Estate agent advice

[gismorail]

My advice for the future if you don't secure this particular property would be to always put in your offer direct to the seller, I can speak from experience on this matter as I had two such incidents. In the first instance I put in and offer for a property direct to the estate agent who then notified the seller of a property two doors down the road who was also selling but at a higher price this was just poor communication on behalf of the agent. The second instance was after agreeing a purchase direct with a seller on the second viewing I wrote to the agent to notify them of my offer to which I got a phone call to tell me that it had been rejected. I called round to the property the following day to question the seller who informed me that they had not be contacted by the agent !!!! To cut a long story short the property was removed from the market and a private sale was conducted between myself and the vendor ...... job done and the seller for 2% better off !!!! 

[edcayton]

My son is trying to buy ATM, and the prices are rising faster than they can save, or wage rises. If your vendor wants to move in the same market then yes, their selling price is probably rising and the agent is bound to advise them accordingly.

 

If they don't have a specific property in mind then they are in the same position as you in terms of rising prices and their current house is (presumably) their major asset. If you have made your best offer then, as already stated, your options are to say "best and final offer" and leave it on the table, or give a deadline. It is worth contacting the vendors direct.

 

In either case, keep looking. I'm afraid there are many heartbreaks in the house-buying world and in your position (ie renting) you are falling behind the market. I would think that a lot of us have been in your position and you have my sympathy. Good luck.

 

Ed

 

If the buyers try to make a direct sale then they will be in breach of their contract with the agent, who certainly "introduced" you to the property. They will probably have to pay (at least) the commission and it will jeopardise/delay the sale.

[Silver Sidelines]

In Scotland the seller has to commission a pre sale survey  which amongst other things puts a value on the property.  Over the last couple of years properties in this part of the world do not appear to be selling and are often adverised as being 'so many thousand below valuation'.   At around £500 paying for your own survey makes good sense as it should flush out costs of repairs, modernisastion to bring up to latest energy saving requirements.  Gives you the seller a bargaining tool.

 

Scotland also operates the system whereby offers can be requested and a closing date set.  However that presupposes that there is more than one party interested!  My personal observations of the market here in SW Scotland and Nortth East England is that not a lot is selling and property is remaining advertised for years!

 

As I think others have said take a serious look at what else is on offer - it is a new year and there will be fresh opportunities.

 

Good luck

 

Ray

[Derekl]

I had this problem when buying the house I am now in - I made an offer which was accepted, then the house was taken off the market for vendor's personal reasons so that fell through. A few months later the agent was back - the vendor was willing to sell the house for an additional £7,000. I said no, but that I would stand by my original offer - accepted. You may like to try the hard line.

 

It depends how much other interest there is, but note that agents sometimes tell porkies about that aspect.

 

That said, I did the opposite on sale of a flat - the buyers made an offer which I accepted and then spent the next few months trying to get a few grand off the price on various arguments (the flat was in a substantial Victorian building, so there were opportunities to niggle). I eventually said that they could exchange at the agreed price by 4:00 pm on the day or the place was back on the market (my conveyancing solicitor wasn't too keen on the approach, in passing): exchanged.

 

My advice would be to stick to your guns, but then it is you buying. I also would not be too worried about offending the agent - they tend to have to be fairly thick skinned....

[cromptonnut]

We need to have a survey done as part of the mortgage process - so that should give extra meat to our argument that the estate agent is somewhat overestimating the value of the property.

 

If we don't get this one, there will be somewhere else.  But you can be sure we will keep track of this one and see what it did finally go for.  If ours is the first offer after 18 views since it went on the market last April then I'm really not sure what the agent is playing at - unless he's just playing us - in advising them to hold back.

[Clearwater]

The trick is to make the agent think you'll walk...

 

Implicit within other comments above is how you play surveys etc. I.e. Agree a price and then reduce it based on what you find. However, that can be a dangerous game as once you've started spending the buyer, irrationally, becomes more committed (i.e. Doesn't want to lose the money spend on surveys, fees etc).

 

A buyer tried to jam me on a house sale and I said "no reduction". Once it was clear I meant it, the agent first offered to cut his fee to keep me whole(!) that didn't work so I said house would be back on the market. I gave a 12h deadline (we had been off the market for a couple of months).

 

If I was you, I'd make an offer at the level you're just uncomfortable with (you'll never close otherwise) and then ask agent to confirm if they've spoken to the vendor (I think they're required to by law). When making the offer, stress it's your final offer, you're at the limit of what you can pay etc etc. If you want to be devious, you can always ask the agent for the details of other property they are marketing or mention you're looking at other similar property in the area. If they're any good, they will know what their competitors are also marketing.

