blue example: Only GER No.1001 carried blue and it had a few detail differences to later batches, including having it's dome positioned further back and a different style of cab roof, meaning it's unlikely we'll ever see it released.

 

James

 

If somebody is willing to chip in I can probably get EARM to paint 69621 blue as GER 999. Oxford can then do an authentic GER blue version without people nit picking minor 'errors'. It's a minor miracle that there is going to be a RTR model in OO so don't start quibbling - however as they have switched from E6921 to 69612 I may go for 1002 in Gray and then get one of 7999/9621/69621 if they get round to it 

[adb968008]

Except that, by your own admission, the accurate thing is most unlikely to be made. So your logic dictates that having nothing is better than having a slightly inaccurate model, which is absurd, since it reduces the choice for ignorant, unfussy modellers like me, as well as reducing the potential profit for Oxford, and therefore the likelihood of further prototypes being modelled RTR in the future.

Like this one, it’s quite rare..

https://www.wrennspecialist.co.uk/wrenn-w2214-0-6-2-lms-red-n2-tank-locomotive-rare/

[locoholic]

Oh dear.

 

I was about to reply, then I lost the will to live ...

Sorry - I missed your cry for help. Is it too late to call an ambulance?

[locoholic]

Like this one, it’s quite rare..https://www.wrennspecialist.co.uk/wrenn-w2214-0-6-2-lms-red-n2-tank-locomotive-rare/

Precisely.

[Edwardian]

Sorry - I missed your cry for help. Is it too late to call an ambulance?

 

I've no interest in locking horns with you - just let it go, there's a good chap.

[Dunsignalling]

Except that, by your own admission, the accurate thing is most unlikely to be made. So your logic dictates that having nothing is better than having a slightly inaccurate model, which is absurd, since it reduces the choice for ignorant, unfussy modellers like me, as well as reducing the potential profit for Oxford, and therefore the likelihood of further prototypes being modelled RTR in the future.

My personal viewpoint is that, so long as a model is accurate in its basic dimensions and shape; anything else is fixable.

 

So, yes, a slightly inaccurate model that I can correct/improve (or even learn to live with) is certainly better than no model at all. 

 

However, in absolute terms it costs no more to make something that is accurate rather than not. The research and/or design stages are where that is decided.

 

Oxford came slightly unstuck with certain aspects of their Adams Radial. Had the never-produced Wrenn model turned out as good, albeit thirty years ago, everyone would have been over the moon. I could, and would, have dealt with everything I didn't like, had Hornby not come up with models lacking those deficiencies.

 

They responded to criticism of the Dean Goods by correcting probably as much as they could without starting again and I suspect that was a wake-up call for them. 

 

The pictures of the N7 earlier in the thread suggests the models will represent a distinct improvement on what we have seen before. The tacit admission that it was daft to only offer a BR version in a form in which very few remained beyond the very early 1950s is an indication that they are listening and learning. 

 

Nobody sets out to make an inaccurate model, the trick is avoiding design errors or spotting them before they become inextricably embedded into the products development.

 

Oxford are new to making railway models but, in another market segment that they only entered comparatively recently,1940s-1960s buses and coaches (they've been doing modern ones a while longer) they frankly wipe the floor with most of the established brands. I therefore see no reason why, having learned the ropes, their trains can't, or won't, be as good as anyone else's.

 

The N7, insofar as we have yet seen it, appears to be a decent stride along that road.

 

John

Edited May 17, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[locoholic]

I've no interest in locking horns with you...

The evidence seems to suggest otherwise!