 

As others have said, the agents fee will be give or take the same whether the price is + or - 10k (say 2.5% on the difference is relatovley immaterial). Also, if you're planning to live their 20+ years, take the difference in price and divide it by the number of years. Even 20k over 20 years works out at under £20 per week extra. Decide what that's worth to you.

 

David

[Joseph_Pestell]

My son is trying to buy ATM, and the prices are rising faster than they can save, or wage rises. If your vendor wants to move in the same market then yes, their selling price is probably rising and the agent is bound to advise them accordingly.

 

If they don't have a specific property in mind then they are in the same position as you in terms of rising prices and their current house is (presumably) their major asset. If you have made your best offer then, as already stated, your options are to say "best and final offer" and leave it on the table, or give a deadline. It is worth contacting the vendors direct.

 

In either case, keep looking. I'm afraid there are many heartbreaks in the house-buying world and in your position (ie renting) you are falling behind the market. I would think that a lot of us have been in your position and you have my sympathy. Good luck.

 

Ed

 

If the buyers try to make a direct sale then they will be in breach of their contract with the agent, who certainly "introduced" you to the property. They will probably have to pay (at least) the commission and it will jeopardise/delay the sale.

That's true. But if the agent has not passed on the offer (as in Gizmo's example), then the agent has breached the contract first.

[Joseph_Pestell]

We need to have a survey done as part of the mortgage process - so that should give extra meat to our argument that the estate agent is somewhat overestimating the value of the property.

 

If we don't get this one, there will be somewhere else.  But you can be sure we will keep track of this one and see what it did finally go for.  If ours is the first offer after 18 views since it went on the market last April then I'm really not sure what the agent is playing at - unless he's just playing us - in advising them to hold back.

 

A valuation for mortgage purposes is not a survey.

 

But you raise an interesting point. The valuer will know about the price history of the house and it will influence his recommendation to the mortgage company. So you may find yourself having to finance yourself any increase in the price.

[cromptonnut]

A valuation for mortgage purposes is not a survey.

 

But you raise an interesting point. The valuer will know about the price history of the house and it will influence his recommendation to the mortgage company. So you may find yourself having to finance yourself any increase in the price.

 

Not for me it won't.

 

If the valuer says it's worth £220k and we've already offered £225k but the agent wants £230k, then we won't be buying if they won't provide finance.  We're at our limit as it is based on our circumstances which I won't bother you with, and have no desire to pay over the odds for what is, after all, "just another house".

[Clearwater]

You can check price history yourself at nethouseprices.com

 

It's usually a couple of months out of date but that's generally good enough!

[cromptonnut]

You can check price history yourself at nethouseprices.com

 

For this particular one we have in mind...

 

31st January 2007 Property sold for £156,500

30th November 2005 Property sold for £150,000

12th September 2000 Property sold for £95,000

24th November 1999 Property sold for £74,500

[Joseph_Pestell]

Not for me it won't.

 

If the valuer says it's worth £220k and we've already offered £225k but the agent wants £230k, then we won't be buying if they won't provide finance.  We're at our limit as it is based on our circumstances which I won't bother you with, and have no desire to pay over the odds for what is, after all, "just another house".

Well that was my point. Most buyers would be doing the same as you and increasing the price of a house that has not sold does not work well for mortgage finance.

 

On the basis of its past price history and its location (which I am guessing at from the photo), it sounds a bit pricey to me.

[Clearwater]

Thanks - suggest you look for the most recent sales in the area and ideally see if that property sold at the same time as one of the prior sales above. You can then get an idea of what index to apply.

 

As a worked example. If you want to buy 3 acacia avenue (sold Jan 2007 for 150k) and if 5 acacia avenue sold Nov 2016 for 200k and in Jan 2007 for 150k, you could reasonably apply the same multiple. Clearly there is some guess work in doing this but it helps get an idea on reasonableness. This is what the bank's mortgage surveyor will, in part, do

[kevinlms]

My photo, taken from the bedroom window.  A similar shot appears on the estate agent's leaflet.

 

IMG_1209.jpg

 

The proximity of the railway line shouldn't therefore be a surprise to prospective purchasers.

 

We are intending this to be our "rest of our lives" home so selling in the future isn't something that concerns us.

Just curious, you say the house has been on the market for a while, with few offers.

 

The railway line could be a distinct reason. Do you have any idea on what the train frequency is? If it has a series of freight trains, running all night, could well provide a reason why its not selling. If you're prepared for a few trains, perhaps stick to your price.

[Arthur]

 

 

 

Start kickin' some butt.

 

Call the estate agents and withdraw your offer telling them you have had an offer on another property in the next town accepted. It's well within your budget, there's no chain, things are moving quickly.

 

'As a matter of courtesy' call the vendors. Thank them very much for their help and kindness when they showed you round. Tell them how disappointed you are that your offer had been declined but even that was a stretch for you and you've gone for a cheaper house. Because you are not in a chain the new vendors snapped your hand off etc. Wish them well, commiserate with them on what a painfully long process selling a house is. Things for you are moving at a pace. Leave them with the impression that at your originally offered price you would come back...

 

See what happens. You've committed to nothing, you've just ensured that the vendors know of your offer, your budget (it's your absolute max), there's no chain, and there are time constraints. And you've just been polite, who could be offended at that.

 

You can still go back any time and review your offer if you want.

 

.

[hayfield]

The second instance was after agreeing a purchase direct with a seller on the second viewing I wrote to the agent to notify them of my offer to which I got a phone call to tell me that it had been rejected. I called round to the property the following day to question the seller who informed me that they had not be contacted by the agent !!!! To cut a long story short the property was removed from the market and a private sale was conducted between myself and the vendor ...... job done and the seller for 2% better off !!!! 

 

On my previous house after agreeing the sale with the owner, their estate agent phoned me to say they (the estate agents) were not accepting my offer. After a chat with the sellers who had not instructed the estate agents to reject my offer, the agents were told in no uncertain terms my offer was accepted

We need to have a survey done as part of the mortgage process - so that should give extra meat to our argument that the estate agent is somewhat overestimating the value of the property.

 

If we don't get this one, there will be somewhere else.  But you can be sure we will keep track of this one and see what it did finally go for.  If ours is the first offer after 18 views since it went on the market last April then I'm really not sure what the agent is playing at - unless he's just playing us - in advising them to hold back.

 

A valuation by a lender is for mortgage purposes only, will never be in excess of the purchase price agreed and is for the lenders protection not the buyers. On the other hand if a home buyers report has been requested, it will be several pages of (mostly minor) faults, which as you are buying a used item is to be expected. The true value of anything is what it sells for, which could be less or more than a mortgage valuation. In certain instances a premium is paid for location, this also applies in reverse (most folk don't like a railway at the bottom of the garden)

 

The trick is to make the agent think you'll walk...

 

Implicit within other comments above is how you play surveys etc. I.e. Agree a price and then reduce it based on what you find. However, that can be a dangerous game as once you've started spending the buyer, irrationally, becomes more committed (i.e. Doesn't want to lose the money spend on surveys, fees etc).

 

A buyer tried to jam me on a house sale and I said "no reduction". Once it was clear I meant it, the agent first offered to cut his fee to keep me whole(!) that didn't work so I said house would be back on the market. I gave a 12h deadline (we had been off the market for a couple of months).

 

If I was you, I'd make an offer at the level you're just uncomfortable with (you'll never close otherwise) and then ask agent to confirm if they've spoken to the vendor (I think they're required to by law). When making the offer, stress it's your final offer, you're at the limit of what you can pay etc etc. If you want to be devious, you can always ask the agent for the details of other property they are marketing or mention you're looking at other similar property in the area. If they're any good, they will know what their competitors are also marketing.

 

As others have said, the agents fee will be give or take the same whether the price is + or - 10k (say 2.5% on the difference is relatovley immaterial). Also, if you're planning to live their 20+ years, take the difference in price and divide it by the number of years. Even 20k over 20 years works out at under £20 per week extra. Decide what that's worth to you.

 

David

 

When selling my last house I told the agent once a price was agreed if the buyer tried to renegotiate the price I would put it back on the market unless something severe came up on the survey

 

I would talk to the seller and try to find common ground for an agreement 

[Mike Storey]

I have bought and sold 8 houses in my time (I had to move a lot for the railway) and have never met a situation like yours. Sure, I have been gazumped, and I have certainly had buyers trying to lower the price after accepting their offer, but not one where the price has just suddenly gone up. I have used good estate agents and mediocre ones (especially here), but never one that tried to shaft me, AFAIK! Don't be afraid of upsetting anyone - you will never meet them again. The sellers may have highly unrealistic expectations. Agents will try to capitalise on your sense of fair play, and then laugh all the way to the pub.

 

As others have said, make a final offer, leave it on the table and look elsewhere. I would not put on a deadline if you really want it, but that is up to you. If you find somewhere else and commit, they cannot force you to buy the original house. Likewise, if you don't find anywhere else for a while, you have lost nothing.

[chris p bacon]

We see this all the time, it's easy to blame the agent but our experience is that it is the vendor that is usually the one wanting more money.

 

It is very simple, set out your offer in writing, tell them it is a once only offer and that you won't get into any kind of auction, send a copy to the agent and the vendor at the same time and place a time limit of 5 working days on it.  If you are not wedded to the idea of this house then I would move on if they decline, it's quite likely that they have seen a place that has gone up in value and want you to up your offer to cover it. If you do you'll be caught in a spiral of offers and counter offers right until the day of exchange. (I know from experience)

What you must also do in your offer is state what your time frame is so that they know they'll get a sale if they commit to it.

 

I don't trust estate agents at all, but most problems I've seen are the vendor.  But I would say that purchasers can be a right PITA too, I have in Little Paxton refused to sell a house to a couple as they bu**ered me about too much and wasted time. They did eventually get the house but I made them pay £25k more for it including an upfront deposit as I didn't trust them one bit. ( I might look a git but they were trying to evade paying tax so I reported them to POCA)

[Silver Sidelines]

A 'Home Report' as required by law in Scotland is a bit more than 'several pages' and the ones I have seen have been both informative and useful.

On the other hand if a home buyers report has been requested, it will be several pages of (mostly minor) faults, which as you are buying a used item is to be expected. ..

Regards

 

Ray

[Nearholmer]

Unless you have a jolly good indication that a significantly below locally typical offer might stick .........

 

Decide the maximum that you are willing to pay. Subtract a bit to allow wriggle-room in negotiation. Make that your offer.

 

Put the offer in writing, copy direct to the current owners (assuming they live there ...... might be harder to access them if they don't).

 

Everyone likes to feel they've "done well" in a transaction, so don't expect your first offer to be accepted, be prepared to be "talked-up" a little bit, but not past the maximum you decided at the outset.

 

If they won't accept less than or equal to your pre-decided maximum, walk away - you set it as a maximum for a good reason.

 

They may come running after you. If they don't, you still have the money in your pocket.

 

We've had very variable experience of estate agents, and the ones I liked least were the "tempt people in with a low advertised price, then try to talk it up" merchants.

 

K

[Joseph_Pestell]

A 'Home Report' as required by law in Scotland is a bit more than 'several pages' and the ones I have seen have been both informative and useful.

Regards

 

Ray

 

And a similarly useful arrangement was promised here in England until  the Govt ran scared of the Daily Mail headline writers.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

We are intending this to be our "rest of our lives" home so selling in the future isn't something that concerns us.

Been there, done that, about three houses ago.

 

Nowadays railway lines and busy roads can be a real turn-off for buyers.

[tomparryharry]

When you make an offer, and it's accepted, stick to your guns.

 

The acceptance of offer makes a strong case.

 

Get the name of the agent who deals with that sale, or, the responsible person in that office. Doreen who makes the tea is not your target.

 

If the vendor, or agent, withdraws from the accepted offer, get a response in writing, which explains why the accepted offer has been withdrawn. Deliver this request in person, to the person intended

 

Don't do all of your buying work over the e-mail, or phone. Looking into a persons eye can sometimes unsettle the devious. They know you're serious, and you're not liable to back down. Telling the agent that the money is available is fine, but don't ever tell them any more.

 

hard as it may, be prepared to walk away.

 

Ian

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Land Registry has a page for the UK House Price Index, where you can customise by area, house type and date. This may give you an indication of what the price should be relative to previous sales.

 

When we sold my parents' flat just over a year ago the price we got was about 5% below what the highest agent valuation was but 10% above the lowest so there are wild fluctuations in what even the local agents think.

[jonny777]

Not for me it won't.

 

If the valuer says it's worth £220k and we've already offered £225k but the agent wants £230k, then we won't be buying if they won't provide finance.  We're at our limit as it is based on our circumstances which I won't bother you with, and have no desire to pay over the odds for what is, after all, "just another house".

 

Hmmmm...

 

If I were in your shoes, I would do absolutely nothing.

 

You have made your offer, and it has been declined. Your offer seems fair to me, especially as the vendors have already lowered the price due (presumably) to lack of interest from potential buyers.

 

Play the poker face, and make them sweat.

 

To make any further moves would only confirm your enthusiasm for the property, which is more or less admitting that you will stump up the extra in the end.

Don't get emotionally involved in the property, i.e. don't imagine yourself living there already; because if you do financial logic will evaporate.

 

The vendors must know that your 'no chain' status is just what they are looking for. They must also know that any offer would be around 5% below the original asking price, so yours should not be a shock.

 

In these situations, let them blink first.